Would you if you could?... move to Europe, that is.
 

If finances, health, family matters, etc., were not prohibitive, would you strongly consider moving to Europe?

I definitely would, and I will give it more thought the closer I get to retirement (5 years or so). Of course, this assumes my investments retain some value, or one of my kids strikes it rich and decides to be generous to the old man and lady.

Yes. But I would never give up my U.S. citizenship. My dream would be six months in France, six months at home in the US.

In a heartbeat. In fact, I'm looking for someone to help me evaluate the free castles on the Rhine. (Taxes, regulations, etc.)

"I definitely would, and I will give it more thought the closer I get to retirement (5 years or so). Of course, this assumes my investments retain some value, or one of my kids strikes it rich and decides to be generous to the old man and lady."

And assuming of course that you either have an EU passport or can get a visa.

As someone who has lived here for going on two years, I will say that... it isn't that different. At least on a day to day level, you still find much of your time is devoted to going about your business. In many ways, for much of your day, you could really be almost anywhere.

To that end, I would suggest you think about WHY you want to move to Europe. And WHERE in Europe you want to move. Do you want to move to Paris because of something only Paris offers, or is it that you want to move to a world-class city, and New York would do?

Not suggesting one shouldn't do it. Heck, it didn't take much convincing for me to come, and I'm not exactly itching to leave. But, it isn't exactly the sea-change from the US that I had perhaps thought it might be.

Yup, hubby and I (in our early 30's) sold our house in Vancouver, Canada and moved to London last year. I have my british and canadian citizenship (thanks dad!) so it was no problem for us at all. And we LOVE it!

Great question and one I've debated with myself, so to speak. I hope to travel there more often when/if I retire. However, I am concerned the allure of Europe would lessen if I lived there or could travel there more often. Indeed, anecdotal comments I have heard from some who have worked abroad have often been surprisingly unenthusiastic.

I did.

I don't need to.

I've spent many a happy hour trolling French real estate websites, but two things hold me back from moving to Europe (money also, but NoleNomad told us to set finances aside).

For one thing, French libraries don't have much in English and I read a ton, for which I depend on libraries.

Also we wouldn't be part of civic life there the way we can be here.

Oh, one final reason--I'm married to The Anchor. He's not budging.

Also, realistically, it is unlikely I would be able to live/stay near city-centers such as I do when I travel. I suspect suburbs and small towns, whether European or US, have some of the same drawbacks. (Sorry if I'm being to literal. I told you I've thought about this).

Yes. That's why I bought a house in France 17 years ago. It's only a matter of time before I live there full-time. And I do have dual citizenship, so that's not an issue. Health care will probably be the biggest challenge.

And I do agree it's not THAT different, based on my having spent many months there already. Only major difference for me is that in France I'll be living a rural life, as opposed to a city life, and I know I'll need an urban fix now and again.

Hi all,

Yes I would, I am, I am trying to. My condo has been for sale since March, and when it sells, I'm off to settle in Bavaria.

I'm not married, no children, parents have already passed. I have military health insurance and a military pension - I can and I will (now if only someone would buy this place!!).

s

Reversing the question - would I move to the US? No, not even if money, visas health insurances etc were not a problem. I love the US and the people there but
having moved away from my native country once I would not do it again.
It is surprisingly hard to start over, even more so when you are older.
Think about the social network you now have, and try and imagine building up a network like that again, in a country where you may not speak the language well. It is hard to form deep friendships in a foreign language.
Think about your children and grandchildren. With the rising cost of oil it will not be easy for them to come to you or you to go to them. Now I know this is equally true within the US if one of you lives in NY and the other in say LA, but there is not an ocean between you. Do you want to miss the gift that grandchildren are, miss the enjoyment they bring, not watch them grow up?
As travelgourmet says, life here in Europe, apart from the language, is not so different to the US.
Better maybe to travel for three months a year in Europe, so you don't need a visa, than to move, assuming transatlantic travel is still affordable then.

Sure - I lived there for a short time when I was young.
Ideally I would like to spend 6 months of the year in Europe and 6 months in Canada (my home).

Oh, absolutely. We are planning for it. We will be able to retire there very well before the age of 50. Our ideal would be to live on the coast of BC for half the year (we still have family in Canada) and live in Europe (we are looking at Wales, Scotland and Croatia) half the year if we can work it out.

We are at the point that whenever we purchase something we ask ourselves whether it would be somethng we would take to Europe with us. :)

OK, let me take this thread in a bit different direction...

I would love to move to the south of France. Small, small town or semi-rural.

I have a government pension and health care provided. What type of money would it take to buy a small place, something humble? Any ideas on websites where I can search for these properties?

How does health care work when you have BCBS from the USA, but choose to live in France?

I would love to spend a couple of years living in Europe (probably several different places), but permanently, no. I don't live in one of the world's garden spots, but it is home and always will be.

No. Absolutely NOT! I was born in London and I will never return to live in Europe.

I just couldn't imagine NOT living in the USA.

Thin

For those of you who want to move to Europe (like myself) do you feel an attachment to where you are now? The only attachment I have is to my family and I already live several hours from them all, anyway. We also do not have children which definitely makes a huge difference. Other than family I have zero attachment here. I could pick up and move tomorrow without trouble.

When I get to certain places in Europe I feel more rooted and at home than I do here. I lived in Glasgow for nearly a year so really have a good idea of what living overseas is like. Now I would not live in a city but on the outskirts of a small village in a fairly isolated region.

No, but I'd love to live there temporarily--say a year or so.

The "south of France" is HUGE. Do you have any idea where in the south of France you might like to be? That would be a MAJOR factor in the cost of property.

That said, as a general rule property in the "south of France" is expensive, particularly now with the tanking dollar. You can check prices by going to any number of French real estate sites. A good one is Particulier à Particulier.

Your BCBS is absolutely worthless outside the USA.

Those of you who dream of retiring in Europe should read Christina Stead's "The Little Hotel."

It is about ex-pats and refugees living in a pension in Switzerland after WWII. A major part of the novel deals with bored retirees with too much time on their hands and very little to do. Many of them also run out of money.

Thin

It's becoming a lot easier to imagine not living in the USA IMO (no offense to those who disagree) these days....

question for Swanday..where are you planning to use that military health care in Bavaria????

We've actually considered moving to Europe on several occasions but for a variety of reasons not listed by the OP have chosen not to do so.

If I retired to a Swiss pension, I'd be bored out of my skull, too, and would probably run out of money.

@StCirq,

I would prefer the area in the south of France which is the least expensive. Have you a recommendation?

Thanks.

Yes, you should still be able to find a nice little ruin in the Cévennes or Lozère for a song.

As a homemaker I consider myself retired already and am only 39. I cannot be bored - I do not ever recall being bored in my life. I have far too many hobbies and interests.

When we move to Europe in a few years we plan to do a lot of traveling, gardening, and continue our current hobbies (cooking especially!). How is it possible for a person to be bored??? :))

We have known we'd move to Europe for several years and so have been saving and investing smartly for our future. We would not go if we did not know we would have enough financially and will not go until we do. Both my husband and I have always saved since we were kids so have been doing well throughout our lives - not just recently. :)

And we can hardly wait!

Thanks to all for the many thought-provoking responses.

As far as some mentioned re: difficulty in adjusting socially, you (and anyone contemplating such a move) might enjoy reading actor Michael Tucker's "Living in a Foreign Language: A Memoir of Food, Wine, and Love in Italy." It's true that he and his wife Jill were/are more financially secure than many of us, but I think that played a minor role in their ability to rapidly make new friends and adapt to the Italian way of life. Check it out... it's an enjoyable read (IMHO).

I would love to spend two to five years in Europe or a series of two year stints working in different parts of Europe.

This is such a sweeping question, and so dependent on individual experiences and preferences. I moved to Europe years ago, first to do postgraduate studies, then stayed on for a number of additional years as a university teacher. My experiences very much echo some comments previously made, to wit:

<i>…As someone who has lived here for going on two years, I will say that... it isn't that different. At least on a day to day level, you still find much of your time is devoted to going about your business. In many ways, for much of your day, you could really be almost anywhere.

…I am concerned the allure of Europe would lessen if I lived there or could travel there more often. Indeed, anecdotal comments I have heard from some who have worked abroad have often been surprisingly unenthusiastic.

…Also we wouldn't be part of civic life there the way we can be here.</i>

Among the issues that one should consider are location, vocation, communication, and duration.

Location is a big key - cost of living, climate, access to other places, diversity of the local community, hospitality or the lack of it among the locals, etc.

Vocation is self-evident. How will you live and will you live like you want to? For non-European passport holders, recourse to public social and health services is not guaranteed in all countries.

Communication doesn't just mean language; it includes seeing or being with people back home, with understanding enough of the local culture to enter into the local world and be effective. My favorite story doesn't even involve a long migration, just a move within a country. A friend's father-in-law and mother-in-law moved from one part of the Scottish Highlands to another during the early days of World War II. I was visiting the area and wanted to visit them one time in the 1980s. I was staying at a nearby hotel and was asked by a geezer in the bar why I was there (it's rather out-of-the-way.) I said I was visiting my friend's in-laws. He asked who they were and I said their name. He didn’t know the name (and this is a tiny place) so I told him where their house was. &quot;Oh,&quot; he said, &quot;The new people up at Invershin.&quot; One can be an outsider for a long time in parts of Europe.

Duration is the last thing. Do you want to immigrate or spend &quot;a few years?&quot; Because if the former, then you need to dive deeply into the above, while if it's for a short time-certain, you may keep the mindset of (and be perceived as) tourists rather than residents.

When you come home you'll need to engage in all sorts of re-entry issues, banal things like credit and work history, under-funded social security or pension schemes, and more importantly, friends, networks, and family that have moved on with their lives and may not be all that interested in hearing about your big adventures or how they do it better in (country) than here.

Which is not to suggest it's a bad idea. Personally, my life was hugely enriched by my years living in Europe. But IMO gimlet eyes are better than starry ones when planning such moves.

For Dukey --

There are US Army/NATO clinics around Garmisch. But I don't really count on using them. Rather, I would use the German health system and get reimbursed by Champus, as I am now. I think the paperwork runs through the Consulate.

s

I married an EU Citizen. German.
He's a registered alien here in the US and is still working steadily but, is starting to murmur about retiring and returning to live in the EU. France comes up A LOT in our conversations. I need to check this out, but as his American Wife, we wonder (and since its only murmurs) how that would work. Would I only be able to live in the EU for 90 days as a visitor? That would sorta be creepy. Would his German pensions, etc., allow us both to live in the European healthcare system? My personal big question.

So to answer the OP questions, yes. If I could, I would.

Never.

Great to visit - and I will forever. But not to live.

Too dificult for an American to be truly accepted, too expensive to live well - and you just can't replace New York.

&gt;Would his German pensions, etc., allow us both to live in the European healthcare system? My personal big question.

Yes, that's a fact.

I absolutely feel an attachment to where I live now and, surprisingly, it's the first time in my life I've felt an attachment to living anywhere. It's one of the reasons I felt so confident I could make the move out of America. I'd lived in a number of places in the States, and Europe once before, and while I enjoyed -- even loved -- many of the places in the U.S. I'd lived, I never missed them when I moved someplace else.

So I was surprised when, after I'd moved to Italy, I can back for an extended visit, and I instantly missed being in Italy, its people, its daily experience and quirks. And I felt a vague distate for the American way of living (although I might have felt differently if I had been someplace other than New York, which I used to be quite happy in).

Also, please remember: Those of us who've moved to Europe haven't stopped traveling. One of the reasons I live where I do in Italy is that I find it easy to go from there to London, Athens, Paris, the Netherlands, etc. and other parts of Italy. I'm even mulling a trip to India, a place I never planned to see while living in the States because I'm not good with long plane flights.

I'm surprised I like living in Italy as much as I do. There is not a single bit of American or non-Italian food I miss (I thought I would). My friends are eager to visit me there (although the weak dollar makes that harder than we'd wish).

I share Europe's love of Obama. About the only thing I think I'm missing is new release American movies.

&quot;Too dificult for an American to be truly accepted, too expensive to live well - and you just can't replace New York.&quot;

As someone born in New York City, who lived in the city most of my adult life and had a successful career there, I feel I can categorically say that has not been my experience moving to Italy. It's true, in a flat, literal-minded way, that one &quot;can't replace New York&quot; -- or California, or London, or Cenova (a pinspot of a town in Liguria) or any fascinating place.

But one of the surprises of my life was to discover there were better places to live than New York. For me.

Of course, feeling at home and loved in someplace other than America is very much a matter of personality and spirit -- which nytraveler doesn't seem to get. I'm sure nytraveler would never feel truly accepted if he/she left America, but he/she only imagines that is because of other people, not something he/she is lugging around as a traveler.

Oh -- and &quot;too expensive to live well&quot;--??


I live on a hillside with a fantastic view, the sea at my feet, incomparably fresh food to eat.

I rent 1400 square feet of totally FURNISHED living space, right down to the plates and corkscrews (and it is nice, not junky, stuff), all for 20 percent of what I would pay for comparable space in Manhattan, with new view. I am surrounded by fruits, vegetables, birds, pets and livestock, but within 30 minutes I can be at a major airport and the heart of international city.

I can walk to the train, I can walk to the bus, I can walk to no less than six different bakeries, two differernt markets, 3 fish stores, one butcher, etc etc -- and every Wednesday morning there is a fresh air market that sales everything under the sun -- clothes, rugs, art supplies, etc.

Wine is 3 euros a bottle. Olive oil is peanuts.

I feel rich. I am rich. And my income hasn't gone up and the dollar has gone down.

It's not for everybody, of course. But the idea that &quot;you can't live as well&quot; or &quot;you'll never be accepted&quot; or &quot;it's not as great as living in New York City&quot; is all in one's head.

@zeppole,

Great point of view! May I ask where you live? You give me inspiration, both academically and financially!

Any chance you might contact me off the forum at dwzemens AT comcast DOT net?

My answer is an unequivocal &quot;Yes.&quot; My husband and I have talked about it quite a bit. We just don't know where to start. Zeppole, how did you get started?