Just saw a program called Tartan TV (Scots program for Americans) that interviewed several guys on a Scottish NFL team called the Scottish Claymores. :P They play Berlin next.

Must have been an old show - the Scottish Claymores went under years ago. "NFL Europe" bombed everywhere except Germany where it hung on for a while, I believe the whole league got wrapped up last year.

jamikins - I am so glad things are working so well for you. Much of the time we actually want to sell everything we have and go. The other times we think we want to be financially ready to retire there and travel. We just know we ARE going to do it. Just a matter of when.

We are considering some tiny and remote villages - hamlets, actually. We are looking in the Borders region in Scotland, Northumberland and the Dales/Moors, and northern Wales. I have a list and as far as I know they are little known or touristed. I'll see if I can find it.

How often were you over before you decided? What type of research did you do prior to moving? Do you think you will ever return to Canada?

USNR:

Do you think so? We have a similar problem in Switzerland but the Turks and Ex-Yugos that are here arrived 20 years ago or are second generation. I think if we can get through the next few years without much strife, the problem will eventually disappear through time-enhanced intergration.

Perhaps that's just wishful thinking.

"integration"

travel,

We had been to London two times before we moved, and we have some friends who live here so we kind of had a network already. Plus I used to work for one of the big 4 accounting firms and they helped with all the moving arrangements, setting up of bank accounts, relocation specialist etc. We were lucky to have all of that support.

As for research we used the internet alot www.livinginlondon.org is a good sight. We also read a few books that the relocation specialist sent us about looking for work etc for my hubby.

We are loving it every day and I cant imagine going back to Canada right now. I am currently in Jersey working, which is one of the Channel Islands off the coast of France. Its a beautiful sunny day, and my hubby came down for the weekend. Life is good.

yes I would because I'm not a narrow minded idiot.

I was favoured by destiny.

jamikins, I am SO happy for you! Life sounds wonderful and I am sure it will continue. It is intriguing that you are not interested in returning to Canada right now - I honestly think I would feel the same. We moved recently several hours from family and are making it work - it is sort of weaning us for the next bigger step!

Everything we do we have moving in mind.

Thanks for the link - I will certainly be looking into this! :)

Thanks travel, we are pretty happy too :) My parents on the other hand...hahahaha

btw, the link is www.livinginlondon.net

Good luck with your planning!

Definately 6 months here and 6 months in Italy if I could have my dream life :-)

Travelgourmet, that wouldn't necessarily be the case in the UK, where most shops are now open on Sundays and you could quite easily do your food shopping then if you wished. And although many shops on the continent are not open all weekend, that is to some extent compensated for by later opening hours in the evenings in the week.

RM67: Yes, it wouldn't be as much the case in the UK, or even across the Øresund in Sweden. But much of Europe still has limited Sunday hours (Germany, for instance) and evening hours can be in short supply, as well. In those countries, I think it can be a challenge for people to get done what they need to get done on a daily basis.

>The tensions building will some day reach an explosion point.

The Turkification of Germany does not differ at all from the Italian immigration into the USA at the turn of the 19th/20th centuries.

Thanks, jamikins. Our parents are not totally pleased with the idea, either, as they are in their 60s and not in perfect health. That does concern me, of course. Perhaps we'll do the 6 months in Canada and 6 months in Europe thing. Either way, we are doing it! :)

Travelgourmet...well said, "regimented time". I know you now live in KBH and I lived there the entire summer months from 1973-1993 and then didn't go for 10 years and went back for visits starting 2003. As for KBH...I was always on regimented time. I would go to school most of the day to learn Danish although I didn't have to, but I believe in studying the language of a country. Then by the time I got out of school and had lots of errands to to it was getting late and I knew I had to run around like a chicken with my head cut off to get to the market...etc before it closed around 5PM. Here in the states, I go to Whole Foods and usually do my shopping at 9:30PM.
Sometimes, I would try to rush into Illums on stroget, about less than 10 minutes before closing and the doors would already be closed and no one could come in. Not to mention nearly everything closed on Sunday and open until around 2PM on Saturdays.And don't come back from a long trip on a weekend and need to grocery shop...forget about it...wait until Monday to get anything done. So, I have a lot more free time here at home since I don't have to spend my time shopping when everyone else is shopping and doing other needed things. Happy Travels!

My parents on the other hand...hahahaha

My parents were a bit worried when I went to the US.
At the time, I was living on the Welsh coast and I pointed out that it took me just over six hours by train to visit them.
I pointed out that it would take about the same time by plane from the US.
Of course, nowadays, it's easy to keep in touch via the Internet.

Yes, if I could I would move to Paris in a heartbeat.

I moved from a suburb of New York City 7 years ago - when both parents were passed - and I used to commute to and occasionally live in NYC - which I dont miss one bit - nor the cold and snow - although I always thought I would miss the mountains where I was born and lived all my life - nope - I find I dont miss that either. And although it was a small town where you knew everyone, as the influx of city people came, we "natives" moved out- so nothing to miss there.

@Zeppole,

Funny that you mention moving to Liguria - I have been looking at that area (on the map) for a few months, and intend to make a trip to Nice in the Fall and explore from there. I used to speak Italian and find it comes back, not very gramatically, but well enough to get by when I have others to speak with - on the other hand I find French a very difficult language for me.

For a few years I have been researching moving to Europe - I love Paris, but buying/even renting where I would want to live is out of the question financially with our dollar in the tank.

I had heard that if you can show your parents or grandparents were born in an EU country, you can get EU citizenship - dual citizenship which would allow you to move anywhere in an EU country, and at least be able to work at something, if you chose to.

But then researching the taxes and health care situation and so on for a permanent full time move - changed my mind.

I now think it would be more practical to keep my little villa in Florida (which you cant sell now anyway - nothing is selling) and look to rent for 3 months in France or Italy late summer into fall to get away from the hurricanes also. Seems like the best of both worlds.

Zeppole's area seems ideal - able to pick up and travel to Greece, or Paris, and visit other places by train or inexpensive internal European airlines.

Late night shopping is not uncommon in the UK.

I was amused to hear a supermarket manager describing his late night customers.
He said that you first got shift workers doing a bit of shopping on the way home, but around midnight you got couples with young babies.
He reckoned that the parents thought that if the little perisher was keeping them awake, they might as well go and get their groceries.

You can obtain an Irish passport based on near ancestry (or could in the 1990s, haven't checked since then) but I believe this still varies from counry to country. However, once you have established citizenship in any EU country and hold that passport, it's much easier to move around or re-locate.

However, we have found that we are not eligible for all reciprocal benefits because while husband is a UK citizen, he has not been resident in the UK the last three years and thus doesn't benefit from health care reciprocity with France, for instance.

I would do it, as NoleNomad says, if cost, health care, family, etc weren't an issue. Realistically, I've been thinking about doing the big move after I retire (still at least 15 years away!), and only after my parents have moved on to the big hotel in the sky.

I figure if I move there when I'm still in my 50's, I can enjoy life, maybe get some kind of private teaching job, do some playing (I'm a musician), and see more of Europe. Then, when my joints give out, maybe move back to the states & hang out with my US friends until my time is up. Sound like a plan, or am I being absolutely crazy? :-!

Hi Robespierre

I do agree to living in an old authentic Castle in France.
The Castle Hattonchatel Chateau in Lorraine would be a dream come through, owned by www.Ritz-Resorts.com

Firenze in a heartbeat. Been that wa since '95; no reason to change my mind

I would move to France - either near Paris or Strasbourg for reasons possibly different than those listed in other replies. I was born in France many years ago, have returned a number of times as a child to visit family. Had a 25 year absence, then went back 2 years ago. My reasons vary, one would be that I was raised with French influences - eat pizza with a knife and fork for one. My impression of France might be skewed as well, since it was always vacation time when visiting - but I did notice from my family there that material things are so low on the list - family and friends are very high. Also, there doesn't seem to be a need to be loud or boisterous or to prove your masculinity, a higher sense of decency seems to prevail. I also have the sense that the materialistic influences from my children's peers and advertising would be much less in France/Europe - again, this is my observation from the short visits there.

Here I see so many trashy yards - trash lying around - I don't remember seeing that in France - could be the areas we were in. I like the availability of transportation - my grandparents never owned a car and they got a long fine - but they never traveled much either. The historic charm of many houses and buildings, very old, interesting styles - they just don't exist here - or at least in Southern California. Only visited in summer - no idea what it is like in winter - but when I visited 2 years ago it was in April - it was still cold outside, but inside I was so warm - warmer than in my house in winter here in So. Cal.

We have been living in Switzerland for 18 months. Yes, we jumped at the opportunity. We're glad we did. Every day is not a bed of roses. There are lonely times and lots of things we miss - many of them named here - food, friends, civic involvement, feeling integrated. The travel and the opening up of our world views is priceless. My mind is expanding at a time when for most of my peers it is contracting. I miss my job and the sense of purpose I had there, but I'm also happy to have these other experiences which are not so structured and require a lot of self discipline.

I have always liked moving about, but as I get older, I am beginning to see that my friendships are more important to me and less replaceable than they were when I was young. Also, I see that one day my children will live elsewhere, and I know I'll want to see them and my future grandchildren more than twice a year.

As Btilke said, some places are easier than others to move to. I love France and would probably jump at the chance to have a home there - my daughter teases me that she'll be visiting me as an old lady living there someday. Italy, Germany, Switzerland, Spain just don't call to me in the same way, although they have their charms. I find it fascinating how people are drawn to one country/region over another. Of course, I learned a number of years ago in the US, that I was a New Englander and would never head south.

I don't know what the future will hold, but we are planning to retire in our beach home in the US for at least 6 months of the year. The other 6 months are still up in the air. Perhaps Europe, perhaps near wherever our children end up.

Interesting thread.

If you can do it, I urge you to go and try another country. The world is so much bigger than your own back yard. And, contrary to the literary work, you can always go home again.

gruezi

Hello gruezi, I so agree that "the world is so much bigger than your own backyard".

But I disagree with "you can always go home again". I say that as someone who has lived in the SF/Bay Area my entire life and in my opinion nothing is the same. Not Oakland, not Berkeley, not San Francisco etc. Nope, you cannot go home again IF that saying means that you can go home and find the same "home". I am homesick for what once once but I don't let it bother me as I accept reality. And maybe that is why when I am on a trip I don't get homesick because what I think of as "home" has so drastically changed there is no way to go "home". I don't know if what I have conveyed makes sense but I hope it does.

Woulds and AM!Me , my cat and my art supplies leave Aug. 6th for Florence. Don't know if I'm more excited or nervous. Have always wanted to live in Europe for a bit at least so I figured why not now.(besides the crappy exchange rate)

LoveItaly,

I know exactly what you are saying...and in this case what I meant is that if the move doesn't work out you don't have to stay in Europe.

In terms of going home again, I already feel going back to my little CT town will present some problems for me and for my youngest who will still be in school. It's different, we're different, friends move on, job opportunities change. Now that the return is on the horizon, I have lots of things to consider and not all of them are simple and necessarily positive.

We wish we could stay in Europe until my daughter finishes high school because that will make her life easier. I will have to face the transition back at one time or another and my big concern is maintaining my nurse license as I want to return to work of some sort in my field.

We kept our home in CT, and sometimes I wonder if it might not just be easier to go to a new town and start all over again from scratch.

Another adventure ahead of us I guess.

I'm wondering how Grcxx is making out in Texas.

gruezi

There is a little scene in <i>The Edge of Heaven</i> between a German bookstore owner in Istanbul and a Turk (to simplify his background) that is absolutely relevant to the discussion. But the movie is much more than that.

Gruezi;

I seem to be following you around on the net. I have lived in quite a few places, the South of England, Boston, Cleveland, San Francisco, San Diego, Santa Fe, Albuquerque, London twice, now Geneva on the French side.

One of the articles I came across over the years was one on the fact that for the very reasons you mention it is actually HARDER to move back to where ever we came from than it was to leave. The culture shock is greater going 'home' than leaving was because you don't expect it. Plus you will have changed in ways that you don't even realize now from your exposure/interaction with your new environment.

We leave and our memories stop, but the world goes on some times so quickly as the person in San Francisco mentions that even if you were there it would be unrecognizable.

There are still plenty of great places in the States. Half a dozen still only have one area code. But even New Mexico now appears to have two since we left in 2005. I got out just in time.

We always planned to leave the US, it took us five years. But London was frenetic, wildly expensive and unpleasant. Great place to visit not so much to live.

London is actually the same size in area as Albuquerque, 20 miles across, but it takes hours to cross London no matter what form of transport you use. So we started looking around the French side of Geneva on the theory that we would get the benefits of Geneva without the expense. A house here is twice the size of what you can get in Suisse for the money. We are only four km from the border. 30 minutes from the airport. But our village only has one traffic light and four bakeries. We live 300 meters above Lake Geneva on the front slope of the French Alps so have a view of the lake and the Alps, Juras etc.

Every day either driving around or looking out the windows up at the Alps or the lake we still pinch ourselves and say how lucky we are to live here.

I agree with Mike Webber and invite him to move back to France. The folks that are complaining about getting to stores are missing the point. People in France know that stores are closed for lunch, seriously. Why? Because they go home for lunch to eat with their families. On Sundays stores are closed and there are no trucks on the roads and people spend them with their families, not shopping. That said many grocery stores are open Sunday mornings. They are jammed you can't get in, no parking.

The world is getting smaller by the minute. The world population has more than doubled in my life time. From 2.6 to 6.7 billion. But for the first time in history if you have enough desire you can live just about anywhere in the world. The trick is to find a place you resonate with. Even if that is your own back yard or where ever you find your heart drawn to. I will mention that the more places you live the easier it is to move but also the more likely you will feel a little out of place no matter where you end up.

The point of moving to another country is not really to bring all of your 'cultural baggage' and pet preferences but to enjoy, savor even the differences of the 'local oddities'.

Gruzie got it right, it expands the mind. But only if you come with an open mind.

<i>The folks that are complaining about getting to stores are missing the point.</i>

I think you are missing the point. My complaint, at least, is not that I can't go shopping on a Sunday, it is that I must dedicate my Saturday morning to it. It structures my time to a degree that is, frankly, burdensome. If I go away for the weekend, or even sleep in on a Saturday morning, the dry cleaning doesn't get picked up, the refrigerator doesn't get stocked, etc. I prefer to do things when I want to do them.

There is nothing close-minded about being honest about both the positives <b>and</b> the negatives of living in Europe. Having my &quot;free&quot; time, effectively, scheduled for me is a pretty big negative.

Shopping for groceries is totally out.
You have the stuff delivered to your home in the evening or before you go to work. Prices are just a little higher (flat fee between 1.5 and 5&euro; per delivery). Order over the internet pay via paypal.

http://www.pikpik.de or
http://www.kaisers.biz/lieferservice/index.php3

You don't really want to carry bottles around, do you...

I lived in France for about 5 years back in the 70's, married a Frenchman - my starter husband. I am pretty fluent in French.

And, yes, once the kids are out of the house - 6 years more or less till the youngest 2 are off to college or the next stage of their lives - I am planning to move back. Don't know what my husband will do, but that's another long story.

I felt at home in France, sometimes more so than here in the States. However, I needed, and will probably still need, that cultural connection, like to people who remember watching Batman on TV, or who know what you mean when you say &quot;31 flavors&quot;. There's a whole language that makes up who we are, a foundation, if you will, of things that go almost unspoken. And, although I am close to being bilingual, I am not because of that. So, I will miss those connections, but I can get them now over the internet. It is so much easier to keep in touch nowadays.

Also, let's not confuse moving anywhere with moving to Europe - some of these posts reference missing one's house, and neighbors, which would happen if you moved within the US.

I think the ideal would be to have a pied a terre here to come back to when the need arises.

Where does one go to find a lawyer and an accountant familiar with taxes and laws pertaining to living abroad?

James -

Very nicely put, and spoken like someone who has called several places &quot;home.&quot;

My husband also hates the limited shopping hours, but I personally love that things close down. I am glad I can't go anywhere but for a walk on Sunday (well, I guess Church is open too...) Of course, I'm not working right now, so I can plan my grocery trips around the open times. I do think it is harder for 2 career families.

On sunny days like today, when the lake is sparkling, and all of Zurich is in a good mood, it's hard to imagine life anywhere else.

gruezi

bookmarking! I'm considering going to school in Europe (MBA hopefully)and maybe if possible also staying.

I can( born in France) and I will , one day. I will keep a residense here in Canada though, and likely do July and August in Canada ,and the rest of the year in France. I would miss my family and friends if I never came back, we have 3 kids, so I imagine grandkids will be around in about 10 years, and I don't want to miss out on them!

bookmarking

The question tonight is &quot;would I if I could?...move back to the US, that is.&quot;

This election is getting more and more insane.

Sure is taking any pressure off Bush to do anything positive in his last days!

gruezi

If my family were not in California (mom and brother) and I had enough money I would move to Italy. Preferably Rome or Venice.

Hell No! Just back from France..thankfully. Pretty and all that, but that European way of doing things is not always the most logical and damn tiring too! Trey difficil..yeah, I probably spelled that wrong and shoot me because you know I will SAY it wrong.

Just list me as an occasional visitor (mind you, I have plenty of relatives that have lived there 50 plus years...I will just visit).