rex

On another thread, "best bargains in lodging btwn Paris/Bilbao" - - http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34613800 - - I made this statement...

"the lodging IS the destination"

...and as my wife and I talked last night, it's clear that I am/we are still stumbling over the main skeleton of our itinerary.

I know why... it's because I don't really know what I want to do, nor why I want to go to any particular location (probably in France, but could be anywhere within a day's drive of Paris).

I just trust that I will find "it" when I get there, "It" is probably just rustic small town/village Europe; most likely an emphasis on something vaguely "artisan-ish" (I suppose that "artisanal" is the correct dictionary word)... perhaps foods, wines, home decor items, art, fabrics... just "stuff".

I trust that I will be satisfied during the days with just about whatever we find; I'm not even sure that the geography is all that crucial, though some substantial contrasts are on the table, i.e., southwest vs. Burgundy/Champagne, for example (even though the producers of "Chocolat" thought that Americans would not notice interchanging them!)

Yet, I do not want to leave the lodging to chance at all. I want to pick it for something that probably only I can define. I want it to look "really cool", in its "setting" and in its architecture and exteriors - - and I have some hard-to-put-into-words notions of "good value". Not based on the thread count in the sheets, nor even whether they have mismatched bath towels - - more just the air of "oh wow, you really cannot find this in America".

Have you planned trips like this? Did they work out for you? This one is short - - just five nights there - - (happily, based on a really good air fare), and on pretty short notice (20 days from today).

I hope my instincts will guide me to the right places. I wonder if you have succeeded or failed in this.

Best wishes,

Rex

BTilke

Usually (for us) the lodging comes second to the destination, although sometimes they are almost tied...when we go to Baden-Baden (which we do fairly frequently), it's because we want a week-end of R & R at the Dorint spa hotel.
My husband wants *part* of our late summer vacation to be relaxation, not sightseeing, and we settled on the Alps. We were leaning toward Megeve in France, but then I came across a too good to miss deal at the 5-star Royal Trofana Hotel in Ischgl in Austria(www.trofana.at). We're getting a deluxe room (with two bathrooms, hooray) full use of the hotel's elegant spa facilities, breakfast AND dinner (the hotel's restaurant is Michelin-starred, has an 18/20 Gault Millau score, and rated one of the country's best) for just over 200 euros per night. Some of our German relatives have decided to join us and got the same deal. We plan to swan around the hotel and take the dog on hikes in the area, but that's it. So in in that case, the lodging turned out to be the main factor in our destination decision. It's not the normal way we do things, though.
Lodging can also seal the deal when we're dithering between two destinations. After leaving Ischgl, we're driving down to Bellagio. In choosing between Lugano and Bellagio, the great previous experience I had at the Hotel Florence (in 2004) was the tie-breaker.

ncgrrl

Over on the US board, lodging IS the destination for Las Vegas and Hawaii. Sure there are sights to be seens, and attractions to visit, but the room is very important to visitors.

Various travel publications put out lists of best hotels and people choose to stay there because the place made 'the list'.

And I would say sort-of for some US National Parks too. If you're going to the Grand Canyon, then you must stay at El Tovar type of responses.

BTilke

I forgot to add that in my Fodors research about the area, Ingo, one of the Fodorites skiign and Alpine experts, warned that Ischgl will be pretty deserted when we plan to be there. So...I guess that means we'll have the facilities and staff of a 5-star resort almost to ourselves. That is such a shame ;-)

tcreath

Usually when I plan a trip where the lodging is the destination, its usually somewhere in the US that I have already been before so I'm looking for more of a relaxing getaway. I have done such trips to Napa Valley and closer to home (KC, Chicago, etc). When we plan a trip to Europe, we usually don't spend much time in the hotel so its not too big of a deal. However, I found myself looking for the "perfect provence hotel" when we considered going to Provence next year. I think that, for us, it probably depends on where we are going. If we are going to Provence, I want something special and typical of the area. If we are staying in a city the hotel generally isn't as much of a concern.

Tracy

amor

Lodging is secondary to destination. As long as the lodging is clean, convenient and secure I'm happy. Oh, and the bed must be comfy and husband's feet must not hang off the end. The best most unique places we have ever stayed in were not the best 5 star hotels in town. And the time we stayed in the the "it" resort in Costa Rica we were bored silly wishing we had stayed in the quaint surf town our gut told us to go to, but let the travel agent talk us out of. Never used a travel agent again!

Your trip sounds like it is going to be great! I'm jealous, I've always wanted to go to Europe and see where the wind blows me without firm plans. I'm sure your chances of finding what you are looking for are pretty good too. Looking forward to the trip report.

sunny16

DH and I want to do this for just one place: The Furnace Creek Inn in Death Valley. We stumbled upon it during a day trip out to Death Valley a few years back, and we almost spent the night there just for the heck of it. Someday, we want to spend a week out there, and Furnace Creek will be our base, but we won't lounge around the hotel.

I do agree with you about lodging being important, though. We had an awful experience in Boston...that's the last time I'll ever try to go cheap on lodging in a major city. It really colored my impression of that entire trip. Tripadvisor.com is my new best friend.

Tiff

Hi Rex,

I SO get it. For us, the lodging, is a very intricate part of the planning.

No matter where we travel, I get great joy from researching what accommodations might be just right for us. Emphasis on the "for us" part. That has been one of my favorite parts of this board since I came wandering in three years ago.

While I don't know that I can say exactly what your quote says, "the lodging is the destination", I can tell you that the lodging is EQUALLY important to us in the planning, and because of this board and other resources it has always worked out as we had hoped.

And it depends what area of the world we go to. If it is tropical or now with our Italy planning, the lodging is very important. Warm weather, of course the obvious preference is a room with a view, and close proximity to the water, so there is a feel of being away from home, we want to soak it all in. This most recent planning to Italy had me very driven to find a place that was unique, charming, full of character, and history. There is so much history abroad, why stay somewhere ordinary, we can get that here! It took me a while but I found it, both in Venice and Florence.

I can't think of a better place than in Europe, France in your case, to make the lodging YOUR destination.

Rex, possibly these websites may assist you as they did me. www.charminghotels.com
and www.slowtrav.com, (which I am sure you have heard of)
Also as mentioned above tripadvisors.com is a huge resource.

Sadly, I just went to charminghotels. com to look for you and it is 'under construction' right now, but I just used it about 10 days ago, so it may just be up in a day or so.

I hope you find YOUR unique lodging as we did. It is indeed most of the fun for me, and we have never been disappointed.

I am so happy that you and Mrs. Rex will be on your way soon! Was pleased yesterday to see you got that great airfare!

Happy travels, T.

MaureenGP

Whether the lodging "is" the destination depends upon the trip. But, I will say that on a month-long drive around Spain some years ago, I planned a great deal of our itinerary around stays at the paradors. I was less concerned about our hotels in Madrid and Barcelona, which I saw as places to change and sleep, while the paradors were an experience all by themselves. It was great fun, especially for our teen daughter, to stay in castles, convents and palaces.
Another place where the lodging was part of our experience was in Hawaii, where we stayed at the elegant Moana Surfrider on Waikiki, the Hyatt Regency on Maui, and divided our time on the Big Island between Volcano House overlooking and a lovely little B&B in the rainforest. In big cities, I usually just try to find a reasonable and clean place to lay my head, but I will admit that early in my marriage we booked a trip to Madrid and stayed at the Palace Hotel and it was amazing, especially the service.

MaureenGP

I just remembered something I forgot to mention in my previous post. Cost does not have to be factor in discovering interesting lodgings. My daughter backpacked around Europe last summer, and her favorite stay was a hostel in Venice called the Palazzo Zenobio. Although her hostel accommodations were anything but fancy--and five flights up--she will never forget a masked ball they had in the ballroom her first night there. From the garden, she watched Venetians arrive via the canal in formal gowns, with masqued footmen with torches to greet them. It was her most expensive hostel--she paid about $50 a night--and she will never forget it. It proves that travel always holds wonderful surprises.

caroline_edinburgh

Maybe people who aren't travelling so far tend to do this more. If I need to relax I am quite happy to spend a week somewhere like the Amalfi Coast rarely venturing out of the hotel, just lying by the pool & reading/swimming/admiring the scenery by day, eating & drinking by night. But then it's not so far from the Uk to Italy as it is from the US to Italy, so I don't feel I need to pack lots in as I'll probably be going back.

This June we're going to spend what will no doubt be a tiring week in Venice, then a week on a beach on the Amalfi Coast doing nothing - to me it wouldn't be a holiday otherwise.

Tiff

Oh I completely agree Maureen, in fact I think if you start ruling out accommodations based on cost you will be missing out.

I usually start with finding the most unique and charming place I can, THEN see if it is what we want to pay.
Rarely have I seen a place that has the character we are looking for that we could not afford and most of the time as you mentioned above it is alot less than expected.

I just use my imagination, see what I can see, keep searching until I find IT. You really don't know IT until you see IT, because everyone's IT is different. (ha)

Sometimes I find it right away as I did with Venice, other times it takes me four weeks (Florence). The Caribbean always takes a while because all the islands are so different. But when you find it you know, just like you said Rex, you will find your "really cool" place and know right away it is the right place.

I mean the place we found in Florence dates back to the 14th century. Donatello had his studio there. For us, that cannot possibly compare to anything else and has nothing to do with price or stars, hee.

Keep us posted Rex, I am curious now, and want to start researching for you!

What fun! T.

Kavey

The lodging isn't the destination but getting the right lodging at my chosen destination is absolutely a high priority for me.

Forgive me for referring to non-Europe based trips (as that's what I've been doing more of lately) but I spent probably something like 6-12 month researching and planning our 9 week trip to Southern Africa last year. My first step was to decide the itinerary and that was based on what we wanted to see combined with practicals on driving times/ transport modes available and occasionally also took into account accommodation options. With that itinerary drafted I then invested a lot of time in researching accommodation options, liaising and negotiating with owners directly and making bookings (for South Africa) and in researching (what kind of wildlife was abundant, reputation of camp guides and staff, setting etc) in order to decide on lodges that I then had my travel agent book for Botswana and Namibia.

These choices were, without fail, the right choices and every place but one exceeded expectations and contributed immensely to the success of the trip. That one exception was acceptable but didn't shine as brightly as the rest.

For a recent trip to Bordeaux to attend a language school for 2 weeks it took me quite some time to find the right private apartment from which my husband and I could enjoy the city. It gave us a comfortable bedroom and bathroom together with living space where we could do our homework, store our shopping, relax and plan our free afternoon activities.

Even in Europe, whilst I seldom go for the 5 star properties I have found that time investment in finding the right 3 star with the right facilities, in the right location, with friendly staff and offering great value has paid off in terms of added value to the trip - in Venice we loved our corner room in the Violini d'Oro.

In short (yeah, right!) whilst lodging ain't ever the destination (though, loving luxury and good design, I'd never rule out it being equal to the destination) it's certainly high on the list!

rex

Thanks, especially to tiff... I'm glad that you "SO get it".

And note to amor: re...

<<I'm jealous, I've always wanted to go to Europe and see where the wind blows me without firm plans.>>

Curiously, I don't know that we will "go to Europe and see where the wind blows me without firm plans" - - on the "macro" level... but we will on the "micro" level (I think), ifthat makes any sense.

That is, I don't think we will have a list of sights, nor even towns that we feel like we have on our agenda for any given day, nor for the trip as a whole. And yet, this is (again, I think) &quot;planned&quot; to be an <i><b>active</b></i> trip of &quot;exploration&quot;.

And it won't be &quot;where the wind blows&quot; at all, for lodging. I want to look forward to the places we pick to stay, and see if they measure up.

For those (lodging choices) that do fit us to a tee, I am hoping that our hosts will give rise to our plans for that day.

Of course, the places you choose to stay (or dine) greatly influence the advice you get. &quot;Country folks&quot;, even when they live just 25 miles from a big city are less likely to give good advice on how to make a day trip into that city. Thus, right now, we are still trying to decide whether to include Reims or Dijon (if we go to Champagne/Burgundy), or Bilbao or San Sebastian (if we go to Pais Vasco/Espana - - and I must say that the Maribel's guide for that part of the world is quite a persuasive sales tool!)

Still mulling and mulling and mulling.. big trip to the library or bookstore today, I think. Sometimes, the internet just can't hold a candle to books. I would likely spend the weekend with my nose stuck in 'em... but two of our girls are home this weekend, and it's Derby, and Mother's Day and a niece graduating...

Hopefully, the recommendations just keep piling up here!

Gardyloo

I'm becoming more ambivalent about this as time goes by. There have been a number of occasions where the lodging that was the destination turned out to be charming...and crummy, or overpriced, or inhabited by unpleasant neighbors, or... and where you end up feeling foolish for having invested so much effort or time in selecting it in the first place, or, in the worst case, where you've prepaid and can't get out.

Our worst such experience was in Fiji where we were at a small resort on a lovely beach on an &quot;out&quot; island, that we had planned long and hard to arrange. Bugs, psycho manager, both got infections (she by bug bites, me by coral scrape) and had to medevac ourselves (saying buh-bye to prepaid accommodation) with bupkis in sympathy or help from the quaint-charming-lodge's couldn't-give-a-**** manager.

So now we invest time looking for &quot;destination&quot; lodging that is close enough to alternatives or where escape routes are clear, so that we don't have similar experiences. Quaint is all well and good but it doesn't mean the water's hot in the shower. Some things matter more now than they did when the backpack was stashed by the front door, ready for action.

Intrepid1

We tend to be very &quot;aware&quot; of where, and what, we stay in. By that, I mean we recognize that for us the place we stay is somehow integral to the entire experience.

I think there are a lot of travelers who either actively deny this or haven't given it much thought.

I am always intrigued when I hear people describe lodgings as, &quot;It is only a place to sleep,&quot; or, &quot;We aren't going there to stay in our room,&quot; and so forth. When I hear or read these words the term &quot;hyper-rationalization&quot; springs to mind.

What is even more interesting is that these same people seem to complain the loudest when the lodging/accommodation turns out to be less than expected or just plain BAD. Gee, what happened to, &quot;We're only going to sleep there&quot;?????

What I found acceptable as a student has long since passed, and, frankly, I'm quite happy that it has.

sunny16

I actually stayed in some very interesting buildings when I was hostelling. The YHAs in Ireland and Scotland own some gorgeous properties. Many are converted mansions. I had some wonderful times in hostels, and I really miss the social interaction available in them. Alas, now, my DH will only stay in a hotel room with a private bathroom, so no more of that for me.

Dave_in_Paris

Hi Rex,

Your post strikes a chord. We often do take trips with the destination determined by the lodging, Scott's Hotel, inland on Mallorca, for example, or in France, this fabulous seaside hotel/two-star restaurant on the Bay of Morlaix in Brittany:

http://www.hoteldecarantec.com/

Happy trails!

Jocelyn_P

We usually choose the destination first, then find someplace suitable to sleep, however, on our upcoming (someday) trip to Belgium and the Netherlands with the kids, I'd really like to stay in a specific hostel for a few nights. <i> It's a castle, in the woods, a few feet from the beach. </i> It's out of the way, and not in an area we'd otherwise stay, but come on, can it get any better for a kid?

WillTravel

I recently found out about this place in Naples, and since then the idea of visiting there has become more appealing:
http://www.brigidine.org/ENG/italia_napoli.htm

I spend a lot of time looking for accommodation that is &quot;just right&quot; for my specific requirements, only one of which is a low cost.