Someone said to stay in St. Remy then do day trips?
Jan 8th, 2004, 06:35 PM
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Someone said to stay in St. Remy then do day trips?
Is it worth it to try and do five or six days in that area? Or do we move around to Aix, then St. Remy then maybe Toulouse?
I'm struggling with figuring out an itinerary for a week in this area.
I'm struggling with figuring out an itinerary for a week in this area.
Jan 8th, 2004, 06:47 PM
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This should not be a struggle. You can plan all you want to, but your favorite days will be setting out in your car with map in hand and stopping at villages at random to explore. I could do that for a couple of weeks and never lose interest. You're working too hard.
Jan 8th, 2004, 06:49 PM
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we are planning a group trip of eight. So, to begin with I need to have some what of an idea to give to the other travelers so they will know what there is to do and see. That is why I am asking.
Jan 8th, 2004, 07:19 PM
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Well, what is it that you want to SEE? That would make all the difference in determining whether St-Rémy makes a good base or not.
Do you have a guidebook and map? Do you know what there is to see and do in the region? I suggest you do some basic research and decide whether Glanum and Fontveille or Isle-sur-la Sorgue or Salon or the Camargue or Arles are what you want to focus on, and then make some decisions.
It never fails to amaze me that people want to go somewhere without having done a lick of research and without knowing anything about where they are headed. Is it just me, or do other people find this unsettling?
Do you have a guidebook and map? Do you know what there is to see and do in the region? I suggest you do some basic research and decide whether Glanum and Fontveille or Isle-sur-la Sorgue or Salon or the Camargue or Arles are what you want to focus on, and then make some decisions.
It never fails to amaze me that people want to go somewhere without having done a lick of research and without knowing anything about where they are headed. Is it just me, or do other people find this unsettling?
Jan 8th, 2004, 08:32 PM
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St.-Cirq,
I think that travellers are divided into two parts (not three, like Gaul): those who have figured out how to plan and those who have not. I'm in the first group--map in hand, guides next to me, working out potential itinerarie months in advance, looking at what there is of interest and where it might fit in. For me that's part of trip anticipation, but I know others who just like to hop in the car and go. I prefer to know where I'm going, whether what I want to see will be open when I'm there, what restaurants might be nearby, and where I will lay my head at night. I can't imagine doing a trip any other way.
At the very least, I'd advise visitors to get the green Michelin guide for the region that interests them. It has various itineraries, complete with driving times and suggestions for where to stay.
To get back to Toile's original question, I think with a name like that h/she should plan to visit Tarascon to see the fabric museum. But really...basing in St.-Remy would be fine; from there you can visit Arles, the incredible Pont-du-Gard, perhaps Uzes, certainly Arles, and also Avignon. That could consume 4 days easily. The you could shift to the area around Aix for 2 days and see that city and the Luberon.
But first, sit down and decide what things appeal to you: historic sights and sites, charming villages, architecture, old churches and abbeys. That will at least get you started. But do go out and buy the Michelin map of Provence first off!
I think that travellers are divided into two parts (not three, like Gaul): those who have figured out how to plan and those who have not. I'm in the first group--map in hand, guides next to me, working out potential itinerarie months in advance, looking at what there is of interest and where it might fit in. For me that's part of trip anticipation, but I know others who just like to hop in the car and go. I prefer to know where I'm going, whether what I want to see will be open when I'm there, what restaurants might be nearby, and where I will lay my head at night. I can't imagine doing a trip any other way.
At the very least, I'd advise visitors to get the green Michelin guide for the region that interests them. It has various itineraries, complete with driving times and suggestions for where to stay.
To get back to Toile's original question, I think with a name like that h/she should plan to visit Tarascon to see the fabric museum. But really...basing in St.-Remy would be fine; from there you can visit Arles, the incredible Pont-du-Gard, perhaps Uzes, certainly Arles, and also Avignon. That could consume 4 days easily. The you could shift to the area around Aix for 2 days and see that city and the Luberon.
But first, sit down and decide what things appeal to you: historic sights and sites, charming villages, architecture, old churches and abbeys. That will at least get you started. But do go out and buy the Michelin map of Provence first off!
Jan 9th, 2004, 05:15 AM
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St.Cirq, I could not agree more. I detect an entitlement attitude from many---perhaps a generation thing--that says that cyberspace owes me an answer. I love the ones that ask about room configurations in hotels--without bothering to ask the hotel. I was always taught that you must earn the right first--then ask for help.
Jan 9th, 2004, 05:30 AM
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I also agree. And I didn't mean to imply that I'm not a total planner. But my comment was simply geared that in Provence, we ended up following my plans far less than usual. Sure we had places we wanted to see, but with a full week there, we ended up just enjoying for the most part. Incidentally our first fully planned day was driving from Aix to St. Remy where we were to park and take a bus to LeBaux and afterwards hike back to St. Remy on a trail which I had read about. The bus schedule was wrong and we had to wait quite a while for one, then after LeBaux, we found this hiking path had been closed due to some "landslide". We ended up having to call for a taxi to come clear out there and pick us up to take us back to St. Remy as there was far more traffic on the road than we wanted to deal with walking! After that, our pre-plans were less and less significant.
Toile saying it was a "struggle" to figure out an itinerary also told me that toile is the sort that doesn't find detailed planning part of the "joy" of travel.
Group of 8 staying at one place? Have a list of places to see. Each morning meet at breakfast and decide who wants to go where. If all go off in their own direction, fine. If several want to do the same thing, also fine. Or are the others wanting you to have a definite itinerary because they are uninterested in making their own plans?
Toile saying it was a "struggle" to figure out an itinerary also told me that toile is the sort that doesn't find detailed planning part of the "joy" of travel.
Group of 8 staying at one place? Have a list of places to see. Each morning meet at breakfast and decide who wants to go where. If all go off in their own direction, fine. If several want to do the same thing, also fine. Or are the others wanting you to have a definite itinerary because they are uninterested in making their own plans?
Jan 9th, 2004, 05:31 AM
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toile - why are you throwing Toulouse into the Aix, St-Remy mix? Don't move around - stay in St-Remy for the entire time. I could post an itinerary for you but it would be based on my preferences and would be my trip, not yours.
StCirq,
I'm so glad you expressed this thought, and so nicely too (you're very classy).
Sometimes I want to lash out at people who have no clue why they're going somewhere, especially small towns. I can understand asking for advice on major cities since the sightseeing options may be overwhelming, but do people just grab a name off a map, decide to go there, buy a ticket, and then wonder what they will do when they get there.
There are many locations I've first heard of on this board but when an unfamiliar location comes up I start looking at where it is and at least get some basic familiarity about the place before I buy a ticket or decide to go there. I don't have enough money nor time to spend on places that may not interest me.
Even worse are people who post multiple times asking the same question about the same place. Do they think the original answers weren't good enough, I wonder?
StCirq,
I'm so glad you expressed this thought, and so nicely too (you're very classy).
Sometimes I want to lash out at people who have no clue why they're going somewhere, especially small towns. I can understand asking for advice on major cities since the sightseeing options may be overwhelming, but do people just grab a name off a map, decide to go there, buy a ticket, and then wonder what they will do when they get there.
There are many locations I've first heard of on this board but when an unfamiliar location comes up I start looking at where it is and at least get some basic familiarity about the place before I buy a ticket or decide to go there. I don't have enough money nor time to spend on places that may not interest me.
Even worse are people who post multiple times asking the same question about the same place. Do they think the original answers weren't good enough, I wonder?
Jan 9th, 2004, 05:41 AM
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Toile, I feel your pain. I like to check a lot of resources in the early stages of planning, including the opinions of the nice, well-traveled people you find on this board (isn't that the idea of a travel forum?)
The early stages of planning a trip can be a little overwhelming. And I can't imagine trying to please 8 people! I just spent two weeks traveling with 2 other people and it was a nightmare.
Unless everyone in your group is really low-key, I would try basing yourself in a larger town so that your daily outings are optional, and those opting to stay behind can walk around town, sit by the pool, go shopping, have a long lunch or whatever. (This I learned on my recent trip where one person did not want to do whatever was on the day's agenda, but didn't want to sit in the hotel room either.)
Then, looking at your map, identify potential daytrips to the surrounding smaller towns. For example, from Aix (which is pretty central), I have done day trips to l'Isle Sur la Sorgue (for antique shopping on weekends), Avignon, Arles, St. Remy, the Luberon, Marseilles. You can easily spend five or six days seeing the areas and Aix itself has plenty to do for those who don't feel like joining the day's outing.
Then put together a list of all your optional day trips (along with a little blurb about what there is to do and see in each place) and circulate it to your travel mates to see which have the most appeal. Eliminate those that don't interest people. Further research those that do and voila! You are on your way to a perfect itinerary.
Hope this helps.
The early stages of planning a trip can be a little overwhelming. And I can't imagine trying to please 8 people! I just spent two weeks traveling with 2 other people and it was a nightmare.
Unless everyone in your group is really low-key, I would try basing yourself in a larger town so that your daily outings are optional, and those opting to stay behind can walk around town, sit by the pool, go shopping, have a long lunch or whatever. (This I learned on my recent trip where one person did not want to do whatever was on the day's agenda, but didn't want to sit in the hotel room either.)
Then, looking at your map, identify potential daytrips to the surrounding smaller towns. For example, from Aix (which is pretty central), I have done day trips to l'Isle Sur la Sorgue (for antique shopping on weekends), Avignon, Arles, St. Remy, the Luberon, Marseilles. You can easily spend five or six days seeing the areas and Aix itself has plenty to do for those who don't feel like joining the day's outing.
Then put together a list of all your optional day trips (along with a little blurb about what there is to do and see in each place) and circulate it to your travel mates to see which have the most appeal. Eliminate those that don't interest people. Further research those that do and voila! You are on your way to a perfect itinerary.
Hope this helps.
Jan 9th, 2004, 05:44 AM
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bobthenavigator and st cirq - couldn't agree more. I just wonder about those who decide to go somewhere and have no idea why, what to do, see, stay, eat and expect answers from strangers about "their trip". What one person likes and enjoyed can be a complete bore to another (group).
That said, "toile" - get thee a map and a guidebook and decide what you and your group of 8 would like to do/see (this should be interesting for 8 people!!! duh!). You do realize you will need rent either two vehicles or a van.
We did a trip similar to what "toile" appears to want to do, but certainly didn't do the area between Aix via St. Remy to Toulouse in 1-wk (you'd still be picking me up off the floor).
Upon arriving in Marseilles drove to AIX for 2nts,
then drove (65miles) to St. Remy for 1wk - visiting as day trips East to the Luberon towns (1dy); South to Glanum & Arles (1dy); also South/West to Camarque and Aigues Mortes (1dy); Isle sur la Sorgue, Van Gogh Asylum and Les Baux (1dy); North to Orange, Chat.du Pape, Vaison la Romain (1dy); Avignon & Pont du Gard (1dy). I'm sure I missed 1-day and can't recall what we did - the mind does forget. But or car knew Rt.99 quite well!
Drove West to Nimes (2nts) with day trip to Uzes and full day in Nimes.
Drove South/West (350 miles) to Carcassone (2nts);
Then West onto Toulouse (2nts) with day trip to Uzes and full day in TLS, finally departing from TLS airport via CDG back to the states.
So "toile" you have to figure out with your group your interests and how you accomplish it in 1-week. Because, unless you want to spend your entire time in a car and on the roads, you can't get those 3 destinations in the amount of time alotted.
That said, "toile" - get thee a map and a guidebook and decide what you and your group of 8 would like to do/see (this should be interesting for 8 people!!! duh!). You do realize you will need rent either two vehicles or a van.
We did a trip similar to what "toile" appears to want to do, but certainly didn't do the area between Aix via St. Remy to Toulouse in 1-wk (you'd still be picking me up off the floor).
Upon arriving in Marseilles drove to AIX for 2nts,
then drove (65miles) to St. Remy for 1wk - visiting as day trips East to the Luberon towns (1dy); South to Glanum & Arles (1dy); also South/West to Camarque and Aigues Mortes (1dy); Isle sur la Sorgue, Van Gogh Asylum and Les Baux (1dy); North to Orange, Chat.du Pape, Vaison la Romain (1dy); Avignon & Pont du Gard (1dy). I'm sure I missed 1-day and can't recall what we did - the mind does forget. But or car knew Rt.99 quite well!
Drove West to Nimes (2nts) with day trip to Uzes and full day in Nimes.
Drove South/West (350 miles) to Carcassone (2nts);
Then West onto Toulouse (2nts) with day trip to Uzes and full day in TLS, finally departing from TLS airport via CDG back to the states.
So "toile" you have to figure out with your group your interests and how you accomplish it in 1-week. Because, unless you want to spend your entire time in a car and on the roads, you can't get those 3 destinations in the amount of time alotted.
Jan 9th, 2004, 07:06 AM
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Look.....I am a planner. I only come to this board asking opinions and help b/c that was what I thought these boards are suppose to be for.
I am doing research for the South of France for 8 of us. The other 8 are doing research on different areas. I basically have to sell them on going to SOF. Not because they don't want to go but b/c we all are trying to decide where we are doing our trip this year.
Last year we went to Australia. The year before that we did the Hawaiian islands. Year before that we did Canada.
I'm sorry if I have offended peopel and given them the impression that I haven't done research. I have thank you. I just (as a person that hasn't been to the area) want to know the reasons why people like SOF and why. Sorry. If you don't want to answer then don't post here. I think sometimes this board and especially a coupld of people on this board get very full of themselves b/c they have been to one area and know it well. Instead of being nasty abot others not grasping a town, village or county, why don't you just share or even better skip over a post of an ignorant traveler like me.
Cig and Underhill thank you because you have been so very helpful. I really and truly appreciate it. If it wasn't for you both and a coupld of others I would have left the fodor board a long time ago. Thank you!
I am doing research for the South of France for 8 of us. The other 8 are doing research on different areas. I basically have to sell them on going to SOF. Not because they don't want to go but b/c we all are trying to decide where we are doing our trip this year.
Last year we went to Australia. The year before that we did the Hawaiian islands. Year before that we did Canada.
I'm sorry if I have offended peopel and given them the impression that I haven't done research. I have thank you. I just (as a person that hasn't been to the area) want to know the reasons why people like SOF and why. Sorry. If you don't want to answer then don't post here. I think sometimes this board and especially a coupld of people on this board get very full of themselves b/c they have been to one area and know it well. Instead of being nasty abot others not grasping a town, village or county, why don't you just share or even better skip over a post of an ignorant traveler like me.
Cig and Underhill thank you because you have been so very helpful. I really and truly appreciate it. If it wasn't for you both and a coupld of others I would have left the fodor board a long time ago. Thank you!
Jan 9th, 2004, 07:42 AM
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Toile. Hi. I love guidebooks. I know they are expensive. I have three daytrips books for France alone.
But, I want to tell you about one that I bought for this area. It is a Signpost Guide "Provence and the Cote D"Azur.
If anything can help you with your plans for Provence, this is it. We used it for our trip and found it invaluable. I just can't tell you what made it stand out from the other daytrip books I have. It is very easy to follow, gives great drives, describes almost every town.
This is just a suggestion and may help.
The problem we had was trying to cut back on what we wanted to see.
This may help you with your base.
IMHO I wouldn't move more than once in your six days, especially with eight people. But that is just me.
We were near ST Remy. But if you want to enjoy your trip by basing here, you may find too much to do trying to reach from Avignon to Marseille. After, all, you want to enjoy yourself and be able to take your time.
Have a wonderful trip.
But, I want to tell you about one that I bought for this area. It is a Signpost Guide "Provence and the Cote D"Azur.
If anything can help you with your plans for Provence, this is it. We used it for our trip and found it invaluable. I just can't tell you what made it stand out from the other daytrip books I have. It is very easy to follow, gives great drives, describes almost every town.
This is just a suggestion and may help.
The problem we had was trying to cut back on what we wanted to see.
This may help you with your base.
IMHO I wouldn't move more than once in your six days, especially with eight people. But that is just me.
We were near ST Remy. But if you want to enjoy your trip by basing here, you may find too much to do trying to reach from Avignon to Marseille. After, all, you want to enjoy yourself and be able to take your time.
Have a wonderful trip.
Jan 9th, 2004, 08:49 AM
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Well, Toile, I suppose I'm one of those rather "rude" people who didn't help, but I'm sorry I'm not a mind-reader. You say you did do some research, but yet your post indicates none of it. You offer no idication that you have a clue of what you want to do and you didn't explain initially that you're trying to make 8 people happy, or even a vague idea of what the interests of the group might be. That's pretty major information.
It would be nice if your post said something like, "a group of 8 of us may want to travel to St. Remy and my job is to convince them it is worthwhile. We're looking at having a mini bus (or two cars, or whatever) and would like to visit a number of towns and sites. We know we want to see LesBaux, how much time are we likely to spend there? Can we do three villages effectively in a day, for example ________, _________, and ________?"
See the difference? Posts like that give other posters with information in that area to actually help you. Otherwise we have nothing to go by. Now I hope you don't find this rude as well, but frankly I'm trying to help show you how this forum can get you lots of great information.
It would be nice if your post said something like, "a group of 8 of us may want to travel to St. Remy and my job is to convince them it is worthwhile. We're looking at having a mini bus (or two cars, or whatever) and would like to visit a number of towns and sites. We know we want to see LesBaux, how much time are we likely to spend there? Can we do three villages effectively in a day, for example ________, _________, and ________?"
See the difference? Posts like that give other posters with information in that area to actually help you. Otherwise we have nothing to go by. Now I hope you don't find this rude as well, but frankly I'm trying to help show you how this forum can get you lots of great information.
Jan 9th, 2004, 09:13 AM
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Hi toile,
I have to agree with Patrick. You didn't express what you were really looking for. You said you are struggling with an itinerary but didn't state what you had already researched or what your goal is.
I have posted lots of responses here about the SOF and have emailed people privately with information. Reading previous threads about Provence will help you to gain further knowledge.
I have to agree with Patrick. You didn't express what you were really looking for. You said you are struggling with an itinerary but didn't state what you had already researched or what your goal is.
I have posted lots of responses here about the SOF and have emailed people privately with information. Reading previous threads about Provence will help you to gain further knowledge.
Jan 9th, 2004, 09:40 AM
#16
toile, if you have a Barnes & Nobles near you you can read books there. They don't mind. Look at the most beautiful villages Of Provence and see what appeals to you. Then adrienne's suggestion and other travel books on Provence that will tell you what historical sights to see, such as putside the city of St Remy are Glanun and Les Antiques. Once the site of a major Phocaeean trading post. Les Antiques comprises a commemorative arch and mausoleum and is situated on the road that once connectd Spain to Italy and was built during the reign of Augustus to indicate the entrance to the city of Glanum where you can walk amoung the ruins of this sanctuary city that was later the point of commerce in Roman times and earlier. Nearby are the tiny cloisters of the medieval St-Paul-de-Monastery which houses the clinic where Van Goth had himself committed. Without my books I would have missed these sites.
Jan 9th, 2004, 12:51 PM
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Thank you everyone.
I agree that we should not mover around. That is why I am trying to push the group to rent a house and stick to one home base. The majority of this group has never been to Europe. They don't fully understand what the jet lag will feel like. Also, that looking at a map of France (or Italy or Spain, etc.,..) towns are spread apart.
So, that is my first frustration. But, I think I can handle the challenge of planning this trip and getting my way. I.e. going to the South of France.
My problem right now is that I can't pick anything that I dont want to see. I know there is no way in he&& that we can see everything, especially in a group of 8. But, right now I can't seem to find a reason why we shouldn't go to a town. Does that make sense? That is why I keep coming back and ask what should we see. I really keep hoping someone will say "Save your time ___________ is horrible. Save yourself the time and energy." Unfortunately I've picked an area that is nothing short of perfect. Or maybe that is fotunately!
I agree that we should not mover around. That is why I am trying to push the group to rent a house and stick to one home base. The majority of this group has never been to Europe. They don't fully understand what the jet lag will feel like. Also, that looking at a map of France (or Italy or Spain, etc.,..) towns are spread apart.
So, that is my first frustration. But, I think I can handle the challenge of planning this trip and getting my way. I.e. going to the South of France.
My problem right now is that I can't pick anything that I dont want to see. I know there is no way in he&& that we can see everything, especially in a group of 8. But, right now I can't seem to find a reason why we shouldn't go to a town. Does that make sense? That is why I keep coming back and ask what should we see. I really keep hoping someone will say "Save your time ___________ is horrible. Save yourself the time and energy." Unfortunately I've picked an area that is nothing short of perfect. Or maybe that is fotunately!
Jan 9th, 2004, 12:54 PM
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toile -
This was your original post:
>>Is it worth it to try and do five or six days in that area? Or do we move around to Aix, then St. Remy then maybe Toulouse?
I'm struggling with figuring out an itinerary for a week in this area<<
If you felt some posters were rude, I believe it might have been in the responders understanding of your original question. It seemed that you had not read a book or looked at a map, or indicated what your interests were, nor till later that there were 8 traveling, and finally that the others are working on "other" options or parts of an overall trip.
I believe we all learn something from various posts and replies even if we think we know an area well - new restaurants, hotels, galleries, even a change in a map #, etc. So when it comes to asking the question and expecting a reply, responders have to know what to respond to. The more information from a poster, the better the replies.
But I do believe you now have an idea of what can and cannot be accomplished in 1-week and some places that many of us agree upon.
Guidebooks are always the best way to start and can spend as much time in a bookstore - just sit at a table or on the floor and browse thru as many that strike your fancy, takes notes - and you don't have to buy, though it's a good idea to have at least one book to take with you.
You'll also need a good driving map and the Michelin #528 (orange) is best for this area.
This was your original post:
>>Is it worth it to try and do five or six days in that area? Or do we move around to Aix, then St. Remy then maybe Toulouse?
I'm struggling with figuring out an itinerary for a week in this area<<
If you felt some posters were rude, I believe it might have been in the responders understanding of your original question. It seemed that you had not read a book or looked at a map, or indicated what your interests were, nor till later that there were 8 traveling, and finally that the others are working on "other" options or parts of an overall trip.
I believe we all learn something from various posts and replies even if we think we know an area well - new restaurants, hotels, galleries, even a change in a map #, etc. So when it comes to asking the question and expecting a reply, responders have to know what to respond to. The more information from a poster, the better the replies.
But I do believe you now have an idea of what can and cannot be accomplished in 1-week and some places that many of us agree upon.
Guidebooks are always the best way to start and can spend as much time in a bookstore - just sit at a table or on the floor and browse thru as many that strike your fancy, takes notes - and you don't have to buy, though it's a good idea to have at least one book to take with you.
You'll also need a good driving map and the Michelin #528 (orange) is best for this area.
Jan 9th, 2004, 03:07 PM
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Hi toile,
Why don't you put together a sample of each day's itinerary (it doesn't have to be fancy) and post it here. People will be more than happy to critique it telling you that xyz town is good for an hour or that the 3 towns you plan for the same day are too far apart to do justice. There was another post recently where someone did that to eliminate part of his itinerary and he received lots of good advice and was able to fine tune his sightseeing expectations.
We do honestly want to help others (you can see that by the enormous activity on this board) but sometimes it becomes frustrating because the people posting don't seem to have done any reading. I can see your problem is that you're overwhelmed by the choices and want opinions from others who have been to this area.
Why don't you put together a sample of each day's itinerary (it doesn't have to be fancy) and post it here. People will be more than happy to critique it telling you that xyz town is good for an hour or that the 3 towns you plan for the same day are too far apart to do justice. There was another post recently where someone did that to eliminate part of his itinerary and he received lots of good advice and was able to fine tune his sightseeing expectations.
We do honestly want to help others (you can see that by the enormous activity on this board) but sometimes it becomes frustrating because the people posting don't seem to have done any reading. I can see your problem is that you're overwhelmed by the choices and want opinions from others who have been to this area.
