Don't get me wrong, I think that this Fodor's forum is generally a good idea and the principle of exchanging experience, tips and hints is excellent. But please allow one gripe and that's that almost everyone's questions are virtually the same. And many of the answers are provided by the same people. That being the case, the forum risks dumbing down everyone's travel experience. <BR> <BR>I live in Prague -- one of the travel destinations most often asked about on this forum -- and I see the types of questions and answers. "What's a great hotel/pension/restaurant/gift/experience/view?" Always the answers are the same. And then I see it practice -- groups of tourists all eating the same place, staying the same place, buying the same things, expecting the same experience ... <BR> <BR>The result is that a potentially great trip is circumscribed from start to finish -- and what the tourist/visitor sees has next to nothing to do with the actual country/city visited. <BR> <BR>Naturally, this isn't the fault of this forum. It's a problem facing the entire travel industry -- even the very idea of travel itself. It's just that this forum may unwittingly reinforce the "dumbing down" tendency .... <BR> <BR>My advice is -- every once in a while -- visit a place without consulting a forum, buying a travel guide, booking a charming pension or doing anything else beforehand ... Arrive cold ... and that way, for better or for worse, you'll actually see the place you're visiting. <BR> <BR>Mark

You're right, Mark, about striking out on one's own. At least for me. But as much as adventure has always been a part of our American history and culture, I think that today's Americans only give it lip service. Most of us here only want to go to the "best" places where they will be "safe" (lots of questions on this topic!) and where there are few if any surprises. Many of us choose itineraries so that we can report back to the neighbors on places they've heard of and expect a report on! So much for adventure. <BR> <BR>If participants here really wanted adventure, they'd head out and find it instead of asking the kinds of questions they ask. Europe is still full of adventure-laden spots, including some well-known places which would still be thoroughly exciting if travelers experienced them without the advice they get here or from guidebooks. <BR> <BR>Your advice is well taken. All this forum banter carries with it a price tag that depletes your travel excitement coffers.

I agree with you Mark. When I went to a resturant in Paris that was recommended on this board and in Rick Steves books it was like being in NYC, totally filled with Americans. The next day we just wandered around and found a great place in which we were the only Americans. I like to go off and explore on my own but do use the boards to find info on which towns are popular (so I won't stay there but maybe visit) and places to eat for the same reason, though I do get some good info on many things. I try to stay away from guide books for restaurants because it seems that everyone reads them, then everyone eats at the same place like you mentioned. I think it is a catch 22. I think it is best to ask where you are staying for recommendations.

Unlike most Europeans, Americans get 3 or less weeks vacation A YEAR. When we do finally take a week or two, we haven't the luxury of 'wasting' a couple of days looking for a place to sleep, or getting lost. And I am speaking from personal experience: <BR>I get 3 weeks vacation; when I plan the Loons trips for 10-14 days, I've got a minute-by-minute itinerary - we don't have time to spare for mistakes, like planning to visit the Louvre and stopping by on Tuesday. And women have an agenda that men do NOT - concern for our safety is legitimate. We can't wander around a countryside looking for someplace to sleep, with an "oh well we can just sleep in this field". <BR> <BR>And trips to Europe cost serious coin. You can take a train to Vienna; I can take a train to Denver. To get to Vienna, I have to pay for an airplane ticket that could be upwards of $700; how much would it cost you to fly to Denver? Would you like to arrive in a strange city/country with no reservations, 10 days to visit, and not a clue where anything is? AND having spent nearly $1000 to get there? <BR> <BR>Yes, Mark, Americans do tend to overplan and micromanage. That's 'cause nobody ends up dead from 'too many' precautions. <BR> <BR>

I have great respect for what Mark has to say. The points he raised are thought-provoking. However, I would like to offer another point of view. I've never been to Prague, but I've visited a few other European cities without advance preparation, and, truthfully, I've always regretted it. <BR> <BR>Consider hotels, for example. Without advance reservations, I've always been tempted to stay at whatever hotel is convenient, and usually that means within a 20-minute walk of the train station. And that's fine, of course. But rather than giving me a true taste of the city, it has rather limited my experiences, I think. If there is a great hotel somewhere else in the city, I wouldn't even know it exists (without advance preparation, that is). <BR> <BR>The same goes, I think, for restaurants and other things that might interest visitors. <BR> <BR>If I might draw an analogy, think of New York City, which happens to be a few hours' drive from where I live. Everyone who goes to New York City knows to visit the Empire State Building, the Statue of Liberty and Central Park (as well they should!) but how many really know about the other great things the city has to offer. This is where forums and guidebooks really come in handy, I think. <BR> <BR>The one exception, I think, would be if I had more than a few days to spend in a given city, or if I visited there often. Then, I would have plenty of time to truly explore a city, discover its charms (and, hopefully, rely on the advice of locals and not the guidebooks). I actually got to know the city of Los Angeles this way. I've been there many times (a friend of mine once lived there) and I think I know parts of the city that tourists have never seen. And my experiences were certainly enriched for it. <BR> <BR>But for the most part, I'm a working stiff and only get a few weeks to travel each year. So I've come to rely heavily on the guidebooks and forums to bring me up to speed. <BR> <BR>Sorry, I didn't mean to go on for so long. I'm looking forward to reading everyone else's comments, too. Mark, even though I don't entirely agree, thanks for an interesting posting! <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>

Mark, your post is very interesting, and has validity, however, many people are taking a first trip, or a first trip to a new place, and want some recommendations. <BR> <BR>Just like any advice, some of it just isn't good, or is strictly one persons opinion....guess that goes for all of us. For example: I like the best hotels, and am willing to pay for them. I do not want to stay in some "adventure". I want to know that when the day is over, after riding the metro all over, seeing the sites, eating in assorted restaurants, that I will come back to a nice "home". Again, that is not what everyone wants. I took some recommendations for a hotel in Amsterdam, from this forum and several travel guides, and we thought it was horrible. <BR> <BR>I can see your point, but it is not just recommendations for restaurants on this site, restaurants have a reputation, and of course you will have more people at the more popular. Also, people will go to see the most well know tourist attractions. <BR> <BR>We like to get on a train and take day trips. It is a great way to get the feel of a country, and away from a busy city. Just roaming around, finding little interesting sites, places to eat, etc, are part of exploring. <BR> <BR>I always buy one or travel guides, and that is just what they are, a guide. Somethings are worth seeing, and others we are not interested in. <BR> <BR>Russ, I don't think people go to the "best" places so they will be "safe", but everyone has their comfort zone, and wants to take a taxi, and not ride the metro, or the bus, or even walk in an area that might not be safe to them. Again, their needs to be tolerance when people ask about wearing white sneakers, what hotel, where to go eat, etc. These are valid questions, and that is why people ask them. <BR> <BR>You live in Prague, a beautiful city, and I live in the US. I'm sure you would have just as many questions coming here, as someone visiting your city and country.

Actually, I think Mark is right. I'm doing a lot of postings and long tortuous e-mails about scotland and I fear that people are going on my holiday rather than their own. <BR> <BR>People who log in take ages to realise the existence of the search facility, which is why we get the reapeat questions. <BR> <BR>Without doubt the best trip I ever made was the one to the Pyrenees with the car the only thing I booked in advance; but my husband would consider that the holiday from hell.

Mark, <BR> <BR>Short answer to your question about why visitors micromanage their time: Time is money. So wasting time on an expensive trip is akin to wasting money.

I tend to agree with both Mark and Elvira but remember when Europeans (or anyone from other parts of the world) come to the U.S. they tend to visit "the same places" too and don't often strike out on some great adventure (unless they are under 25) without plans .. meaning hotels, rental cars, maps, guide books of "all those famous places" etc. We lived in LA for years and I am sure I do not have to tell you where all the tourists ended up but if you don't know it was Disneyland, Universal Studios, "the beach", looking for "stars" on a packaged bus tour of Beverly Hills, etc. Sure some strike out on their own, but not many. <BR> <BR>We have been to Europe enough times to not "do tourist things" all the time, but that comes with the luxury of having taken many trips. I can remember our first trips and we did all the tourist things. There may be places a person knows they are unlikely to ever get back to (for us it was Morocco) so you do tourist things first and if there is time left you can go further afield. <BR> <BR>We just came back from a trip to London and aside from The London Eye really did very little that you might call hitting the famous sights. We took a day trip (one of several) to Ely in Cambridgeshire and quite frankly I believe we were the only Americans in Ely that day (probably the only tourists as it was raining quite hard). We had a marvelous time -- we had British people ask us "why did you go to Ely?" "What made you go there" etc. <BR>On other trips we've gone to other smaller towns, we've driven and taken a train. We've gotten lost, met marvelous people and eaten in off the beaten path places. Because my husband has family in France we've had the luxury of being exposed to French family life, country flea markets (swap meets), visits to places no tourists ever see, etc. But again, this comes with having already seem the famous sights - and no matter how many times we go to Paris I still love going to the top of the Eiffel Tower (and always do). <BR> <BR>As folks say time is money, if your goal is to see the famous places then you cannot afford not to. Elvira is correct in that Americans do not get the extensive vacation leave that Europeans (or Australians) do so we tend to make the most of what we get, if that means overplanning well that is just how it goes. <BR> <BR>If it makes you feel better Mark, we always get away from the "tourist areas" and look for places to eat that the local people eat in, but I'd never travel without hotel reservations in advance. Recommendations on this board about hotels, etc. are priceless, they come from real people - not to say a guide book is not written by real people, but often their views are slanted and books are out of date quickly. If some one stayed in Hotel XYZ last week their opinions on the condition of the hotel are more relevant than those of a guidebook published 2 yrs ago. <BR> <BR>I live in the southwest now and believe me every tourist that gets out this way goes to the Grand Canyon and buys the same hokey stuff there ... people are people no matter where they come from.

I agree with Elvira. Most American travelers have a limited amount of time for vacation. Her point of being a single woman traveler is certainly well made. Additionally, many of us probably do not have the resources to travel overseas even annually. In these cases when taking a 1-2 week trip, it seems like a little planning would be the best way to maximize time and money. I suppose that if I lived in Europe, taking a quick unplanned trip to another country is not only something I might want to do more than once a year, but would also want to do in a more unplanned manner. Afterall, if it didn't work out or if I missed something, I could always go back a lot easier than if I lived in Denver or Las Vegas. <BR> <BR>Now, with that being said, I might agree that someone with time on their hands, such as a student during summer break with much time on their hands, might be advised to explore in a different fashion. In this case, total planning is certainly not necessary. <BR> <BR>The nice thing about this board is that one is able to get the actual recommendation of regular folks who have visited an area of interest. With those recommendations as well as what a guidebook has to offer, I believe that we can become better informed tourists. I for one tend to put more value in the recommendations of someone that has been there than simply taking a guidebook for face value. I believe that guidebooks tend to sugar coat even the worse experience. However, they are still useful as a point to begin researching a wonderful travel adventure.

I can see both sides to this as I've done it both ways. In the 70s we were stationed in Spain for 5 years. We were young, had little money and less common sense but we would take off in our little VW Beetle and drive for some place we heard was worth going to or some place we've always wanted to go. No itinerary in mind, we just went. We missed seeing some of the tourist stuff sometimes cause we didn't have the guidebooks or anyone to advise us but we had some other neat experiences. We drove up to Andorra the first time,having no idea what we would be seeing,we just wanted to see what a country that was 144 sq miles was like. We found a hotel when we arrived late at night and checked in and stayed there and the next day we just drove to see what was there. We did the same thing driving around Spain and France and Switzerland and northern Italy. One time we couldn't find anyplace we could afford to stay in Monte Carlo and wound up sleeping in the VW all night. We met lots of tourists from around Europe though and it was really neat. Now I'm much older and have kids that age. Now, before we leave home we make sure we have a hotel booked at least but as far as the rest goes, we do some planning to allow ourselves as much time as we need to do what we want to do but I like to leave time for unplanned things too. Personnally I don't like just hanging out where the tourists are all the time. <BR>Carol

Thank you, Mark, for an intriguing and provocative posting that may eventually set a record for its responses many of which, like mine, will be notoriously lengthy. Bare with me if you will. Consider first the "adventurousness" of many of the questioners to this forum. For many, the thought of coping with a strange and unknown culture, equally strange and probably unknown language and an unfamiliar currency is adventure enough. For them, there's a certain comfort in traveling in and partaking of the amenities in an area that's been recommended by a "survivor". These folks ricochet from the Louvre to Notre Dame to Sacre Couer to the Eiffel Tower and feel that they've come to know Paris. In reality they've seen a familiar part of Paris, but hardly experienced the city. (I'm frequently bemused by the postings that ask for recommendations for a Kensington hotel with restaurants and shops nearby and a tube stop on the corner. I wonder if the posters are visiting London or cloistering themselves in one of its "safer" neighborhoods.) <BR> <BR>There seem to be predominantly two basic types of people that partake of this forum. Those types became clearly evident about two years ago when I posted a query asking what the distinction was between a tourist and a traveler. Almost all of the newcomers raising questions about where to go, where to stay, what to see are tourists concerned with limited time, limited funds and the trepidation of what awaits them in an unfamiliar and potentially discomforting environment. These are prospective tourists to Europe that know that Washington D.C., an American tourist Mecca, has a mall luxuriant with its monuments and wealth of museum collections, but also an Anacostia where gunshots are heard with disturbing frequency. They are familiar with the inner city blight of many of America's cities and fear encountering the same in Europe. <BR> <BR>The traveler is a tourist who's gained experience and seeks more. Rather than racketing from attraction to attraction in Paris, he may choose to immerse himself for two weeks in the streets, alleys and byways that surround Paris' Parc des Buttes Chaumont becoming, for a time, a citoyen. Or he may feel perfectly comfortable "wasting" three days in a Swiss village watching a cow-judging contest held in the village's sole parking lot at the expense of never seeing an Alp. The traveler is no more an adventurer than the tourist and no less; each has his own adventure, whether it be coping with language, currency and the Metro, or coping with the delights of immersion in a culture. <BR> <BR>Even the most mundane questions posed here deserve attention and respect. The questioners have concerns, real or imagined that once resolved can lead to the beginnings of the rewards that travel has to offer. Happily, there is a strong contingent of patient, knowledgeable regulars to this forum more than willing to respond to those concerns. They warrant praise and appreciation. Would you offer a response to "What's a great hotel/pension/restaurant/gift/experience/view" that differed significantly from theirs? <BR> <BR>

Thanks for an interesting question. First I ALWAYS use a guide book for hotels and second I NEVER use a guide book for restaurants. <BR> <BR>A decade ago, I did a free form vacation beginnning from Nice - we did the south of France, visiting Aix-en-Provence, Nimes, Arles, etc. We stayed in a town called Narbonne one night without resevations and it was a tolerable experience. We also stayed at a fabulous country hotel near Carcassone with reservations and it was palatial. But this one day we traversed from SW FRance to NE France...by the time we got to Grenoble it was dark and raining - we had no reservations - finally we found a pensione - we checked in. Only one room available. A double bed when we needed two beds. Little did we know that right outside this room was the flashing hotel sign...and further we did not know that directly below our room on the third floor was a 'cruising for pickup' spot so there was noise from the street as well. And the bed had a horrible lump to it. <BR> <BR>What could we do? Nothing so instead of spending the entire night tortured - we left at 400 AM... <BR> <BR>I never leave a hotel to chance. I want to know where it is and I want to know my room is there waiting for me. You cannot get a room that YOU like without doing some research...and simply asking here in a forum isn't the only way to go. <BR> I will ask in the FORUM only after I have made a selection from the guide book..and am seeking an experienced opinion or two. <BR> <BR>As for restaurants - I recently was in Ireland - on a tour and didnt have to worry about that. But we did have one night off. I looked in the phone book for ideas...and for locations near the hotel...then I walked to the area and looked at the restaurants menu and even walked in...to check it out. It was an Indian restaurant and it was fine. <BR> <BR>In Singapore last November - I had a heck of a time deciding - because there were literally hundreds of choices. If you went to an area were there were many mnay restaurants - specifically along the Quay in Singapore...there were literally dozens - one after the other - chock-a-block. And each was filled. How do you decide? <BR> <BR>I think you can never go by recommendations. You must let your sight and senses and wallet and feet decided where to eat. <BR> <BR>Anyone who makes vacation plans solely from this board's recommendations or opinions is not dumbing down - they maybe just don't like to buy books... <BR> <BR>Really it isn't the recommendations that you do follow that are problematic. It is instead the warnings and advices to avoid that are ignored that become problems. <BR> <BR>Michael

I don't think this forum dumbs down people's experiences. I think some people aren't that adventurous regardless. However, I see nothing wrong with getting advice about not-to-be missed sights/food/etc., and still striking off on my own. <BR> <BR>One thing I'd rather avoid is coming home and having people say, "What? You went all the way to so-and-so and you didn't see the so-and-so?! You missed the best part."

There are lots of good points in this thread. I studied tourism and travel (the economics and ecology thereof) briefly in a previous life, and the issues remain the same. It reminds me of one of the classic problems in quantum physics – how do you observe a reality without altering it? How can you march into Dürnstein, a darling lower Austria village, population a few, clutching Rick Steves’ suggestions, and NOT expect to find a hundred others there trying to partake of the same medieval ambience you are? It’s just not realistic in this day of near-perfect communication. <BR> <BR>I think one of the problems, Mark, is that some cities seem to become the “flavor of the week,” and Prague (and Edinburgh and Brugge and a few other places) are the current big hits. I lived in San Francisco when it was declared “everyone’s favorite city” in some poll, and it was hellish for a few years, until everyone had been there and done that. I now live in Seattle and we’re just emerging from a period of hyper-popularity (aided in passing by the WTO – thanks.). <BR> <BR>As disposable income increases (watch out, eastern Europe) people will look for beauty, authenticity, history, and entertainment, and places with a surplus of those assets are at risk. For a while. Then they will go one of two or three routes: figure out how to cope with it (San Francisco), become a museum or amusement park (no names but I have nominees) or keep struggling against a growing and increasingly vital part of your economy. Eventually, the places which become known as unwelcoming to, or overwhelmed by, tourists, will find that travel agents, Fodor posters and others will get the word around, and their problem will be lessened. I can name several once mega-popular destinations where the locals are bewildered and trying to get the folks back. Watney’s Red Barrel, anyone? <BR> <BR>Spontaneous travel is a great idea, but Elvira’s right. People don’t want to risk thousands on travel only to find that the hotel is full or the museum is being fumigated. So they plan, and they rely on guide books and word-of-mouth. It was that way a hundred years ago, there’re just more of us now. <BR>

The "time is money" approach to travel is not, IMHO, a result of restricted American vacation time. We would travel in exactly the same fashion if we had a month every year. It is more an outcropping our culture-specific way of thinking. Here, it's all about work. For many, vacations are just another venue for displaying one's own "productivity", for seeing as much as possible in as little time as possible. Like April, a lot of us need to give an acceptable report to our "stockholders" (neighbors, friends) when we get home. Travel is not a vehicle for personal adventure, but almost a kind of ritual responsibility. <BR> <BR>Yes, it's good to plan so that you're not on the sidewalk at 2:00 a.m. But I think a lot of Americans plan so extensively that there is virtually no uncertainty in their experiences. Asking where to eat 3 months from now or what the weather will be like half way around the globe displays a kind of unhealthy paranoia about life, if you ask me. In my conversations with Europeans, I have often have heard that we seem "afraid" of things foreign or unpredictable for no good reason.

I travel solo very differently from when I take a group of people. Obviously with others "under my wing", I have to plan. <BR> <BR>But when I travel solo, I try to plan EVERY night's lodging, so that I have plenty of time TO EXPLORE! I can do all the research about where to stay, here at my computer, so that I can fill the day - - every waking hour, absorbing where I am - - stuff I can NOT (perhaps) find on the internet. And I can push the day to the max (because I am so often trying to learn as much about places as possible) - - often driving one to several hours, AFTER supper, safe and secure knowing that I can pull into a place to stay that will be what I expect of it - - at 10 or 11 or midnight, and hit the sack. <BR> <BR>I agree with others on this point: hats off to Mark for starting a great thread.

I guess I was unclear. I didn't mean that I felt a responsibility to report to others when I got home, Russ, but rather that I'd hate to miss something outstanding because I didn't do any research. <BR> <BR>I think one can be informed yet still be spontaneous. Personally I find that "following my nose" often leads to interesting experiences. <BR>

Russ, I really don't get your point at being so hard on American travelers. We are not different than most from any place on the globe. There are some that want to "brag" about where they went, to the stockholders....but usually they are too busy to even want to travel. Most people travel because they like to, and what's the big deal about being organized? It isn't any more different than making a grocery list before you charge off to the store......I sure would hate to miss something. So, I don't know why you travel, but we have no one to impress, nor stock holders to report to. We travel because we enjoy it, and visiting new places is stimulating. Frankly, someone should start a thread about people that drive around in $200,000 motor homes...can't get to Europe or Asia in one of those.

Yep, you're right Merriam. And I don't do groceries lists either. <BR> <BR>Can we not just agree that we're all made different and some like it one way and some another?