I keep reading about thieves and pickpockets in Italy. I will be travelling with a high school tour group. Do you think it necessary to get one of those under-the-clothes security wallets for passport etc. I usually carry a fannypack and keep it in front in crowded areas and have never had a problem in cities in US, England, Holland. <BR><BR>After reading the thread on ATM debit cards I will get mine changed before I go- thanks. Will also warn the other students.

I've never been a victim of a pickpocket at home or abroad (including Italy) and I don't use security wallets or fanny packs. I live in New York City. Perhaps those of us who live in large cities are more used to daily caution and awareness of our surroundings, developing more of a 6th sense, but without walking around feeling scared or paranoid. <BR>To tell you the truth, a large group of kids all wearing fanny packs or back packs could definitely be seen as easy targets, so I would have a talk with all about caution if they're not used to cities. I think people should take whatever precautions they feel are necessary for their well-being and enjoyment.<BR>If you do a search on this message board for fanny pack or security wallets you will find many comments, cons as well as pros.

I strongly caution against fanny packs. Keeping them in front of you isn't as safe as you may think. Thieves are very adept at taking them in a matter of a split second or two without you being aware of what's happening. <BR>And, further, I would strongly caution your students even if they are city-experienced!

One of the places I had NO problem was NYC, a wonderful city that we enjoyed thoroughly. If people don't use fanny packs what DO they use? I hate to carry a purse but need something to hold small camera, credit card, cash etc. Any ideas are welcome. Chris

Chris,<BR>If you're traveling with a tour group on their bus (as opposed to the whole group going on mass transit), you probably won't have a problem.<BR><BR>That's still no guarantee. The only time I've ever had this problem was getting on a bus (number 67 or 69 if memory serves me) in Rome to the Vatican. This is, I discovered later, a big "tourist" public bus and well-known for pickpocket problems because it's generally packed. I had my shoulder bag looped around my neck, bag part in front of me, zipped up completely, and holding onto the bag. After a very nice (!) gentleman gave me his seat and exited the bus, I sat down and noticed the zipper was open and my wallet gone. A nice clean pick, I must say. Thankfully, he didn't grab my passport (which I had only taken to get traveler's cheques changed), and nothing other than my ego was hurt. I had, however, heeded the advice of others, and only had 1 credit card (Am Ex)and the money in my wallet (the rest in the hotel safe), so it wasn't a complete loss. On the upside, after spending an interesting hour at the police station (think field trip!) to fill out a report which was needed to get a new credit card, the American Express office was located right next to the Spanish steps and were able to issue me a new card (and cancel the stolen one) in 45 minutes. And the police report makes a nifty souvenir!

Fanny packs do look like an invitation, don't they? <BR><BR>The slim,linen model of under T-shirt worked well when we took a group of 17/18-year-olds to Rome, Florence et al last time. <BR><BR>The only one who was hassled insisted on a purse and claimed that she couldn't live without it and had never been troubled in her home town (NY) when wearing the strap across the chest. Apparently Florentine pickpockets did not play by NY rules and there were many tears and much phoning home for more money, passport replacement...well you get the idea.<BR><BR>Do yourself a favour and make a proper security-belt or aound-the neck-and-under-the-shirt "wallet" mandatory. Cameras are not as big a target and therefore less of a problem.

Chris, carry a small canvas bag with a wide strap across your body, with the bag in front of you. I even make sure the opening part of the zipper in right in front of me, so that no can unzip it without me being aware. The wide strap (say, an inch wide) is important in that it's hard for someone to rip it off you.

For another set of opinions on this topic<BR>www.twenj.net<BR>I wanted to add something on the issue of petty crime specifically in Rome Last fall I didn't see any, thank goodness but I'm certainly not saying there isn't any. I was on two occasions approached by two children seemingly on their own (never has the word "urchin" seemed more appropriate) and they were holding pieces of cardboard. I waved them off before they even got close, and they walked away. I did see several people begging, but they were just sitting on the sidewalk looking pitiful, with a sign that said in Italian, "I'm hungry and I have children." I did not approach them, but I did leave offerings in several churches to assuage my guilt. <BR><BR>Advance publicity on Rome had led even this hardened New Yorker to wonder if I should finally invest in a hidden wallet of some kind. I didn't, I just used the same black microfiber shoulder-tote bag I always use. It is my purse as well as my totebag as well as my one and only airplane carry-on (I check the other bag). It has several internal, deep, zippered compartments in which I distribute my valuables. I'm not telling other people not to use security wallets, I just never have. <BR>Men should carry their wallets and passports in front, inside pockets, or in a female companion’s closed tote bag. (Don’t forget to take the wallet back if you are going your separate ways for a while!) When I leave a sales counter where I’ve just used my wallet, I take an extra few seconds to put my money away and put my wallet deep inside my tote bag.

I bought a "security fanny pack" from Magellans a couple of years ago and I love it. It has a steel cable running completely through the waist belt that prevents cutting. I added a small “horse halter” clip that I bought at a hardware store that requires a certain amount of dexterity to undo to the waist buckle. The buckle is covered with a wraparound nylon cover, which prevents anybody from seeing just how it is buckled. The zippers to the inside have even smaller versions of the horse halter buckles that require two hands to undo. It has pockets within pockets that even foil anybody who tries to cut the pack with a razor blade. Two years ago I used the one a two week trip to London and Paris. We took a boat ride on the Seine. You know the one’s - they take pictures of the embarking passengers to sell after the boat has returned. As we were checking the pictures out, I caught a kid of about 18 fumbling with the zippers trying to get into my fanny pack. I’m not sure how it happened but he got three broken fingers in the scuffle, weak bones or a calcium deficiency possibly. The police officer that happened upon the scene thought it was hilarious, and the tour leader wanted to refund my money for the boat trip saying she had never witnessed anything like it.<BR><BR>Seriously, check out Magellans web site. Although I made a number of modifications to the pack, I think the stuff they sell is pretty well made.<BR>

I think a security pouch will ease your mind so you can enjoy your surroundings without worry about where your passport, etc. is.

I carry an around-the-neck pouch between outer and middle layer of clothing -- never have travelled abroad in the heat of summer, so concealment under skimpy tops has never been a problem. I also carry a purse -- black microfiber with no unzippered openings, across my body, for maps, guide books, cameras, folding umbrellas, water, etc. etc. Its not huge -- really a purse, not a tote. I have travelled as a chaperone to Italy, Greece, England, France & Spain with groups of middle and high school age students and highly recommend that some sort of security pouch be MANDATORY -- no purses, no wallets for passports, money etc. Our kids travelled mainly with neckpouches under their shirts which seemed more convenient and backpacks worn on the front and locked with luggage locks for other necessities. Also, remind them to lock their (valuable) stuff up before they leave their rooms for a day of sightseeing -- cd players, cds, money etc. will disappear if left in the open sometimes/someplaces. Most teenagers just aren't used to thinking about their personal security.

Lori-I'm going to go with your approach. I ordered a cute small microfiber purse from Magellan's for $38 which can carry sunglasses, hopefully small camera etc for most sojourns. I will get a small neck security wallet for times I feel more vulnerable and have to carry my passport. The guy at the store showed me how you can put the cord across your body, like a purse and then tuck the wallet into your pants so its not hanging around your neck. Thanks for all your advise, all. I can't wait. Chris

We just came back from Rome, and foud it to be very safe. However we did witness one attempted pickpocketing incident by the Forum. For my own peace of mind, I never carry a convetional wallet when traveling. My favorite is the cloth pouch that hooks onto your belt, and <BR>slides down inside your pants.

Chris, you need to believe me on this. Get an Eagle Creek money belt and never part with it. <BR>Keep your passport, plane ticket, extra US dollars and at least one credit card in there AT ALL TIMES. Fanny packs are fine for things you can stand to lose. I live in NYC also, but the issue here is being abroad. Trust me Chris, this is the best travel advice I can give. I speak form experience...you do not want to take a chance losing these things. Even it it makes your stomach hot and sweaty, it's better than sleeping on the steps of the Amercian embassy, thirsty, starving and freaked out with weirdos harassing you.

Travelled solo to Italy last summer and it was my first trip abroad. The first night I was out quite late,(after 1 p.m.) after having toured Rome with a group. I was set in the right direction home and had quite a walk through the streets of Rome at a very late hour. It was near the Spanish Steps and I carried a bag across my body which had a steel cable built in. You can find these bags at travelsmith or at daymakers of santa barbara. No one even bothered me and there were police all over. Maybe I was just lucky, don't know.

Sorry...left out that I had my money and cc in an "arm-safe" which is just an elastic pocket worn around the upper arm which is concealed by your shirt (unless it's sleeveless). There were definately items I needed in the bag but they probably wouldn't have been of much use to a thief. Copy of passport was in arm-band as well.

I heartily endorse Trust Me's advice, and I'm also speaking from experience. I've lived in urban areas, I'm pretty street-smart, but you can't spend every second of your vacation being super-vigilant, and all it takes is one second for a bag-grab. After three trips to Italy I could have said "I've never had a problem, so I don't need a money belt." Fortunately, I didn't, so on my fourth trip when the kids on a motor scooter pulled off my shoulder bag, at least I didn't have to hassle with replacing my passport, ATM card, or credit card.

Dear Trust me, trust me too. I really appreciate your advice and concern. I don't live in NYC but have traveled there without a problem with my teenage son. We live in the Bay Area and have never had a problem with San Francisco. I don't consider myself paranoid but have heard numerous stories about Italy (even before reading posts on this board). A relative had her purse snatched out of her CAR while sitting in traffic in Naples. When she called the CC company to get a replacement, the clerk advised her to have it sent to Rome rather than Naples so it would not be stolen again! Another friend (seasoned traveler)had her purse stolen in Barcelona. I'm definitely getting an Eagle Creek wallet (they are only $12) and a small purse with a cable in the strap from Magellans. Thank you all for your advise. Chris

Didn't mean to leave out Pam. Thank you.