Link to article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/09/wo...03&ei=5070

I didn't realize that Italy had such a corrupt economy -- 30% black market.

Catholic ethics??

>specific examples
Mo**l6 charges 75$ for a "room" and nobody complains. ;-) Isn't this discriminating foreigners.

Why don't you go somewhere else, if you don't like Rome... There are alternatives.

Logos, I'm surprised by your attitude. It is obvious that people love Rome so much that they are willing to tolerate a few questionable practices at restaurants.

So, everything is fine. Don't go there like you wouldn't go to rip-off places in the US or anywhere, where's the problem, where's the need for discussion? I don't get overcharged more than once, you'd loose 10-20€ max., so what?

Overcharging visitors reflects poorly on both the people of Rome and all of Italy.

Character?
Ethics?
Integrity?

Italians shouldn't stand for it.

Try some arab countries, africa, china....

My girl friend and her husband just got back from Italy. She mentioned that vendors are definitely sketchy to tourists in Rome. Her husband, an American Italian who speaks no Italian at all, ordered a cappuccino (in his standard American accent) and was charged 4 Euros. He went back another day to the same place and ordered from another person. This time, he ordered "un cappuccino" with an Italian accent (he picked it up listening to locals order) and they only charged him 1 Euro... guess it helped that he looked Italian! :-)

>charged 4 Euros
It's puzzling to me, why he didn't make a scene like any european tourist would. You can go to Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia if you need training. They are the best. ;-)

Seriously, what should one do if one believes he/she is getting screwed? I'll be in Rome next month and would appreciate suggestions.

Don't the menus show prices?? If the menu shows 1 euro for a cap, why pay 4?

Gekko, Even though they are supposed to have their menus visible, they aren't always.

It's happened to me a couple of times over coffee. One time, I asked for a caffe lungo, which is an espresso with a tad bit more of hot water. They charged me for a caffe corretto, which is a coffee plus a shot of liquor. I pointed it out and the waitress came back saying, "The owner says it is correct." The option was to stand there and argue over 1 euro in a crowded restaurant or do what we chose to do, which was leave without rounding up the bill as we usually do. None of this mattered that I speak fluent Italian.

You asked, "Seriously, what should one do if one believes he/she is getting screwed?"

Say, "Non mi prendere per un culo!" which translates, "Don't take me for an a@@!" OR, do what I ended up doing which is, I ask. I'm very specific. I ask, "How much is it for two people to have two "caffe lunghi" outside seated at that table?" People are kind of taken aback, but I respond, "I don't like surprises." And guess what? No more surprises!

Hmm, maybe shearing tourists hasn't made it to Beijing yet. I climbed the mountain (well, maybe high, steep hill is more accurate) that surrounds the lake in the Summer Palace last July. The heat, the humidity, and the climb was dangerous for even other people, who are in good shape. There was a vendor selling partially frozen water, and when she told me what I thought was the equivalent of $10, I happily thrust the money at her. She patiently counted out my $9 in change.

But don't ask me about the London "black taxi" (not, please note, Black taxi)driver in Bloomsbury a few years ago.

Pilates, great advice. I speak French but not Italian, so I'm a little apprehensive about dealing with the locals, which I love to do in countries where I speak the language.

I think a few people missed the point-the article in the NYTimes was not about English verus Italian-only about the difference in charges for tourists.Yes-it does happen-we had in on Capri-however-we go to Italy next month-and we will not look at an English-menu-we may not be able to speak or know the language but I think we should learn the foods of a country -in a simple phrase book.Sandper

Several countries have a "local" charge and a "tourist" charge for things like museums, air tickets. This is the first I heard of different menu charges!

We always look at meunus before going into the restuarant. And I remeber the prices of the dishes on the menus to compare with the bill afterwards. But it has never occured to me to remember the charge from the hanging menu to compare with the printed menu.
Thanks for the tip.

Regarding the different price for coffee two days running, I have one comment. Coffee is more expensive if you sit down than if you stand at the bar. I don't know if that was a factor in the different price for coffee, but I thought I would mention this. You pay extra for the table.

Faux St.Marie is right..that has been true as long as I have gone to Italy..going back to the 1970's. EXCEPT, is some places the residents that are well know customers (especially in small towns) do not pay additional to have their coffee or a drink at a table be it inside or outside. And there is one town in Italy where I don't.

This type of pricing is all too common in every country, including our own---just not for restaurants. We've had lots of work done on our new (to us) house since we bought it last Nov. I would get price quotes much higher than what I expected from other peoples' experiences. I finally saw the light, and had plans drawn up for projects ( built-in furniture and bookcases, for example)and took those myself in person to various cabinetmakers. Some insisted on coming to our house to measure themselves, even though that was unnecessary. Without exception, the bids from those who came onsite to measure were much higher than the ones that simply quoted a price from the plans. In one case it was 100% more! Obviously, the price wasn't fixed; it was based on your perceived ability to pay.

I guess the bottom line is that people will take advantage of you if they think you can 1. afford it, and 2. will pay up.

> Doesn't EVERYONE everywhere speak English???

Of course, but they often *wont* speak American! If you have the ability, try putting on a non-North American lilt to your English and see what a difference it can make!

Bill_Bolton, even residents of Italy that do NOT live in Rome are complaining about restaurants in Rome.

It is not an American vs Italian situation.

And just FYI, I know for a fact that some Italians are more generous to Americans than say the British. Sad but true.