Rhine Valley questions
Jun 23rd, 2008, 05:27 PM
#1
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Rhine Valley questions
We're planning a very rushed trip through the Rhine Valley and Romantic Road in October. We're getting a rail pass and staying in hostels, so we're definitely going on the cheap, but I'm not sure the best way to see what we want to see. Suggestions for castles in the Rhine on a very short trip and small budget? We only have about 5 days total to get from Salzburg to Bruges, and Neuschwanstein and Rothenburg are musts.
How long should we leave for Rothenburg? We had planned to arrive the afternoon of one day, and leave in the evening of the next--is 24 hours enough?
Also, we had planned to stay at the hostel in Bacharach (simply because it gets such raves) before going on to Belgium. My husband would like to see the Lorelei Cliffs, and since the train to Bruges goes through Koln anyway, I'd like to stop and at least see the cathedral--can we do both in one day? Can you see the cliffs from the train, or is it really worth the boat trip? I haven't been able to find much info on Lorelei except the intriguing teases in my guidebook, and the searches on here have confused me even more. Thanks!
How long should we leave for Rothenburg? We had planned to arrive the afternoon of one day, and leave in the evening of the next--is 24 hours enough?
Also, we had planned to stay at the hostel in Bacharach (simply because it gets such raves) before going on to Belgium. My husband would like to see the Lorelei Cliffs, and since the train to Bruges goes through Koln anyway, I'd like to stop and at least see the cathedral--can we do both in one day? Can you see the cliffs from the train, or is it really worth the boat trip? I haven't been able to find much info on Lorelei except the intriguing teases in my guidebook, and the searches on here have confused me even more. Thanks!
Jun 23rd, 2008, 06:38 PM
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We spent two nights in Rothenburg, but I imagine you can see it in the time you have allowed. I enjoyed the evening when the crowds had left the town and the early morning before the busses arrived! We stayed in Bacharach on the Rhine and I met people who loved the hostel. Depending upon your rail pass you might be able to use it for the short trip up the Rhine on the K-D boat. We rode the stretch between Bacharach and St. Goar to see the castles and the Loralei Rock, then we took the train for the other part of the trip. I don't remember from the train what side of the river you are on (we came back in the late evening) so I can't help with your question if you can see the Loralei from the train. I love traveling throughout Germany. Enjoy your time there!
Jun 23rd, 2008, 06:48 PM
#3
Hi,
Your time for Rothenburg is fine in my opinion. We were there last October. Do go on the Nightwatchman's tour. Informative and entertaining! It starts at 8pm, no reservations or tickets needed, just show up in the main square.
www.nightwatchman.de
Try to walk along some of the wall either after the tour or in the am. Also, St. Jacobs church and the Crime and Punishment Museum are very worthwhile.
Castles along the Rhine... Marksburg was very good.
www.marksburg.de
More castles are at:
www.mediaspec.com/castles/rhein/index.html
Lorelei... can't help you since we didn't bother.
This site may be of help:
www.loreley-rhine.com/lorelei-legend.htm
Hope this helps.
Paul
Your time for Rothenburg is fine in my opinion. We were there last October. Do go on the Nightwatchman's tour. Informative and entertaining! It starts at 8pm, no reservations or tickets needed, just show up in the main square.
www.nightwatchman.de
Try to walk along some of the wall either after the tour or in the am. Also, St. Jacobs church and the Crime and Punishment Museum are very worthwhile.
Castles along the Rhine... Marksburg was very good.
www.marksburg.de
More castles are at:
www.mediaspec.com/castles/rhein/index.html
Lorelei... can't help you since we didn't bother.
This site may be of help:
www.loreley-rhine.com/lorelei-legend.htm
Hope this helps.
Paul
Jun 24th, 2008, 02:29 AM
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Burg Stahleck (Bacharach) Hostel: there's a downside. Often booked well in advance; often occupied by noisy schoolkids during the school year; access by foot is not for the wimpy or those with much baggage - it's around 500 steps up to the castle up a stone stairway from the center of town. You may make it, but you won't want to venture back into town.
If you stay in St. Goar instead, you may still have the noisy kids, but the hostel there (in an old villa just below Rheinfels castle) is an easy uphill walk from town and has a lovely view of the town, the river gorge, and Katz Castle across the river. It's cheaper too. Also, you're much closer to the Lorelei. You can hike up the path that begins just to the right of the train station and walk the cliffside trail down to "Loreleyblick", a lookout point, and spot the cliffs just across the river. A lovely view.
If you prefer you can hike to the cliffs themselves by ferrying across to St. Goarshausen and walking from there. The "Rheinsteig" is a newly dedicated trail that connects towns on the opposite bank of the Rhine and undoubtedly hits the Lorelei cliffs.
The must-do thing on the Rhine is a tour of Marksburg Castle in Braubach - also on the east bank of the Rhine, north of St. Goarshausen just before Koblenz. Also, a mere 2 km north of St. Goarshausen is Castle Mouse (Burg Maus) where you can get in on a falconry show on the castle grounds.
If you stay in St. Goar instead, you may still have the noisy kids, but the hostel there (in an old villa just below Rheinfels castle) is an easy uphill walk from town and has a lovely view of the town, the river gorge, and Katz Castle across the river. It's cheaper too. Also, you're much closer to the Lorelei. You can hike up the path that begins just to the right of the train station and walk the cliffside trail down to "Loreleyblick", a lookout point, and spot the cliffs just across the river. A lovely view.
If you prefer you can hike to the cliffs themselves by ferrying across to St. Goarshausen and walking from there. The "Rheinsteig" is a newly dedicated trail that connects towns on the opposite bank of the Rhine and undoubtedly hits the Lorelei cliffs.
The must-do thing on the Rhine is a tour of Marksburg Castle in Braubach - also on the east bank of the Rhine, north of St. Goarshausen just before Koblenz. Also, a mere 2 km north of St. Goarshausen is Castle Mouse (Burg Maus) where you can get in on a falconry show on the castle grounds.
Jun 25th, 2008, 05:50 PM
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Thanks for the replies. If I may, a few more questions--
Russ--How long would you suggest for the hike from St. Goar to see Lorelei? We're both young and in good shape. How long for Marksburg castle? I have to get a better guidebook--it's not even mentioned in mine. Definitely interested in the falconry show as well--can we get to St. Goar and/or St. Goarshausen by train, or do we need to ferry across? The details of the Rhine are somehow confusing me this week...=)
Russ--How long would you suggest for the hike from St. Goar to see Lorelei? We're both young and in good shape. How long for Marksburg castle? I have to get a better guidebook--it's not even mentioned in mine. Definitely interested in the falconry show as well--can we get to St. Goar and/or St. Goarshausen by train, or do we need to ferry across? The details of the Rhine are somehow confusing me this week...=)
Jun 26th, 2008, 12:53 AM
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> I can't help with your question if you can see the Loralei from the train.
You can see Lorelei if you take the left shore train line. The Lorelei is on the right shore and the righ shore line just tunnels through the Lorelei.
St. Goar and St. Goarshausen are opposite each other, so you need tot take a ferry from one to the other. Both have a train station.
I agree with one of the posters - take some time and walk along the Rheinsteig to get the best views of the Rhine valley.
In Cologne, the cathedral looms directly above the main station. it´s not even a 5 minute walk from teh station to the cathedral entrance.
You can see Lorelei if you take the left shore train line. The Lorelei is on the right shore and the righ shore line just tunnels through the Lorelei.
St. Goar and St. Goarshausen are opposite each other, so you need tot take a ferry from one to the other. Both have a train station.
I agree with one of the posters - take some time and walk along the Rheinsteig to get the best views of the Rhine valley.
In Cologne, the cathedral looms directly above the main station. it´s not even a 5 minute walk from teh station to the cathedral entrance.
Jun 26th, 2008, 05:30 AM
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"Russ--How long would you suggest for the hike from St. Goar to see Lorelei?"
IF you mean hiking to the lookout I mentioned, looking across the river at the Loreley cliffs from the St. goar side, my feeble memory tells me it's around 45 min. each way - a lovely walk that hugs the cliffs much of the way but also takes you through pasture and dips into a ravine here and there before delivering you to the lookout. The first part is straight up the cliffs via some stairs and a steep trail - the rest is easy walking. The path along the cliffs is marked with small grape-bunch icons on wood.
There are actually 2 lookouts - one called Loreleyblick that's midway between St. Goar and a second lookout immediately opposite the Loreley called "Maria Ruh" which is the one I was thinking of.
This sketch shows you where they are:
www.rheinhotel-st-goar.de/wander5.jpg
After the Loreleyblick, the path shown here takes you far inland on the way to Urbar. But you don't have to go there - after Loreleyblick lookout, there's another trail that heads off to your left down through the brush to the Seelenbach (creek) and then up and out of the little creek gorge heading back toward the cliffs and Maria Ruh. Much shorter this way. I believe this trail is marked.
You can check in with the tourist info office in St. Goar to get whatever tips they might offer for this hike.
"We're both young and in good shape. How long for Marksburg castle?"
It will take 25+ min to walk each way from town - a steep climb - or take the little shuttle from the town center. The tour is about 50 min. I think.
"I have to get a better guidebook--it's not even mentioned in mine. Definitely interested in the falconry show as well--can we get to St. Goar and/or St. Goarshausen by train, or do we need to ferry across? The details of the Rhine are somehow confusing me this week...=)"
Just ferry across - it's about 2 minutes and maybe a Euro or two. Once in St. Goarshausen, walk down the main drag to your left to reach the train station.
IF you mean hiking to the lookout I mentioned, looking across the river at the Loreley cliffs from the St. goar side, my feeble memory tells me it's around 45 min. each way - a lovely walk that hugs the cliffs much of the way but also takes you through pasture and dips into a ravine here and there before delivering you to the lookout. The first part is straight up the cliffs via some stairs and a steep trail - the rest is easy walking. The path along the cliffs is marked with small grape-bunch icons on wood.
There are actually 2 lookouts - one called Loreleyblick that's midway between St. Goar and a second lookout immediately opposite the Loreley called "Maria Ruh" which is the one I was thinking of.
This sketch shows you where they are:
www.rheinhotel-st-goar.de/wander5.jpg
After the Loreleyblick, the path shown here takes you far inland on the way to Urbar. But you don't have to go there - after Loreleyblick lookout, there's another trail that heads off to your left down through the brush to the Seelenbach (creek) and then up and out of the little creek gorge heading back toward the cliffs and Maria Ruh. Much shorter this way. I believe this trail is marked.
You can check in with the tourist info office in St. Goar to get whatever tips they might offer for this hike.
"We're both young and in good shape. How long for Marksburg castle?"
It will take 25+ min to walk each way from town - a steep climb - or take the little shuttle from the town center. The tour is about 50 min. I think.
"I have to get a better guidebook--it's not even mentioned in mine. Definitely interested in the falconry show as well--can we get to St. Goar and/or St. Goarshausen by train, or do we need to ferry across? The details of the Rhine are somehow confusing me this week...=)"
Just ferry across - it's about 2 minutes and maybe a Euro or two. Once in St. Goarshausen, walk down the main drag to your left to reach the train station.
Jun 26th, 2008, 05:35 AM
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We really really enjoyed the boat trip down the Rhine if you have any time or money to do it.
Koln is famous for kolsch beer. Be sure to visit Frue or another brewery. They are so cute! A great souvenier is the little kolsch beer glasses they sell with their logos. They are very cheap and only found in Koln.
Koln is famous for kolsch beer. Be sure to visit Frue or another brewery. They are so cute! A great souvenier is the little kolsch beer glasses they sell with their logos. They are very cheap and only found in Koln.
Jun 26th, 2008, 05:40 AM
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Regarding the sketch of the trail to Maria Ruh: the total length of the circular route depicted is 11 km; I'd guess the path to Maria Ruh at around 3-4 km at most. Also, that part of the route that is adjacent to the Rhine on the map is actually at river level and makes for an uneventful walk - I'd suggest returning to St. Goar along the same path you came for the best views (return hikes always look very different to me anyway.)
Jun 26th, 2008, 05:46 AM
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Ha! One more note. To get to Burg Maus and the falconry show from St. Goarshausen: I'm not aware of any public transportation. It's a lengthy walk along the river north to Wellmich. You can see the castle easily from St. Goar itself. You could also rent bikes in St. Goar (shop is on a side street near the station, some hosts provide bikes too) and ferry across with the bike for the ride north to Burg Maus. Falconry shows are at 11:00 and 2:30 with an additional show at 4:30 on Sun and holidays.
Jun 26th, 2008, 05:55 AM
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For lots of German trains and railpasses i always point out two fab sites - www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com as they have loads of content besides the usual pass prices and an 'add to cart button' - from the latter site you can also download their free European Planning & Rail guide, a primer on using european trains and there is a separate chapter on Germany and things on most places you are going. Note if taking the Romantic Road bus there has been a seemingly radical change in that this bus appears now to be a sightseeing tour bus and not just transporation as before (and loads more expensive as it appears to include a night's stay in a hotel - yet railpass holders do get 20% off the package (and not have to use a day on a flexipass since it's a discount and not 100% valid). Rest assured you can reach most Romantic road towns by rail.
