Revised 5 week trip with dd
 

Okay - after a lot of research, pulling my hair out - you all banging on your key boards to help me out - I have figured out the first part of my trip with DD at the end of September - and still need to work through the last 10 days or so.

Here we go:
September 25 - Depart LAX
September 26 arrive LHR 2:40 pm Train to Brugge (hope I got that right Ira!)
September 26, 27, 28 Brugge

I realize this might be too long for some - but I am traveling with my 11 year old daughter. We get in late on the 26 so we will have 2 full days and the first one I imagine she will be dealing with jetlag.

We are staying here:www.huyzehertsberge.be

My cousin just left there and loved it. I got a rate of 140.00 Euros p/n including breakfast taxes etc.


September 29 Haarlem - Ann Frank house
September 30 Haarlem

Staying here in Haarlem - I know that most would have stayed in AMS but after a lot of thought/reading I have opted to stay in Haarlem:
http://www.stempelsinhaarlem.nl/index.php?lang=en

It is 215.00 E total for the two nights.

October 1 we will leave for Baden Baden - stopping in Cologne for a few hours and then onto Baden Baden where we will stay:

October 1, 2, 3, departing on the 4th.

We will not arrive till early evening on the 1.

We are going to go to the more modest of the two baths, perhaps train to Strasbourg and just enjoy.

We are staying at http://www.hotel-am-markt-baden.de/ for 80 Euros a night including breakfast.

We fly to Rome on October 4 on Ryan air from Baden Baden.

I need to find a place to sleep by the train station on the Oct 4. Or I will be using points at a Starwood or Hilton. I need to confirm this.

On the 5th we will head to Lecce to check into our apartment for 3 weeks at the Immersion school.

That is October 5 - October 25.

We fly back to LAX from LHR on November 4.

I am going to plan the time in Italy for the last week plus and then hopefully be able to go to London around 3 nights prior to departure.

Not sure.

During our time at the school I would like to take a weekend and go to: Alberobello and one other place in Southern Italy but not sure I want to "plan" it. It is not a very busy time of year for that area and there might be treasures there waiting to discover!

I am toying with going to Sicily for the week we have after the school. Dh hails from there and we will be rather close. I have yet to be able to figure out how to get there from Brindisi <sp>.

Wondering how it is there the last week in October. I also want to be sure that dh can come during that time as it is something I want to experience with him.

So...that is the update.

Thank you again for all your thoughts and suggestions - it might seem like I did not listen a bit but I really did. :-)

One thing that is missing is the desire to go to Dachau. Depending on how we are feeling/holding up we might do it in a day from Baden Baden. Not sure. It is a long train ride to swing in one day.

&quot;<i>September 26 arrive LHR 2:40 pm Train to Brugge . . . . </i>&quot;

Hope you don't mean a train from LHR - nor a train from London to Brugge. You can take a train from St Pancras station to Brussels. What time do you arrive at LHR?

Meant to say - your trip sounds wonderful - it is just the logistics of your first day I'm concerned about . . . .

Is there any reason to fly to Rome if you are only spending the night there and leaving the next day? I would consider flying to Bari from either Frankfurt Hahn or Stuttgart, both of which are very close to Baden Baden.

I think a day trip to Strasbourg from Baden Baden is a good idea.
The airport that Ryan air flies from is not in Baden Baden but about 15 miles from there at a former Canadian air base on the outskirts of Soelingen.

Janisj - no I did not mean straight from LHR (unfortunately) I will have to get to the station to take the EuroStar through the chunnel. It is going to be a long day but I think (and might be wrong)I would rather suck it up and get where we are going to Brugge, then spend one night in London.

It is still far enough in advance that I can cancel one night in Brugge and spend the night by the station and leave in the am? Thoughts?


I do plan on spending 3 night in London on the way back prior to heading back to LAX. We get in at 2:40. Later in the afternoon. I imagine that I am not going to stop traveling till 8:00 - 9:00 pm if we are lucky.

Hopefully we can rest once we get on the train to Brussels and then change to Brugge. That is why I am doing 3 nights in Brugge. I know we will be very tired.

I will be needing advice on HOW to get to the euro Star station.

kybourbon - I banged my head on the keyboard for days/nights trying to figure it out. I was avoiding Munich at all cost due to October Fest. I have desired for a while to go to Baden Baden... and found out that Ryan Air does fly from that area...

Iam toying with spending the night at the airport (rome) and getting a flight the next morning. But thought it might be nice to have dinner in Rome and breakfast and head out. The train ride is 5.5 - 6 hours. We did spend 5 nights or so in Rome in the summer of 07. (not that one cannot spend more time of course!)

We are flying from Karlsruhe-Baden (FKB)? I am not sure if that is the same one that you are refering to?

the below is a c/p off a trip advisor posting from someone else - does this sound right on how to get from LHR to St. Pancras?
-------


If time is of the essence from there I would head to the Heathrow Express. It is expensive (&pound;15.50) but there are four trains an hour and you get to Paddington in just 15 comfortable minutes. From there you could get a taxi to St Pancras (&pound;10-&pound;12) or a Circle Line tube (&pound;4) to Kings Cross/St Pancras from where you follow the signs to the Eurostar. The slower alternative is the Piccadilly Line tube. It would cost just &pound;4 per person and the tube goes all the way to kings Cross but it would take around 50-55 minutes.

FYI - You are flying into Rome Ciampino, not FCO. It's not an easy trip into Rome. You either have to take the Terravision bus (for budget airline ticket holders) or do a bus/train/metro combination.

http://www.adr.it/content.asp?Subc=2...&amp;idMen=204

www.terravision.eu

kybourbon - well good morning.

Yikes - smacking myself on the head.

Okay... can I take a car service?

It's not that difficult to take Terravision. It's just like any other comfortable coach. Then from Termini, take a taxi.

But a car service would work too.

I have not had all my coffee here and was slightly freaked out that I was 5 hours outside of Rome.

Normally I notice those kinds of things very carefully on tickets.

Not sure how I missed it.

I will wait and see where I end up staying and then price out a car service. Traveling with dd that might be the best thing to do.

September 26 arrive LHR 2:40 pm Train to Brugge (hope I got that right Ira!)

I share Janis' concern with this schedule - why not stay in London one day?

Because when getting a Eurostar ticket London St Pancras to Brussels (with ABS fare that allows you to go onto Bruges on any train free) you will have to reserve a usually non-refundable non-changeable ticket to get a cheap fare - just show up and you could pay literally hundreds of bucks more

and to book a cheap ticket then, since it's not changeable nor refunded probably you have to leave some time for your plane to be late, your bags taking forever coming out, long lines at British immigration, etc. and a fairly lengthy no matter how you do it transfer to St Pancras.

You land at 2:40pm and if all went optimal the best you could do would be to get to St Pancras by 5pm but it could be a few hours later depending on plane on time, etc.

so how do you guarantee that you will not miss this train say if you book one for 6pm (need to enter Eurostar turnstile at least 30 mins prior to train) and much after 18:00 you may not be able to get to Bruges before midnight, etc. - you also lose an hour on the clock when going to Belgium. Can be done but scheduling is a nightmare it seems

miss your cheap Eurostar ticket then have to pay big bucks for walk up fare

Consider flying from LHR to Brussels IMO

MomDD...

For your one night in Rome I can recommend the Hotel Aberdeen on Via Firenze (just off Via Nationale and a block away from Piazza Republica). It's about a 15 minute walk to the termini train station.

I stayed there last Christmas and it was a good basic hotel. Clean, nice size room and breakfast (fruit, cheeses,cereal, pastries, coffe, juices)included.

I contacted them about prices for this December (Christams week again) and they quoted me 150 Euro per night. Not sure what your room budget is. But it may be worth your while to email them and get a price quote, it may be different for October.

There were several other hotels on that street and in the general neighborhood. One was the Hotel Oceania. I didn't stay there, but have a co-worker who did and she said it was similar to the Aberdeen.

There are several restaurants in the area. One I can highly recommend is just around the corner from the Hotel Aberdeen. It's Target Restaurant on Via Torino. It was one of my favorite meals during my week in Rome. The menu had alot of choices (including pizzas, pastas, salads as well as soups and second courses). Not sure what type of eaters you and your daughter are, but would think anyone could find something there they would like.

I did write a trip report that included the websites for the hotel and restaurant. Here is the link to that trip report.

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35099729

PalenQ - I looked into that last night but then have the same issue no? Missed connecting flight - on seperate booking etc etc.

I think the best thing to do is spend the night in London. Glad as usual to have you all.

LowCountryIslander - I had thought of Oceania and they do have a room. I read mixed reviews including BUGS on T.A. - unfortunately that sends me over the edge. If there were brown bugs in my bed I would leave.

I am such a mess, hate to fly, afraid of bugs - It is a wonder I travel. LOL

I will read your trip report. Thank you.

I liked Hotel Julia, between Piazza Barberini and the Trevi Fountain. I would expect the double rooms to be very small, though.

Hotel Parlamento between the Pantheon and the Spanish Steps is recommended a lot.

Hotel Gea di Vulcano is well-recommended, reasonably close to Termini, but in a nice neighborhood (pretty near Hotel Aberdeen, I think).

The car service from Ciampino should be cheaper than from FCO, because CIA is actually closer to Rome.

Fly from Heathrow to Brussels! British Airways and Brussels Airlines have 3 late afternoon/evening flights. There's a train from the Brussels airport to Brugge twice an hour, and it takes 90 minutes.

Brussels Air quotes 19.5 GBP plus taxes for 1 adult plus 1 child on a flight departing at 6:00 pm on 9/26/08. Insanely cheap.

If the link holds, here is the results of my search on Brussels Air:

http://quicktrip.brusselsairlines.co...6-4C6C88192796

British Airways quotes 108 GBP including taxes for 1 adult plus 1 child on a flight departing at 5:45 pm on 9/26/08. BA's definition of child is up to and including 11 years.

I guess the link wouldn't hold, but see for yourself at:

www.brusselsairlines.com

Jean - I think I should book later then 6:00 pm no?

I land, if all goes well, at 2:40 pm. I have to go through customs, if they will not check my bags through, get my bags, recheck... and would need to do that all in 1:20 minutes to be able to check in 2 hours prior to flight...

Rome Shuttle Limousine will be 35&euro; from Ciampino to your hotel in Rome if you don't want to use Terravision.
http://www.romeshuttlelimousine.com/CiampinoE.htm

kybourbon as usual you are the best :-)

Mom, there are later flights than the 6:00 pm I searched. I think the last for both airlines was 8:00 pm or so. What airline is your LAX-Heathrow flight?

I was just looking Jean myself :-)

I am flying Airfrance. It has a strong ontime last time I checked.

LAX to LHR.

I think the 8:00 pm would work...but would that be easier then taking the chunnel? At that point if I was &quot;on time&quot; I might be almost there no?

choices..choices ...

&quot;<i>but would that be easier then taking the Eurostar (I refuse to use &quot;Chunnel&quot; :) )?</i>&quot;

You could sit at the airport, have a nice meal, do some shopping -- OR -- you can schelpp across all of London w/ long walks w/ your bags to/through three train stations, and a cab ride.

I wouldn't want to go from Heathrow to the Eurostar right after flying from LAX (my airport too). It'll be 10:40 pm on your body clock when you arrive.

So much easier (and I assume faster) just to take another flight.

BTW, I went further into the Brussels Airlines booking, and the taxes brought the total fare to about equal the British Airways fare. So, $215 total for you and your daughter. You'll probably arrive at Terminal 2, and the BA flight would be out of Terminal 4 or 5. I'm guessing 30 minutes tops to transfer terminals, but perhaps someone with more recent experience could chime in. I doubt you'd have to check in 2 hours prior to an inter-Europe flight, but perhaps again someone else can advise.

FYI, the last Eurostar train to Brussels on 9/26/08 appears to depart at 7:34 pm and arrive at about 10:30 pm which is about the same time the 8:00 pm BA flight arrives.

Oh Janisj,

You must cringe :-). I think both you and Jean make valid points. I think I will make the flight arrangments.

BMI also has a direct flight - it is slightly less money. I need to go back and make sure it is out of LHR.

I may have access to a few of LHR's airport clubs. That might help pass the time.

there is a 6:25 BMI flight and then an 8:15 one. I wonder if we miss the flight how accomadating they would be to put us on the 8:15 pm?

I have zero experience with BMI.

Yes, check the airport for BMI.

I'd book the later flight. If all goes well, you could check in early and see if there's availability on an earlier flight. But, if you book the early flight and miss it, what would you do if there were no seats available on the later flight?

Dear Mom:

I don't understand why you've picked Baden Baden for 4 days with all the scenic and historic places you could take your daughter in Germany? Why not go from Holland to the Rhine/Mosel area and take flight from Frankfurt Hahn to Brindisi as kybourbon has suggested? (it makes the itinerary a whole lot easier).

I still think you underestimate your exhaustion level when you arrive in London. You will not sleep very well the night before your flight - and you may not sleep on the plane at all. You have 5 weeks for heaven's sake! Going on to Brugges the first day is just a recipe for starting the trip sick. Staying in London one night would be a great way to use your Hilton/Starwood points.

I should expand: what I meant about Baden Baden is I don't think it has much to appeal to an 11 year old - the appeal is for middle aged or older folks, and there's no history. The Rhine/Mosel has castles, scenery and boat trips, which I think are a lot more exciting and interesting for an 11 year old.

lovisa - all excellent points.

I should clarify - the only reason I wanted to go to Brugge on the first night was to get dd in a place for three nights without travel. I am seeing that the best thing is to most likely spend the night in London.

I will have to re-think Baden - Baden.

I am flying out of there on Oct. 4. We have our tickets.

I was so excited to have the first part of our trip &quot;firmed up&quot; and now I see it is full of holes.

I think you are feeling rushed because you've committed to the 3 week language class.

Could you possibly cut it down to two weeks? If language classes are 4 hours/day, I think that's pretty intense for an 11 year old. Perhaps you could make your focus history instead of language.

Also, Italian is offered at a lot of community colleges. You are presumably from the L.A. area. Italian is offered at Glendale College, Valley College, Santa Monica College, Riverside College and Mt. San Antonio College that I know of, and I'm sure there are others. If you and you daughter took a summer school class, you could get some foundation and gauge whether your daughter is ready for an intense class.

lovisa - great suggestion. DD and I talked a great deal about this and have decided to do 2 weeks of the language school as opposed to 3. If we love it we will go back.

I really think you are on the money with this.

We are from Orange County -- she has been doing Rosetta &lt;sp&gt; Stone and we had a tutor coming to the house (but that did not work out - delightful woman but not a great teacher for an eleven year old).

I found a number of courses we can take here though.

So we will do two weeks and then travel after... for 17 days.

I'm glad you're scaling back on the language lessons, I think you'll feel more relaxed.

I note that in Orange County both Fullerton College, www.fullcoll.edu ,and Saddleback College, www.saddleback.edu , are offering Elementary Italian classes this summer. They are 5 unit courses, and the cost is around $20/unit plus miscellaneous fees. I know our local community colleges allow high school students to take classes, don't know if there is an age floor.

I have a comment on just one little detail that's being discussed.

I fly Seattle to London &amp; NO way would I want to have to deal with a long train ride after getting off a 9 hour overnight flight. I think I might have mentioned this in an earlier post of yours somewhere along the planning. Anyways, that sounds just awful to me.

Either connect by plane for Brugge, or spend the night in London before continuing on. You have such a luxurious amount of time for this trip overall, I don't understanding rushing into this awful start that I think you first day will be, if you keep it as planned.

kindly, Suze

Suze,

It is a lack of experience in travel over all I think. I have traveled to Europe, but only once. I have been to Thailand but other then that all my travel has been within a 5-6 hour flight window.

My thought process was to get dd to a place where she would not have to move again for 3 nights in order to help keep the one nighters sparse or never.

I think that perhaps due to the fact that it is a large window I am struggling even more. If I had 14 days or less it is easier for me at times to narrow it down. (not always).

I have decided to spend the night in London.

Thank you for your thoughts. You have a lot more experience with europe travel then I do, and that is why I am posting :-).

Dawn

Hi there Dawn, just saw your thread and I agree with Suze (as usual).

Staying overnight before travelling on is certainly what I would do. A hot shower, a simple dinner, a good nights sleep another morning hot shower, breakfast and clean clothes will make your travel to Brugge so much nicer and more comfortable.

Dawn--I will be the voice of dissent here:D I would take a flight that first evening and be done with traveling for a bit. We did that with our kids and were glad we did. We flew from Seattle to London, then flew on to Edinburgh. Much easier to just have it over with, IMO. And kids as you know are so resilient.