Well, mms, Suze does recommend flying on. It's the switching from the airport to the train and the long train ride that she thinks too much. From Heathrow there's the trip into London and then across town to the departure train station, all the while carrying luggage. Then in Brussels, they'd have to switch to a local train for Bruges.

The more I think about it, the more I agree, though I understand and agree with Mom's original premise. But maybe it's just a bit too much this time.

I'd probably agree w/ mms IF you had a tight schedule and only a short time for your holiday. Get where you are going and get it over with.

But in your situation - you have oodles of time. The luxury of time means you don't have to schlepp/rush/connect/race to make the next flight.

Take your time, enjoy, relax.

I just do not care for one night stops, anywhere. To me, that stopover would make it worse. But everyone travels differently.

mms that is the tough part. I do not like one nighters in general either. The good news is that we are traveling light - that will help. So I thought suck it up, get there and then rest. Ugh.

Based on the fact that dd gets sick hard and fast if she is over tired and with her foot situation... I have to really think this through.

I wanted you all to say "definately stay in london".

Perhaps take the flight to Brussels and spend the night?....

Janisj - I know..I need to relax. I am very anxious about the entire trip. Traveling alone is one thing, traveling with an 11 year old alone is giong to be a different experience. I am looking forward to our now two weeks in one apartment, but the moving and traveling has me a little more anxious.

I should correct myself though - one night stays do not appeal to me in general but I am thinking of doing a few after our stay in Lecce on our way up to Venice - Assisi for instance.

Dawn--I can see where you would be hesitant with tess. But remember, kids sleep anywhere and they don't stress about logistics like we do. I personally would fly to Brussels at least. We always travel with just one carry on each, so like you say going light helps. But I hate hate hate to repack for one night. Nope, won't do it unless there is no other option, lol!

MomDD: If you do stay in London. You can have a nice dinner. a relaxing night. Walk around a little to give your daughter a taste. Next day after a good sleep, take a mid-morning Eurostar from St Pancras and relax all the way. Have lunch on the train. It will be daylight so you can see the scenery instead of darkness most of the way. The scenery isn't spectacular - but for that long a ride I'd personally be able to see things. Don't think of it as a one night stop over w/ packing/unpacking. You just need one change of clothes that can fit in your carry on. It shouldn't be much of a hassle at all.

I emailed the B&B in Brugge and let her know that we would not be there that night.

I am going to spend the night in London. If it was just me - I would press on - I think the wise thing to do is to get her there, do my best to keep her up to a decent hour and take janisj's advice, have dinner, walk around etc. I should be able to get a decent hotel with points - hilton or starwood. Any suggestions on where to stay? If I cannot use points, I am on a tighter budget then normal due to the length of the trip.

I am trying to stay less then 150.00 USD a night for the time we are not in the apartment in Orantro <sp> (Lecce).

I already have a train pass, that is meaningless, I think for the UK and Eurostar from London to Brussels.

$150 won't get you much in London (that is only £75) - but w/ points there are lots of good choices.

Which one do you have the most points w/ . . . . .

There are at least 10 Hiltons in central London and maybe 7 or 8 Starwoods.

That is why I was avoiding London on the way in - I want to stay for 3 nights on the way out (In November) price.

I have about 100,000 hilton points and about the same Starwood.

I "can" spend more but would prefer not to. Maybe I should priceline right before we go? I have read good things on this board about priceline London no?

I have a couple of expensive areas on the agenda - Venice, Rome, London.

Since I don't use points - I mostly rent apartments in London or sometimes use priceline - I don't know how many points are required for London properties. But there are several really nice Hiltons and some terrific Starwood hotels. That is the way I'd go if your points will cover it.

A lot (of points) But it is one area where it is worth it imo based on the weak dollar.

I was hoping to save my hilton points for Venice - a friend stayed at the Hilton in Venice and said it was amazing. I was suprised.

I am spending less in certain areas so I can go over a little if that makes sense.

I need to fill:
October 24 - thinking Verona
Oct 25
Oct 26
Oct 27
Oct 28
Oct 29
Oct 30
Oct 31
November 1
November 2
November 3
November 4 LAX

Ira had a great suggestion for Fussen (sp) Innsbruck, Salzburg I believe - I need to go back and look.

People keep urging me to go to Praque but I have heard from others it is "stressful"??

It is a good problem to have but as you can tell - I am stressed over it.

Want to stick as much as possible to trains - but do not see how to get back to London without flying.

I would consider whether the points use is a good dollar value. For example, if you bid for a 4* hotel in Bloomsbury-Marble Arch for one night on Priceline, which would likely put you quite near St. Pancras, you may be able to succeed at less than $125 total. I'd value Starwood points at least at 2 cents per point, although I don't know about Hilton. So if, for example, it took 10,000 Starwood points to get a hotel room in London, I don't think it would be a good value.

With Venice, the Hilton Molino Stucky is coming up on Priceline for 5* bids. Of course this hotel couldn't be guaranteed, but again I would look at the points "cost" versus the dollar cost when making a hotel decision. Points are just one restricted form of currency - they don't really give you "free" rooms. Of course, if you have more points than you could ever possibly use, then the economic decision is different.

From traveling with my kids, I definitely think 5-night stays or so are a good minimum, other than for 1-night "in-transit" stays. Yes, in theory it doesn't seem like it should be necessary, but life is easier with 5-night stays.

willtravel - good information/insight - thank you.

I have used Priceline in the states but never in Europe.

Is it like here in that I have a better chance of a good price/room if I wait it out?

What area should I bid in for London? Noting that I am arriving at 2:40 into LHR and will be leaving mid morning for Brugge the next day?

I hear you about the five night stays - we went to Europe last year and moved a bit - Paris, Montruex, Florence and Rome. I will say after 4 nights though we were all ready to move on.

This will be interesting to say the least.

Personally, I'd say Bloomsbury-Marble Arch for Priceline or Hotwire, but others may disagree.

There is one important advantage to booking rooms with points in your case, which is that I think they are almost completely cancellable. Given the normal things that can happen with kids, that may be significant. So perhaps what I'd suggest is book a room with points, and then reconsider once you are much closer to the actual date.

Have you totally given up on flying onto Brussels after arriving in Heathrow? I think that's the best solution. Especially since, according to Jean, there's a train from the Brussels airport directly to Bruges.

Or you could spend a night in an inexpensive B&B near the airport (Windsor?) and fly out the next day.

Your daughter will get plenty of other train experiences during your 5 weeks.

willtravel - considering I have had a million trips cancel (okay a tiny exaggeration) that is a good idea.

It is one reason I am shying away from apartment outside of the two weeks in Southern Italy - due to the fear that "something" will happen.

No, I have not completely given up on flying to Brussels. I have a little time to sort through it all... I am leaning definately towards just staying the night in London.

I'm not understanding the London portion of your trip. Why fly there at all if it's not where you want to go?

kybourbon - miles.

Which airline FF program? If American, I think Brussels Air is one of their partners, and I think they have direct flights from LAX to Brussels.

Brussels Air from LAX to Brussels is no longer a non-stop flight. Change planes at either Chicago or JFK.

MomDD-
I have been to Baden Baden and Strasbourg a few years. It was my first European trip and I believe I was 15 or 16 at the time. We did Strasbourg, Colmar, Baden Baden and Heidelberg before flying out of Frankfurt. I would suggest looking into Colmar and Heidelberg. They make very nice day trips and have plenty of things to be seen.

I'm sure you'll have a great time!

nessa - I will just that :-)

Jean - I have my tickets - Delta ff on Airfrance. It was the only place the agent could find non-stop for me around those dates.

I had a nightmare trip getting across the pond last June. I swore to myself that I would not stop in the good ole USA again on my way to Europe unless I had to 100%. (we went from LAX to DFW to Santigo Chile to Paris France).

I want to stay in London on the way home. I have never been and of course neither has dd.

"I swore to myself I would not stop in the good ole USA." Well, good luck at Heathrow!

LOL - one evil for another eh? Crapola

Okay - some hotel updates - wanted to see if anyone had any feedback.
Not in order:


In Venice we are staying here:
http://tinyurl.com/5n54gj

190,00 E a night including tax & Breakfast more then I wanted to spend but I like the looks of it.

Salzburg (outside of)
http://www.gasthofschorn.at/

80 E a night including tax and breakfast (that is more like what I wanted to spend)

Verona - Hotel Colomba d'Oro
161,00 including buffet breakfast

München - Hotel Uhland

90,50 includes breakfast, service and tax, per room, net hotel

Assisi -
http://www.pallottaassisi.it/ EURO

70,00 E

Siena - Hotel Chiusarelli
EUR 105.00 per room per night with buffet breakfast included

I still need to fill in a few spaces...

I think your choice in Salzburg is just too far from the center without a car. According to viamichelin, it is 10 kilometers from Salzburg. You may be able to take a bus, but how often does it run, and how often do you want to take it?

It's nice to have a hotel where you can go back in the middle of the day to rest between sightseeing excursions.

I was worried about that. They say they have a bus that runs right in front and so did the trip advisor. Every 10 mintues I believe for most of the day and then every 1/2 hour.

I just loved the price!

btw, I should say "I AM worried about that - not I "was" worried".

I am hoping since one day we want to do a Sound of Music Tour, the other day I wan to go to the Salt Mines and I was thinking of seeing if there is a locker in the train station - checking our bags on the 3rd day and going into Salzburg on that day before we head to Munich.

I guess I would question the "every 10 minutes" bus since it's so far out. Instead, I would spend more in Salzburg to stay closer to the center, and economize a little more in Venice and Verona.

This religious house in Venice, Artigianelli, gets very good reviews on Tripadvisor and has a 1 a.m. curfew which I don't suppose would bother you:

http://www.donorione-venezia.it/

I've booked my son into a double at Hotel Bologna in Verona at the end of June for Euro 125. I would imagine it could be a little less in the fall:
http://www.hotelbologna.vr.it/eng/hotel.html

Thanks for the tip on the place in Venice - I will check it out. No, LOL the curfew is fine - I would be fine with it at 11:00 pm. :-)

I will question more on the Salzburg. I believe that place got good reviews. Not sure where from at the moment. As with something, I have read SO much from so many sources it is all beginning to blur.

Okay - here is the information off the Salzburg booking:

Our family guided 'Inn' Gasthof Schorn is 8 km in the south of the center of Salzburg. There is puplic bus connection to go direct in the center of the city (bus nr. 25 - running all 20 minutes).

For Salzburg, how about the Hotel Weisse Taube in the Altstadt? It gets great reviews, and I believe you would be there in low season:

http://www.weissetaube.at/

Or you could use some of your Starwood points at the Goldener Hirsch or Sheraton in Salzburg.

Thanks so much for all your help. I emailed them and will see what they come back with.

I am holding out on the starwood points for the 3 nights in London at the end of the trip. I have about 80,000 hilton as well.

Hi Dawn, I like the hotel in Verona and the location is wonderful.

Regarding Salzburg:

That gasthof is located in St. Leonhard, a couple of kilometers further south of Grödig, an area where we have stayed. I have seen that hotel. We had a car, and it took us ~15 minutes from Grödig to get into Salzburg...with bus, it will take longer because of the stops.I have heard it takes from 25-45 minutes especially during business hours.

If you want to stay in/walking distance to the center, there are many resonably-priced hotels & B&Bs around...don't discount them. We loved Grödig but this Christmas we are staying in town at the Hotel Auersperg, mainly because we want to partake in many activities around the city.

What saltmine do you plan on visiting? Hallein is the nearest from Salzburg, though there's also one in Halstatt and Berchtesgaden.

On another note...I may just see you in Salzburg since I'll be in that area last week of October!!

All great information Joy.

I do not know what Saltmines yet. One thing is dd's foot situaiton (she had surgery March 26) I am hoping she is able to do the salt mine but have to sort of play it by ear.

I will definately check out the properties you have suggested. I watched Rick Steves with her last night on Salzburg and it looked so crowded in the old town!

If you see a Mom looking sort of confused and dazed dragging around a perky 11 year old ...that is me
:-)

Oh and Love -thank you! I know you stayed there - I got the recommendation from you off this board when you were recommending to Patrick in a post from 2006!

Oh Joy - I love the looks of Hotel Auersperg - please tell me why you selected it?

You have great experience that I am lacking in Europe travel!

Dear Mom: I think you are trying to pack in too many destinations for the time you have. You will spend a lot of time in transit.

Could you post the "shape" of your itinerary?

As near as I can figure it goes something like this:

Sept. 26 London
27 -28 Brugge
29 - 30 Haarlem
Oct 1 2 3 Baden Baden or somewhere in Germany
Oct 4 Rome
Oct 5 18 Lecce language school
Oct 19 Rome
Oct 20 21 22 23 - Assisi, Siena Venice
Oct 24 Verona
25 -27 Salzburg
28 - 31 Munich
Nov 1- 3 London

I would cut down on your Italian destinations after Lecce, think about spending more time in Belgium and the Netherlands in the beginning, eliminating that initial Germany portion, and flying directly from Amsterdam to an Italy destination.

I suggest you look up transit times from one place to another on Bahn.de. For example, on an ES (fastest) train it will take a little over 6 hours travel time from Lecce to Rome. That pretty well wipes out the day.

I know you want to do it all, but right now it's just too much - a lot of transit time.

As near as I can figure it goes something like this:

Sept. 26 London
27 -28 Brugge
29 - 30 Haarlem
Oct 1 2 3 Baden Baden or somewhere in Germany
Oct 4 Rome
Oct 5 18 Lecce language school
Oct 19 Rome
Oct 20 21 22 23 - Assisi, Siena Venice
Oct 24 Verona
25 -27 Salzburg
28 - 31 Munich
Nov 1- 3 London

I would cut down on your Italian destinations after Lecce, think about spending more time in Belgium and the Netherlands in the beginning, eliminating that initial Germany portion, and flying directly from Amsterdam to an Italy destination.

I suggest you look up transit times from one place to another on Bahn.de. For example, on an ES (fastest) train it will take a little over 6 hours travel time from Lecce to Rome. That pretty well wipes out the day.

I know you want to do it all, but right now it's just too much - a lot of transit time.

----
On the 18 - I have decided I think to train up to the Marches area and over to Assisi.

18 (Marches area)
19 Assisi
20 Sienna
21 Sienna
22 Venice
23 Venice
24 Verona
25 Salzburg
26 Salzburg
27 Salzburg
28 Munich
29 Munich
30 Munich
31 Munich
1 London
2 London
3 London
4 London - leave for LAX 5:00 pm

I know that it is a lot - I have certain dates I have to be in Lecce due to the school (the entire reason for the trip)

The largest amount of moving/transist in in the 7 days after the school in Italy. I am hoping it is not overwhelming as there are a number of one night stays. (three)