Troyes, andouillette capital of France.

Robjame: Why do you hate Ira so? I can think of no other motive than hatred to inflict andouillettes on someone.

Have you no mercy?

(I know we're really getting off the original subject, but it has been fully addressed, in my opinion.)

Audere, what do you have against andouillette? Properly prepared, it is a true delight, as is any form of tripe, or I would not have spent last weekend boiling a load of tripe for 5 hours before preparing it <i>&agrave; la mode lorraine</i>, sliced into thin strips and fried in a mixture of chopped parsley, garlic and butter. Magnificently crispy and simultaneously slimy.

Kerouac: You answered your own question. &quot;Slimy&quot; is not a word I want associated with my nosh. And them sausage things stink like a dead dog that's been three days in the sun.

A number of posters have alluded to hate groups in the US - particularly their freedom to express their views (however obnoxious or ridiculous).

Ironically, it has long been my impression that most people of Jewish descent or of dark complexion would prefer to live in the US where they are not threatened by the events of relatively recent history or partitioned into ghettos from which they are unlikely to escape.

How many minorities in France experience upward social mobility? How many are in Turkish CEO's of Turkish descent are there in Germany?

Would the minorities of Europe be more inclined to emigrate to the US?

An european 'minority' memeber did answer : me : a black (Martiniquan) french women, my answer is : my chances in France were certainly as good (or better) than what they would have been in the USA.
I'm part of the middle/upper class and felt more discriminated when i was in the USA than i am home.

Symetric question : how many immigrants' kids among US presidents ?

Ironically, it has long been my impression that most people of Jewish descent or of dark complexion would prefer to live in the US where they are not threatened by the events of relatively recent history or partitioned into ghettos from which they are unlikely to escape.

How many minorities in France experience upward social mobility?

In view of the above, I don't know if you consider Jewish people as a &quot;minority&quot; in France but several French Prime Ministers were Jewish : L&eacute;on Blum, Pierre Mendes France, Laurent Fabius.
A black, Gaston Monerville, was President of the Senate for years.
Two French women of North African origin belong to the present Government as well as one of Senegalese origin.

Nicolas Sarkozy is the son of a Hungarian immigrant father and a mother of French and Greek Sephardic Jewish descent, Andr&eacute;e Mallah

&gt;How many minorities in France experience upward social mobility?

I don't know.
What I know is that my family immigrated into Germany 15 years ago with not much more than a few suitcases, and with only basic language knowledge. I had access to the best education Germany had to offer, later on access to one of the ebst institutions of scientific learning on the continent, and I didn't have to fight any &quot;rationing&quot; or &quot;restrictions&quot;.
I am not unhappy with the job I have, and while I don't aim to become CEO or something close, I think that with enough hard work I have a chance at a decent career within the company.
Btw. our office floor has about 25-30% of immigrants. All of them in a position similar to mine.
So what were you saying again about upward mobility?

&gt;How many are in Turkish CEO's of Turkish descent are there in Germany?

How many members of minorities that satrted arriving into USA in the 1950s/1960s are CEO's now?

&gt;Would the minorities of Europe be more inclined to emigrate to the US?

I don't know. If I were to qualify as &quot;minority&quot;, I wouldn't.

&quot;how many immigrants' kids among US presidents ?&quot;

All of them... only the Native Americans were here first, and none of them have become president. ;-) \

Re: racism and anti-semitism, no one will win that argument. We unfortunately all have them; they just show up in different ways.

In London, I've seen large anti-semitic rallies in the streets. You'd never see that in America, but I've still met plenty of anti-semites who mistake my anglo looks for a sympathetic audience. Neither is better than the other... just different ways of mistreating our neighbors.

Maybe the old saying about 'the grass is greener on the other side of the fence' applies here. All of the postings were interesting and I don't know if there really is one good answer to this question. I live in CA and wouldn't even consider moving to the Midwest or the South. California is a great place to live, but with drawbacks, of course, one being that everybody wants to live here--too crowded. But we are pretty 'hang loose' and not as conservative or restricted as some other states. From my side of the fence, and I'd really love to live in Europe, I see the European dedication to aesthetics and the arts as a big draw, as well as the preservation of the ancient cultures and architecture. And yes, we can get great organic produce here. Cheers, BMK

My point was more about Jews in Germany and minorities of African descent in France. Although I seem to recall, within the past few years, a prominent Israeli politician advising French Jews to leave France for their safety. I also recall the riots in Parisian suburban ghettos last summer. France may experience more racial harmony than CNN suggests, but, from a distance, it appears to have a large population of disaffected minorities.

As best as I can determine the French National Assembly has fewer than a dozen (of 577) racial minorities. I don't know the numbers for the US House, but I can think of at least a dozen off the top of my head.

Altamiro - Immigrant is not equivalent to racial minority.

&gt;My point was more about Jews in Germany

You mean those Jews in Germany that immigrate in droves? (into Germany, that is)? Or those thousands of Israelis that apply for German citizenship at German embassy in Jerusalem?
So what's up with me?

&gt;Altamiro - Immigrant is not equivalent to racial minority.

So what is your definition of a racial minority?
Is a Turkish immigrant a member of a racial minority? A Bulgarian? A Pole?

Or do you think only immigrants from Africa and East Asia are &quot;racial minority&quot;?

I am speaking of immigrants because there were no significant minortiy populations in Germany before WW2 (if you don't count Danes, Poles and Sorbs).

&lt;I also recall the riots in Parisian suburban ghettos last summer.&gt;

I would say that you are mis-recalling, because not only are there no ghettos in the suburbs, there were no riots, simply vandalism.

I'm not sure if I would make Sarkozy a poster boy for first generation immigrants, since he sued his despised father, but there are indeed 3 high government posts occupied by immigrants and 1st generation immigrants:
Rachida Dati, Minister of Justice (daughter of a Moroccan and an Algerian)
Fadela Amira, Secretary for Urban Affairs (daughter of Algerian immigrants)
Rama Yade, Secretary for Human Rights (Senegalese immigrant)

As for prominent Israeli politicians trying to recruit new immigrants, I think that is par for the course in a country that needs more support. I do not think they are necessarily qualified to tell Jews where to live.

&gt;Some day I would love to carry on this discussion with you over a bottle of wine and a plate of Andouillette, in a cafe in France.

Sounds good to me, Rob.

((I))

&quot;I seem to recall, within the past few years, a prominent Israeli politician advising French Jews to leave France for their safety&quot;

He advised them to go to Israel. Probably the most unsafe place in the world a Frenchman could seriously consider moving to.

Which merely goes to show that Israeli politicians really ought to mind their own business, and keep their nonsensical fantasies about life in France to themselves.

The truth, of course, is that the thousands of Jews who've moved back to France since WW2 have had a far safer life there, for themselves, their children and their grandchildren, than those foolish enough to move to Israel.

&gt;Probably the most unsafe place in the world a Frenchman could seriously consider moving to.

I'm quite sure you can find less safe places. Iraq or Kongo for example. But among the &quot;western&quot; coutries, Israel is probably the least safe place to move to - who wants to live in a war zone?