sfarah

After much thought (and travel), I have decided I want to buy a property in Europe (the South of Italy, Spain or France). I'm pretty flexible on location and wonder where I would get the best value for my dollar. I'm not looking for seaside villas or castles! My price range would be in the $300,000's. I would occupy it only a few months out of the year and hoped I could rent it out when empty. If anyone has purchased a property or has any leads on reputable agents, I would love to hear. Caveats would be greatly welcomed too!

m_kingdom2

Find an estate agent and get on their books. For that small amount of money, anywhere that isn't in the sticks in the South of France will not be accessible. Spain lacks quality property - too much being built all the time. Italy, would be very hard to find anything you'd like. Be more specific on country, let alone location.

Make your mind up, do you want Spain, France or Italy, do you want a city flat, a country house, what? You don't explain yourself very well, if you were moving to London, it's not good just saying "I want to buy somewhere in London" be specific, come back then and ask for help dear.

PBProvence

I think you should try to narrow down your choice before you seriously start looking. Will you want to be near an airport ? a train station ? Large city or small village ?
Do you prefer being near the sea ? Overlooking the sea is prohibitive) or prefer the hills ?
Do you want something old that needs renovation (do you speak the language ?)or something new ? country house or village house ?
Prices vary wildly in each country, depending on your requirements.

You can start by doing a google search for real estate agents in areas that you're interested in.

PB

Singletail

I think the "kingdom" response above should do more than anything else to CONVINCE YOU that the person to talk to about this is a real estate agent(cy).

The effects of mental illness are sad and not conducive to accurate information. Good luck with your search.

ira

Hi sf,

Keep giving this more thought.

The rules for foreigners buying property are complex and subject to creative interpretation.

After you have decided where you want to buy, get an honest lawyer.

$300,000 is not a lot of money. We looked into real estate on our trip to Paris a few weeks ago, a 2 room apartment start at about 200,000E.

StCirq

sfarah:

We purchased a house in the SW of France 11 years ago, after a full decade of exploration and chewing over the idea. It does seeem a bit premature to be asking this when you haven't even settled on a country, never mind a region.
Do you speak Italian, French, or Spanish - well enough to call and deal with a plumber? That would certainly figure into the choice, I should think, unless you are going to have someone take care of all the practical aspects of home ownership in another country.
Do you have any idea of specific areas you're interested in? With nothing to go on but the amount of money you'd have to spend, it's very difficult to give you ideas that would suit your particular interests.
That said, there are quite a few areas in "the south of France" where you could buy a nice little property with the amount you have to spend - Languedoc-Roussillon, the Lot, Quercy, the Dordogne, the Midi-Pyrénnées....I can't help you with Italy but I'm sure $300,000 would go a ways in Calabria. And I know nothing about Spanish real estate.
Good agents are anywhere. Until you know where you want to buy a property, I wouldn't bother doing any research on that. For France you might start by going to the De Particulier à Particulier website - huge overview of available properties and prices. Buy the UK-based "France" magazine - it's geared toward people interested in buying property in France and has lots of property and agent ads. You can get it at Borders and B&N. For Italy, check out the www.slowtrav.com website - a good number of property owners there.
And if you think it would be useful, I'd be happy to e-mail you an article I wrote (10 years ago) that was published in International Living Magazine (another good resource). My e-mail is [email protected]

StCirq

Actually, ira, at least in France, the laws concerning buying property as a foreigner aren't at all complex - you have money, they have a house, you swap.

It's the rules regarding living in the house, as well as the inheritance laws, that are complex.

Nonetheless, getting a lawyer's advice is not a bad idea, although your notaire's fees are paid for just that purpose - of course, if you don't speak French, and your notaire doesn't speak your language, getting a lawyer who does is probably essential.

sfarah

Thank you all for the sound advice. Sorry about the very vague parameters, I know I need to narrow my focus but I'm so excited by the prospect of owning in one of these countries! I would like to buy a one to two bedroom apartment walking distance to the beach. I am a fluent speaker of Spanish /French and can get by in Italian. I also lived in Paris for two years. I recently vistited and loved Maratea in Basciliata, Italy and have a friend who just bought a reasonable apartment in Montepellier, France. Both places seem to be relatively affordable. I'm going to start with these two areas and see what I find. It's going to be a quite an undertaking because I realize that it not as easy as it seems in "A Year in Provence" and "Under the Tuscan Sun". You could really be taken if not careful in your dealings with sellers, realtors, lawyers etc.

PS-StCirq I would love to read your article and will e-mail you.

Grasshopper

Before you buy a house in Spain, read "Driving Over Oranges". For Italy, "Extra Virgin" and "Under the Tuscan Sun".

Good luck!

Ryan

If you have an accountant, I'd also suggest you check on the tax implications, both at here and abroad, of having rental income. Depending on circumstances and the amounts involved, simply bringing the money back to the US, without triggering a tax event, may take some professional help.

If you have trouble finding something in your price range, you might want to look at the Algarve region of Portugal. There are several very nice beach areas and you might find something closer to your budget.

ira

Hi Stcirq,

>Actually, ira, at least in France, the laws concerning buying property as a foreigner aren't at all complex - you have money, they have a house, you swap.<

Same thing in the US,but what happens when you have purchased in a flood plain and can't get flood insurance, or the wiring, plumbing, gas aren't up to code, or the foundation is crumbling and the roof leaks, and the house is built on a utility company easement, or they start building a road through the garden, etc?

sheila

Sfarah, I bought, with a bunch of friends, a house in SW France last year, in the Midi-Pyrenees.


We found a very good estate agent, I could recommend, and our noataire was also good. We found an English speaking lawyer in paris we used for fall back advice and we have an accountant in Marseilles

If you would like to know more about our neck of the French woods, or any of those contacts, please email me.

there are also a couple of very good French fora, kind of like this one; one hosted by Total France and the other by Living France and you may want to check them out

Ryan

I realized one last very important issue as to why an accountant or tax advisor is critical before you make the purchase, if you inadvertantly forget to notify the IRS that you have let's say a non-US bank accountant with more than $10,000 dollars, you could be in jeopardy of violating Anti-Money Laundering laws.

One other point, by purchasing a vacation home in Europe, you lose the tax benefit of doing the same thing here. The IRS allows you to deduct mortgage interest on a second home if for most of the year it is a rental property. If you decide to purchase somewhere in the US versus Europe, that will have a significant impact of your taxes.

sknight_co

Sfarah, Don't get too discouraged! You just need to realize that $300k will not buy you the same thing there as it would here, but that's the point, isn't it? Everything is much smaller in Europe, so you will not have a large villa. Unless you have a large family, not a big deal.
We just are buying a tiny studio flat, 25 m sq, in Nice, France, a block and a half from the beach, off Rue Gambetta. We paid just over $100k US (Nice is not cheap). It is larger than a hotel, larger than my old college dorm room (in which I managed nicely for 4 yrs) and it will be mine. For a vacation home, one could certainly do worse. My thought is, I will buy smaller, less expensive places, and keep collecting them around Europe. I would rather own a small flat in France AND Italy, than worry about the upkeep in one large place.

Michael

Stick to an apartment, making sure that the roof is not your responsibility. That will limit the repair headaches you are bound to have.

mpprh

Hi

USD 300K will still buy something interesting in Languedoc.

Think of a detached villa with pool, about 20m from the Med.

Even given the poor value of the sad old dollar !

Some adds here : http://www.pap.fr/uk/default.asp


Peter
The Languedoc Page
http://tlp.netfirms.com

capo

Just saw this article on MSN today. Very interesting that new construction is prohibited outside major Italian cities.

"He's Over the Tuscan Sun: Forget the books and the movies. Greg Evans has a new take on the Italian villa-renovation fantasy: Do it from afar."

http://www.lexus.msn.com/id/2074206/sid/2100860

Because new construction is prohibited outside major Italian cities, villa restoration is all but inevitable. The law says that existing buildings?even a pile of rubble can qualify?must be restored to their original condition, so contractors pore through files and aerial photographs from World War I and World War II to determine where the structures were and what they looked like. Evans partners with a realtor and contractor in Tuscany to ensure that the process runs smoothly for his American home buyers, who should prepare to spend between $125 and $150 per square foot for restoration. So a typical three-bedroom house, purchased for $200,000, could require a total investment of upwards of $450,000. An average restoration takes 12 to 15 months.

Georgine

I have friends with dual citizenship ---USA/Italy.

They purchased a property in the Cilento region of southern Italy three years ago.

As the previous poster mentioned, the time and cost to do a restoration is almost "bizarre" by our standards.

Our friend's brother is the mayor of the town where he purchased the house, and it still took him fourteen months for his "permits" to begin the gutting and restoration.

After three years, he finally has full use of the home.

SiobhanP

You will of course get something for €300,000 just not a detached mansion! Start with an apt or a fixer upper and sell on to get a bigger place in a few years. I plan to do the same in a few years time and I know someone who did it in Brittany. They bought an old small farm house and refurbished it into two apts. Ground floor was wheelchair access for her friend eho stayed and upstairs she could always stay in as her private apt while letting out the lower floor apt.

Italy is quite expensive I would go for south France/Spain. All property goes ipeventually! Try an apt for starters if ypou want a bit more comfort as a house/cottage may be more work that is seen at first

sfarah

Thank you all for the informative advice. Since I posted a few months ago I have decided an apartment reasonable walking distance to the beach would be best. I'm not looking for anything elaborate just a one bedroom would be fine to start. I visited the Cilento area of Italy in May and fell in love with it. I stayed at the Santavenere in Maratea which was lovely. I thought about buying there but I'm a bit scared of Italian bureaucracy, etc. I thought it would be best to concentrate on the south of France. I have lived in France and feel most at home there. I am concentrating on the French Riviera, however a friend recently purchased a place in Perpignan near the sea and told me the prices there are still very attractive. I plan to visit the area this fall to see if it is perhaps a better value than the Riviera. If anyone has information on this area I would appreciate hearing it. I know the Spanish call this area the "Costa Brava" but I don't know how the French refer to it.