I've been hearing a lot about the decline of British railways. Sometimes this is noted in political stories. I've never really used the British rail system (unless the Eurostar and the Gatwick Express count??). I've really enjoyed the trains in Germany, France, Belgium, the Netherlands. What, if anything, is wrong with British trains/railways? What are some comparisons or examples? Thx.

We took the GNER from London to Edinburgh a month ago and return, standard class. <BR>It compares well with the train service we took 6 months ago in Australia and New Zealand. It departed on time, and arrived on time. The seats were comfortable. The vendored snacks were about what one would expect. A drunk was thrown off at Darlington by a no-nonsense conductor. <BR>We also took the Eurostar from London to Paris and enjoyed it as well. I'd say it compares favorably. As a matter of fact, while on the Eurostar standard class, the nearby toilet odor filled the air and a complaint upgraded us to first class. <BR>We have nothing but fond memories of the British rail system. I don't know if you regard the Tube as part of the rail system but we rode it all over London and enjoyed it too. <BR>John

To the troll: <BR>Better than anything we could even dream about here in the USA.

John: Thx for your info re: the Edinburgh trip. I have ridden the Eurostar, Gatwick Express, and the Tube, and found them to be fine. However, I questioned whether they are good examples of the more general railway system. My question arises quite literally from political stories I have heard regarding the Labor Party, and complaints thereabouts. I do not profess to be a political expert, but one of the concerns, complaints, etc., that I heard about the party (or maybe the government in general) was deterioration of the rail system (and other public programs). <BR>To the Gerry. I may be anonymous, but I am not a troll. If you have a more substantive response, please share.

I can offer this. Last March I traveled daily for 8 days in England and Scotland. The train from Carlisle to Glasgow was delayed for about 1 1/2 hour but other than that it great. Clean coaches and stations. Scotrail was on time at each point. Took the train from Durham to London and due to a snow storm we were again delayed but it wasn't due to anything wrong with the train system. I have taken trains in the UK on many past trips and found the service to be about the same as it has always been.

I just returned from a trip to England and used the train 4 times, and twice there were problems. One was a trip from Harrogate (N. Yorkshire) to Stratford upon Avon, with connections in York and Birmingham (I did buy an advance ticket). The train from Harrogate to York was cancelled, with no alternatives offered except having to wait for a much later train (not even a coach/bus was available). Luckily, my relatives took the time to drive me to York so I wouldn't miss all of my connections and arrive too late in Stratford. <BR> <BR>The second time I had a problem was on what was supposed to be a short, 50-minute journey from London to Alton. When I got to the London station, the monitors indicated that this train was ending 2 towns before Alton and from there we would take a coach. Well, the train actually ended its run just halfway to Alton and we were told to "de-train" and wait for the next train, in about 30 minutes, to take us to the town where we would catch the coach! And the same problems occurred on the journey back to London. So instead of planning to return to London by 2:00pm, I didn't get back until nearly 6:00pm. And by listening to the locals during this trip, they all say the problems started when the British train system became privatized...unlike the national rail systems in France, Germany, Italy, etc, which I did have the pleasure of using back in 1998 with no problems at all! <BR> <BR>By all means, use the British Rail system, but just be prepared to be very patient and flexible...

PS: Forgot to mention that I did ask the reason for the delays and cancellation, and each time it was either the lack of a crew to run the train, or a derailment or some other type of rail repair. Weather was never a factor.

Whatever problems they have, at least they stillhave a railroad system that works most of the time, Tried Amtrak lately?

How one views the British rail system depends on your point of reference and how you use the system. Compared to Switzerland and Netherlands, it is awful. According to many Brits, it was better in some mythical good old days. Compared to the Canadian and American systems, it is awesome. <BR> <BR>People who use the system on a daily basis, to get to work, to meet appointments, etc have a much more jaundiced view than we tourists who use occasionally and should be in a more relaxed, forgiving mood. <BR> <BR>An example from my personal experience was leaving a narrowboat hotel cruise in Milton Keynes, going to MK Central at about 11 am, buying a ticket to London, going to the platform to discover about 300 peple milling around. After a couple of minutes there was an announcement that the delayed 9:15 am train was arriving and these 300 people packed themselves into the train like it was Japan. I waited, and about 5 minutes later they announced the arrival of the delayed 9:30 train, which was practically empty and which arrived at London Euston at noon, where I booked a hotel from Thomas Cooks and was in my room, unpacked in South Ken by 1 pm. So there were hundreds of Brits whose Friday was ruined by the train service and one tourist that had no complaints whatsoever.

Ron: The good old days of British Rail were fabulous. Before I moved to the States 20 or so years ago, one of the most pleasant things to do was go to London, from Edinburgh, on the train. I have wonderful memories of such a trip with a good friend. We left Edinburgh about 10am and had lunch on the train. This was the really wonderful part. The tables had linen cloths, the silverware was probably actually silver, the wine glasses were probably crystal. The food was very good and the wine list was also very good! Strangely, I don't remember much about the journey after lunch! I guess it's changed a bit.

The problem is that the Tories sold our nationalised trains then sold them back to us as "cheap" shares.(ie theft) <BR>They then gave the money away to their pals. <BR> The rail service now runs very late and has serious safety concerns.The share price is plummeting daily, as the city realises that the Gov is not going to bail them out after the election. <BR> (They are asking for another 3 billion pounds for a management which has failed on all fronts except awarding themselves huge payouts) <BR> The public is now screaming for renationalisation, problem is that the rail companies have huge debts & the gov seems reluctant to leave the shareholders to carry the can.With the election over this may change. <BR> The only people blaming the current gov are the slow learners, who don't understand that when you sell a thing you no longer own it or run it.Many of these idiots bought rail shares and are now looking for someone to blame for their losses. <BR> Look out for massive reorganisation.In my view the gov should reposess its stolen property without compensation.

I just have to say that, as a tourist, I am willing to put up with quite a bit in terms of delays and crowding in exchange for the West Highland Line and the Conwy Valley Line. <BR> <BR>Also, one of the single best travel memories I have is of approaching Waverly Station for the first time (from the east), and seeing Edinburgh Castle suddenly looming above the train.

Please note that two strikes have been scheduled today. More info is available on the message board at http://www.atuk.co.uk/forum <BR> <BR>Paul <BR>

Hello, arrived home this am. 6/12/01 fromLondon,flight cancellation in Atlanta caused 6hr delay. Never had this great a problem while in UK. Had a supersaver open return from Haywards Heath to Kirkcaldy Scotland,week later train to Edin burgh, two days later train to York, 2days later train to London, week later train to Horley, nr Gatwick , 2days later train to Gatwick, all this on the same ticket cost 67gbp, absolutely phenomenal. We also had a SE rail pass, used the tube extensively while in London. Overall the service is good. In 24 days we only had one train cancel, Tonbridge, due to Signal problems. If the tube has a problem there are many alternative lines to simply change to. Thanks to Ron and Ben and Mel who gave some wonderful input prior to our trip. Joyce

Tip - just avoid travelling by train around London, especially between 7 & 10 am and 4 & 7 pm. That's when most of the cancellations occur.

Just returned from 2 weeks in UK. Took a round trip train to Warwick, another from London to York, one from York to Edinburgh, and lastly a train from Edinburgh to London. All ran on time. Maybe we were just lucky!

After a 10-year absence, I went to England in Feb. with a Southeast Rail pass. What a difference in the rail service. It had gone downhill considerably, i.e., first class does not guarantee clean coaches and there are cancelled trains, incomplete routes and unexplained delays. For example, in catching the Eurostar at Ashford, we had more than enough time, schedule wise, to make our connections from our small village 20 minutes away. However, because of unexplained delays, we only had 9 minutes to spare upon reaching Ashford! The stress, as our tickets were only good for that particular trip! That being said, train travel is still the best and safest way to get around and I would not hesitate to use the trains again. What I would do differently is to build more flexibility into our schedule, especially in the rural areas. Go for it!

AFAIK, at least some of the problems faced by british railways would be related to the fact that the private companies only bought the right to operate trains for a (relatively) short term period and so have no incentive to invest a lot of money for things (costly safety equipments, for instance) which wouldn't pay on the short term, especially if they don't intend to renew their licenses. <BR> <BR>Also, trains are operated by numerous companies, which could cause some desorganization. <BR> <BR>Finally, there's no hope that a private company will accept to run a train which is actually loosing money just because it is convenient or useful for the locals, as it happens quite often with a state owned company. <BR> <BR> <BR>However, it's only my understanding, and british people will know better.

I use the trains on a daily basis and can confirm that they really are quite awful. Some of this is the fault of the train comapnies, and other things are not. For example the trains into London during peak times are very overcrowded., and in the current hot weather unbearable. <BR> <BR>The main problem that the comapanies face is that the track etc was planned and laid in the 19th century. Since then demand has increased massively, and the infrastructure can't keep up. <BR> <BR>The other problem that they face is recalcitrant militant staff (this is also true of the tube). The staff recently staged a series of strikes because they were asked to wear name badges! <BR> <BR>THe staff appear to beleive that the railway is run for their benefit and that passengers are a nuisance.