LexieR

Hi Fodorites! At the last minute I've decided to join my BFF & her family on their Spanish vacation. There's one big hitch, my DH may come with me, but I won't know if he's coming until I'm sitting on the plane. If DH joins me, we'll rent a car in Madrid. If he doesn't I'll just take public transit for the two weeks I'm there.

The plan is to pick up the car and leave immediately for either Avila or Salamanca for a night or two, from there we'll go to Ponferrada to stay with BFF's relatives for a few days (this is the only part of the trip truly writ in stone).

Presuming DH comes, we'd like to drive from Ponferrada to the Picos de Europa for the Senda del Cares gorge walk. I'm presuming we'll need an overnight there. Any opinions on whether it's better to stay in Caín or Las Arenas de Cabrales? Early May still looks to be low season, so I'm not too worried about availability. Am I wrong about that? Anyone have any idea what the rates are for the taxi ride back & forth to the trail head at Poncebos is?

From there, we'd drive to San Sebastian to reunite with my friend who is utterly uninterested in the sporty detour. We'd base in S. Seb for a few days with a day trip to Burgos for a visit to the Guggenheim.

Here is where I'm at a loss. From S. Sebastian, what -I- would like to do is drive down to La Guardia via Pamplona (so that we can detour at Estella to see the turquoise waterfalls & pools in the Nacedero del Urederra in the Urbasa y Andina National Park) then go wine tasting at La Guardia. What DH will want to do is head all the way west to see Santiago de Compostela. Other than the big church there, and the trail of the Molinos de Picón outside of Vigo, I'm not sure what to do in Galicia other than maybe visit some of the Celtic castro sites.

The other issue is that if DH doesn't come I'm still at a loss. Obviously I can't do the drive to La Guardia via Pamplona & Estella if I don't have a car. Should I just suck it up and from San Sebastian head to Oviedo slowly via the FEVE, and forget trying to do any wine tourism?

Thanks!
-Lexie

ribeirasacra

I would love to answer your questions but I am confused. What is BFF and DH???
I also feel you have to know if you are going to use public transport or a car. Planning can be better organised once you know. The two methods of travelling dictate a lot about what you can and cannot do.
Where are you coming to Spain from? The US. Then please do not drive straight away, you should get over jet lag first.
Wine country in Asturias? There is none. once you have sorted out transportation then I can help you with suggestions.
How long is this trip for and are you taking this trip in May 2012 or 2013?

LexieR

Hi! Thank you! Sorry for cryptic acronyms!
BFF = Best Friend Forever.
DH = Dear Husband. The trip is this year, 2 weeks starting this coming Sunday. (Last minute plans always feel dumb.) On top of everything DH's father is having surgery on Thursday, so it will be impossible to know whether it will be me alone on public transit for a week (after traveling with my friend & her family for the first week) or him + myself with car rental. That's what's making planning this so tricky—I won't know my situation until I'm on the runway.

I/We are coming from San Francisco, CA. I'm hoping jetlag will be minimal as we will have slept all across America and then all the way across the Atlantic. But that is why I planned only to go as far as Avila or Salamanca after arriving, so there would be time to rest up. Of course if it's just me, I'll take the bus.

I think my fundamental question is what to do with myself after we all leave San Sebastian, especially if I am on my own.

If DH comes along, the wine country I was hoping to visit is Rioja as it seems the most developed, especially in the area near La Guardia, although I would be equally interested in touring the D.O. Ribera del Duero or Rueda if there were enotourism facilities. DH won't drink white wine at all.

With that said, I'm willing to scrap enotourism plans if it's just me, solo. What I don't know is what else to do after leaving San Sebastian. I speak fairly good Spanish, so I'm not concerned about going to areas with few to no English speakers. Primarily I'm interested in beautiful country walks, art of all stripes, public thermal baths, eating & drinking things that are good quality but not particularly fancy, and pre-19 C architecture. Not so interested in churches unless they have some sort of historical significance outside of religion (eg Yuso/Suso).

Ugh... why do I make last minute plans???

ribeirasacra

It is still going to be difficult for us to give advice a car will allow you to see more and spend more time in locations.
The two wine areas you have thought about visiting means a car or find organised tours once you are based at a town. The tourist information office will have the right information. Most Bodegas (wineries) will need to be pre-booked).
Again I would strongly advise you not to drive the first day or so. Sleeping on a plane does not have any affect on jet lag it is your body clock. Driving in Spain is nothing like that of the states.
I do not understand why you want to take day trips from SS to places like Burgos. And then you wish to also visit the wine region Ribera del Duero and Rioja.
For me your plan is like picking locations with no real route. Have you sat down with a map and looked at where you want to go?
I know this sounds harsh but it has to be said.
The Spa city of Spain is Ourense, Galicia. It is near to where I live, a wine region called the Ribeirasacra. We also have the biggest concentration of Romanesque style buildings, outside of a city, in Europe. However, they all have some religious importance; Ribera Sacra basically means scared river banks.
In answer to your fundamental question have you thought about taking the FEVE narrow gauge train along the North coast?

http://www.renfe.com/viajeros/feve/index.html

CathyM

All I can say is keep it simple!!! You are leaving on Sunday for 2 weeks and this is not at all organized. If you are depending on public transportation you should review the bus/train timetables to ensure your routes and timing is even feasible. I wouldn't attempt to cover the geography from Madid to San Sebastian to Santiago even with a car.

How long do you have after San Sebastian? It's hard to follow the itinerary around # of days and where you'll be.

I'd plan for the husband to not be there so you are fully prepared to use bus/train. If he's able to travel, great. But worst case you'll be prepared.

It's difficult to just wing the Rioja or Ribera de Duero - most bodegas require reservations as the previous poster notes.

CathyM

I meant to add - you'll likely be very jetlagged your first day. It's a 9 hour time change in addition to 15-20 hours of flying/transit time. Unless you're a very heavy sleeper or traveling business/first class you'll be sleep deprived plus have the 9 hour time change to deal with. The first day will probably be a bit "foggy".

Have you or your friends ever traveled to Spain? If not then another reason to keep it simple.

LexieR

Thanks for all your help, I really appreciate it.

The plans for the first week of the trip are out of my control—can't skip the Madrid to Ponferrada to San Sebastian leg, that was the whole point of the journey. I don't really think my friend's idea to make day trips to Burgos & Bilbao from San Sebastian makes much sense, but she's made the decision and it's out of my hands.

After San Sebastian, I have 6 days, one of which will be dedicated to getting back to Madrid.

I'll look more closely at the FEVE line; that may be the right answer. I'm concerned about being bored just on my own. I intensely dislike spending travel time by myself, so distracting myself with lots of activity is key.

LexieR

I lived in Sevilla for about a year when I was younger. My friend's relatives that we are visiting in Ponferrada and traveling with to San Sebastian are Spanish.

I am a heavy sleeper. My experience has been that I'm ok on the first day, and jetlagged the second. This was why I wanted to spend 2 days in Salamanca; get there safely, then collapse.

I'm also comfortable with long distances and long days. It's a 50mi/80km commute just to get to work in the morning.

CathyM

How long are you in Sebastian (ie. How long is a few days)?

You may want to stick to larger/mid-size cities if you like to keep busy when you're by yourself. Personally I'd also have the hotels booked if I were by myself and using public transportation. Doing wine tourism by yourself may be a little boring if you don't like traveling solo and like to be on the go. I've gone to La Rioja several times solo using public transportation but it's a slower paced travel and I like being by myself time.....

amer_can

Direct buses from MAD to Salamanca on arrival!!!..clean, comfortable and non stop. Right from the airport gate which is very convenient. Sala. is awesome!! Super great for walking and Tapas, Cava and Rosado!!! Try to get to Calle Van Dyke for non stop tapas and it is not a particularly touristy area, not a very far walk from old town. Rufos is a good place. Valor for chocolate..Gil for pastries, Grocery stores for wine and deli. Jambon all over but try Lomo also. Loved Sala.as you can probably tell.

ribeirasacra

2 of us advise you about the jet lag. It is a serious issue. It can be like driving when very drunk.
Take the bus as suggested by amer_can.
You commute in SanF will be very different to a drive in Spain. Speeds are faster, roads have less lanes and you will have different rules to think about. The route you are taking you are talking of far greater distances.

LexieR

Thank you CathyM & Amer_can for your concrete suggestions, greatly appreciated, especially the Salamanca tips, they look very nice.

CathyM, I'd love to hear what you think the best approach is for visiting Rioja via public transit. (I still love wine most of all & I'd rather do some wine tourism and have a great time doing that one thing than have a bleak time doing things that aren't fun without DH.)

I overrode the 3 year max search function on the forum "advanced search" and found some lady's thread about touring Rioja & Ribera del Duero in 2008. That thread is about 5 years old now. Do you think the general information in the thread would still be valid?

CathyM

A couple of things:

How many days do you have in San Sebastian (a "few") prior to the 6 days on your own?

La Rioja is challenging (and you're limited) to visit without a car. But it can be done. Bus is the really only viable option. There are taxis but from Logrono or Haro they would be expensive to rely on for touring and I wouldn't rely on them being available for you in the smaller villages (I found out the hard way in Laguardia when I needed to take a taxi to visit a bodega and the only one in town was already being used by someone for the day).

If you were reliant on public transportation I'd probably base myself in one of these places:

Haro - purely for the fact that it has several bodegas in town so you could spend a couple of nights and visit 2-3 each day. Haro isn't the most atmospheric of towns and is pretty dead at night during the week. But it serves it's purposes. There's also a bus you can take to nearby Briones or Labastida. They're not frequent but you can make a daytrip as long as you schedule correctly.

Logrono - the largest town in the area and the most happening for food, shopping, activity. There really aren't any of the "biggie" wineries within walking distance. You can taxi to a couple but it would probably be about 20 euros each way and you'd want to make sure you have negotiated a pick up time to return. You can take a bus to Laguardia, Samaniego, Labastida, Briones, Haro, etc... and do daytrips. But it would be difficult to visit more than one bodega in a day given the infrequent bus schedules.

Laguardia - atmospheric wine village on top of a hill. There are a couple of small "cave" bodegas in town. It's about a 30 minute walk (one way)to Ysios and an hour walk,one way, to Heredad Ugarde (don't recommend the walk - no sidewalk and you're basically walking on the side of a busy road. I did it and wouldn't do again). You could probably arrange a taxi with your hotel to visit some nearby bodegas but prices would be dear I'm sure.

There are other villages where you could base but the primary issue is you won't be able to visit many bodegas in one day without a car given the bus schedules. Also you'll definately need to reserve in advance for the bodega visits. And the bus schedule doesn't always fit well with the bodega visit times - so you're stuck waiting around for often a couple of hours.

CathyM

I meant to mention Maribels guides - they're excellent.

maribelsguides.com

LexieR

We are 4 days in San Sebastian, with two planned day trips (not my idea, can't override) to Burgos & Bilbao.

Thanks for the info!

I had tried to use Maribel's website to look up festivals in Spain and that page wasn't linking to anything, so I presumed the rest of the site was inoperable. I'll take another look. Thanks! I appreciate your time & the information.

CathyM

You may want to stick our San Sebastian for a few more days. There's lots of daytrip opportunities using public transporation - Getaria,Zarautz,Tolosa, St.Jean de Luz, Biarritz, Bayonne, Hondarribia, Vitoria, Pamplona - just to name a few.

There's also the village of Olite, about 30 minutes south of Pamplona by bus, that has alot of little bodegas in town. Cute village too.

amer_can

Try Spanish Fiestas for a web site..Burgos is interesting.. We stayed @ Hotel Theatro..just in the shadow of the walls on the river..very conven. good price but the end of the beds are very sharp..Ouch, ouch, ouch a couple of times. They also have underground parking, 12 euros I think. you will however love the asque area..Charming, sea views, crashing waves, wonderfully groomed beaches and pinxhos (sp? but who cares??)..Burgos has a street of interwoven beech trees creating a covered walk way..beautiful..just out side the main entry to the old square.