Buzzy
I think your original post was just fine and I understood your intent and concern. Forums are great at taking good intentions and spiraling them way out of control. Any time you ask questions about anything GAY you are setting yourself up for ridicule. Funny how some people who expect open mindedness from others are so terrible at it themselves (and note I said SOME).

Buzzy: We are only trying to help-no defense needed-remember, Paris is an eclectic city, no matter which bar or restaurant we visit, there, even just touring on the streets, your husband will see unusual from small-town-home-people. That's part of the fun. I can tell you, the gays will spot you & hubby as being 'straight', way before yous two do. Hubby will find more shows of affection being displayed in a young-hip,atmosphere bar or restaurant than in a gay bar.Trust me, they are not going to attempt to 'flirt' or pick up your husband. The conversation, should one ensue, will be a lot more interesting and informative in general than in a pub-type place. They like nice places, they dress well, majority are very intellagent, and they fit in any setting, most of the time without being fingered out as gay. So I hope you both lighten up a bit, and just enjoy where you are when your there.

Buzzy, as a gay man, I was totally supportive of you until your last post. I wouldn't want to spend my time in a gay ghetto either. So I thought I understood where you were coming from. However, the use of religion to sanction bigotry doesn't fly. Never has and never will. If your husband isn't going to feel comfortable in a bar or restaurant where men are arm in arm (you call this ostentatiously gay?!), he should stay home. He's likely to see that anywhere in Paris (or Rome or New York for that matter), not just the Marais.

One thing that I think hasn't been mentioned is that IME gays seem to find the best bars and restaurants before the mainstream does.

Is this not true in Paris, also?

((I))

Come on Cimbrone...this line in reference to this discussion is ridiculous.

"However, the use of religion to sanction bigotry doesn't fly. Never has and never will."

That doesn't even make sense here. NOWHERE is Buzzy pushing her or her husbands beliefs on us or are they condemning you as a gay man. I agree with her, while I could care less if a couple of men wander by me arm in arm I WOULD feel uncomfortable in a restaurant/bar with lots of male affection going on (even though I doubt that would really happen very often). If your idea of bigotry is someone honestly asking if what she's heard about a gay part of town is real then you have very thin skin.

Someone being uncomfortable in an environment and trying to avoid it is not called bigotry.

Buzzy, I don't think there's any way your husband can visit Paris without having his sensibilities bruised in SOME way. It's a pretty open city. Not quite like when I was young (the street prostitutes then were VERY aggressive!) But there is lots that may offend. You might be happier elsewhere, perhaps in the country or a small French town.

BTW: Lots of straight men walk arm-in-arm in Paris. Generally, these are older people - one doesn't see it so much among the young.

I've been to many gay bars and restaurants and they don't sit around arm in arm.Rediculous!

"NOWHERE is Buzzy pushing her or her husbands beliefs on us or are they condemning you as a gay man"
Wikevia - this is not what Cimbrone said. Reread the quote. It makes absolute sense.
Post the same OP on the US board about San Francisco or Key West and check the reaction.

Sorry, Wekiva, I stand by my post. Buzzy says her husband is not "anti-gay in an aggressive way." Oh. Okay. He's just anti-gay. Well, in my opinion that's like being anti-black or anti-Jewish. No difference. Except that, sadly, there are still folks who think it's acceptable. It's not.

And I never thought it was bigoted to ask just how gay the Marais is. But being uncomfortable with two men showing affection is bigotry.

OK...we'll agree to diagree. In my book bigotry is complete intolerance. To me being uncomfortable in an environment is different than being condeming of an environment. The idea that if one's uncomfortable around gay people then they are homophobic bigots is false in my opinion. Oh well...at least we all love to travel! :)

Drats...I sure miss the ability to be able to edit your own post to fix misspellings!

Hey C,

>..being uncomfortable with two men showing affection is bigotry. <

I think that you are being somewhat thin-skinned here.

I am uncomfortable with:

Public Displays of Affection

People who express their religious beliefs as if they were the only option

People who wear their pants well below the waist line

People who speak loudly in a foreign language

People who demand that the rest of us accomodate their particular desires to our detriment

People who play their boom boxes very loudly

People who insist on displaying Lee's battle flag

People who talk loudly on cell phones

Am I a religious, racial, ethnic and cultural bigot or just an old fogey?

((I))

Well, Ira, some of your dislikes impinge on your own peace and quiet (cellphones, etc.) Others promote bigotry themselves (Lee's battle flag). And none of them are biologically determined. Nor do they belong to a group that has faced tremendous discrimination.

I agree that we can agree to disagree. But it's definitely something for all of us to think about.

In none of my posts did I suggest that Buzzy and her husband HAD to like gay people or hang around them. I just found her original post somewhat naive and silly. If you don't want to be around them in an establishment, just leave. I does bother me, though, that just the mere sight of them on the streets would be so troubling. How can you live anywhere in the world and insulate yourself to that extent?

GaryCA
Did anyone actually say:
"the mere sight of them on the streets would be so troubling."

I would be bothered by that attitude as well. I certainly don't feel that way and I don't think the OP feels that way either.

But she wonders if she should even stay in a part of town known to have a gay concentration. I don't think she should stay in the Marais with so much anxiety over it.

Hey C,

>And none of them are biologically determined. Nor do they belong to a group that has faced tremendous discrimination.

Ummmm, the boom boxes, the droopy pants, the foreign language ....? :)

((I))

And while we're at it, they should probably avoid the Vatican if gay people would make her man nervous.

That did it. I can't stop laughing.

GaryCA you are my hero. Off to enjoy my day of middle-aged, middle American homemakerness. And laughing. Cute.