I've been traveling throughout Europe for some 30 years and have pretty much come to the conclusion that it's usually not that a place is touristy but that there are just too many tourists.

Oh, should've added that the reason there are so many tourists is that a place is worth visiting.

I like the idea of doing the loire as a day trip, so perhaps i'll research that and a few other feasible day trips more.>

You can easily go by train to one chateau on a day trip and that for many may be enough - Chenonceau is one that is possible. But for 2-3 take the mini-bus tours that meet you at Tours train station - one that gets good reviews is ACCO-DISPO - http://www.accodispo-tours.com/tours.html - but there are several others.

Bruges- most love it and but some despise it for being heavily touristed - many Americans like it but locals seem to diss it and recommend instead Gent or Brussels.

But, to me Bruges is exceptional in spite of many tourists. I took over 1,000 Americans thru Bruges and Belgium on bike tours and nearly everyone of them loved Bruges - and me too -that's all I know.

Staying there was key - yes bus tour day trippers clear out in late afternoon and there are parts of Bruges that are untouristed and lovely too as most of the tour groups stick to the area around the main square.

and at night the ancient Flemish facades lining old quais are sublimely illuminated. To me, Bruges is exceptional and I would put it first on my list for Belgium - Gent, Antwerp and Brussels are nice too but much bigger and have only vest-pocket areas of Bruges-like old-world charm.

I agree that Bruges is exceptional, and nothing like Brussels or Ghent. I admit, I would like one day to stay overnight and walk around after dark.

<the reason there are so many tourists is that a place is worth visiting.>
Agree with this, too.

<what is it about bruges that divides people so?>
People on Fodor's who dislike Bruges are mostly Americans who pride themselves on living in Europe, and strive constantly to prove that they possess superior taste. Any place that attracts a lot of humans will earn their scorn for that and no other reason.

Bruges' charms and limitations are well understood everywhere else!

'People on Fodor's who dislike Bruges are mostly Americans who pride themselves on living in Europe, and strive constantly to prove that they possess superior taste. Any place that attracts a lot of humans will earn their scorn for that and no other reason."

Wow!!!! An opposing opinion draws this rebuke? Amazing!!

Why is it amazing? It's my opinion, as valid as anyone's.

but I would not say Fodorgarchs who dislike Bruges do not have valid reasons for that - just that first-timers IME usually love it and veteran travelers for whatever reason tend to like it less or even disdain it.

I think Bruges is a lovely place - and I would never say I "disliked" it. When you first posted, it did sound as if you were going to spend two of the six or seven days you have there, and I was merely observing that I wouldn't necessarily devote that much of somewhat limited time available.

That said, I am sure you will be charmed by Bruges - I know I was.

It's been a hundred years since I was in Bruges. Flew into Brussels on the short-lived People's Express Airline, $300 RT from SFO and drove straight there. I thought it a sweet place. It was in March, very few visitors and I remember it fondly. Spent 1 night then on to Paris.

The truth is no place that's worth visiting stays the same. My hometown, San Francisco, is a glaring example. I suspect when people seem to look down their noses at popular places, as often as not they're telling us that they were there long ago, it was great then, I know, I was there but you've missed the boat. An old person's way of balancing the scales when what they really wish is that they were going for the first time, young again.

Now one of those old people myself, I think about how places I loved have changed but only for us and no one listens to us anyway so I try to keep my mouth shut. What's true for me isn't true for them and I try to remember that.

I can echo MmePerdu's response. There are considerably more people traveling now than there were 30 even 20 years ago. I can remember being at Stonehenge, the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre. any number of places without a crowd or even many people around and ever having to wait in line. Those situations no longer exist. I do try to adapt but have certainly had my moments of whining about the number of tourists, the crowds, but I still maintain that there is a difference between a place crowded with tourists and a place that is touristy. I don't think anyone would shun Rome, Paris or London because they were too touristy. Unfortunately, for those of us that prefer our sightseeing with the fewest number of tourists are finding it an impossible task.

"People on Fodor's who dislike Bruges are mostly Americans who pride themselves on living in Europe, and strive constantly to prove that they possess superior taste. Any place that attracts a lot of humans will earn their scorn for that and no other reason."

I was one who was not impressed with Bruges. I don't live in Europe, and there are plenty of places I have visited that are crowded, that don't put me off. I'm glad I saw it, but I can think of no reason to ever return.

On the lighter side, reaching cult status is the film "In Bruges" Depending on your sense of humor, your taste in films, your feelings about Bruges etcetcetc.,this may or may not be better than a visit to Bruges itself.

When you go to Bruges makes a big difference - late May early June will be much less crowded than July or August -still be crowded but nothing like later in summer.

Tuesdays when group tours do Belgium it can be really maddening (joking -play on old phrase for bus tours and this tiny country)

Suggest the Fat Tire Bicycle day trip from Paris to Giverny. We did this on a Saturday. Meet at the train station. Got lunch at the Farmer's market. Picnic by the river. Expedited admission to Monet's home. Most highly recommended.

I would do

-2 nights in Bruges (I found it very charming, especially walking at night, bicycling around the windmills, visiting a chocolate museum etc..)

-4 nights in Paris

-2 nights in the Loire valley (you can even sleep in a castle if you want). My favorite sights in the Loire are Chambord and Chenonceau. Like PalenQ said it is very easy to travel there.


You don't have your daughter with you so you can move with more ease. Like Greg said, you will be back in Paris. I am sure you will be excited to show it to your daughter.

I like ToujoursVoyager's suggested itinerary - 2 nights in Loire yes you could easily by public transit see both Chambord and Chenonceau or other castles on train lines and a vineyard perhaps. Better for that if rent a car however).

(you can even sleep in a castle if you want)

Here's a good one within walking distance of Amboise:

https://www.chateaudepray.fr/?lang=en

Amboise is a perfect base - trains to Blois (bus to Chambord) and Chenonceau via St-Pierre-des-Corps (Tours) and its own great chateau overlooking the Loire - home of Francois 1er -who was said to have brought, figuratively, the Renaissance to France when he enticed an aging Leonardo da Vinci to Amboise to live out his final days here under Francois 1's patron in the Chateau Clos de Luce, really a large mansion, near the chateau - The Clos de Luce now exhibits of copies of many of Leonardo's eclectic inventions which hang from the celing and line the walls and showcases and thus is a very popular tourist place.

http://www.vinci-closluce.com/en

Amboise is also known for having troglydyte houses - a whole street of them just behind the chateau and some of them are now hotels - a novel place to stay too.

https://www.amboisetroglodyte.com/

https://www.airbnb.com/s/Amboise--France?type=cave

Anyway Amboise - easy to reach by train from Paris - is a great place to base -it has its own sights and also great chateau and good public transit to other chateaus or also convenient for driving to them.

Bruges is very nice, but is probably a lot smaller than you think, at least its historical photogenic area. If you go to Bruges straight from the airport and spend the night there, that should be enough -- walk around a bit on the first day to get your bearings and then do some 'serious' tourism the next morning and early afternoon. You could easily take a train from Bruges to Lille (Rijsel to the Flemish) and spend another night there as perhaps a less overwhelming introduction to France. From Lille to Paris is only one hour by TGV.

If you prefer to go straight from Bruges to Paris, you will still have to change trains in Brussels (although I think there is at least one direct Bruges-Paris train a day), but it is quite simple.

You will find more than enough to fill the rest of your holiday in Paris.

Take the boat cruises on the river, then go to see Ruben's museum or in the churches, then buy some lace.

I think the Memling paintings are more interesting than Rubens, to be honest.

https://www.visitbruges.be/en/sint-j...johns-hospital