NEED HELP BIG TIME!!
 

Hello everyone!!

Me n my husband n 2 friends (a couple too) are planning our honeymoon trip to Europe. Its going to be our first time n we r soo excited!!
We plan on leaving mid Sept, for around 3 weeks n would like to visit these cities (in order) :
Day 1&2 : Amsterdam
Day 3 : Amsterdam - Cologne - Prague (Cologne to prague taking the night train)
Day 4 : Prague (day tour) - Vienna (Prague to Vienna taking the night train)
Day 5 : Vienna (day tour) - Munich (Vienna to Munich taking the night train)
Day 6 : Munich (stop by just to drink beer haha) - Neuschwenstein castle - Interlaken
Day 7 : Interlaken (Jungfrau day trip) - at night go to Lucerne
Day 8 : Lucerne - Milan
Day 9 : Milan
Day 10 : Milan - Venice
Day 11 : Venice
Day 12 : Venice - Pisa - Florence
Day 13 : Florence - Rome
Day 14 : Rome
Day 15 : Rome - Barcelona (by plane)
Day 16 : Barcelona
Day 17 : Barcelona - Lourdes - Paris (Lourdes - Paris taking the night train)
Day 18 : Paris
Day 19 : Paris
Day 20 : Paris
Please let us know is this itinery doable or its to hectic?? Planning to use train as our main transportation... Any suggesstion are highly appreciated as we r totally blind in this!! We need some serious insights n advices!! Thanks in advance

I was tired by day 6.

Do you plan to see anything whilst traveling?

This is your honeymoon? I hope your nighttime activities are not as ....quick.

Am I reading this right- 3 overnight trains in a row? Hope you're getting a sleeper with a shower. No hotel for 3 days?

I don't know why tomboy is interested in your sex life or what she or he has against fast sex and why any of would care, but your itinerary is really not wise. Even if you have lots of stamina, you are not factoring in the fact that you don't know where you are going, will need time to buy learn your way around, find the sights you most want to see, wait on some lines, wash some clothes at some point (you can't drag that much luggage that fast).

I understand you want to see all those places. So do I! But two things occur to me:

You could have a really beautiful 3 week stay in Europe if you lingered in three or 4 fantastic destinations, especially if you didn't have to fly between them.

You and your friends probably won't have fun honeymoons being together ALL the time -- and you will have to be together ALL the time if you move this fast. If you stick to one place for 5 days at a time or 7 -- you can take some breaks from each other, rather than having to all hold hands 24/7 because you've only got 90 minutes at the museum before you need to pick up your luggage at the hotel to race to the train station -- you get the picture.

Decide which 2 or 4 areas of Europe sound most fun for you, and focus on making them suit the needs of all 4 of you.

I am sorry, this trip is just too schizophrenic for me to provide any comments that make sense.

Sometimes 'less' is more. You have a lot of 'more' here :)

Think about the places you would like to visit the most. Then narrow the list down. You will probably be going back to Europe many times. Everyone always thinks that they will be taking the trip of a lifetime. Well, that's what I thought back in 1983. Now I can't even keep track of the times I have been. Some number over 60. If you love Europe like most of us do, you will make a point of going back.

oh my God is my itinery that horrible??

Well me n my husband n my couple friends too like to travel a lot too, so sex will not be our priority in this travel haha..
We waited too long for this trip n now when we actually can do it, we want to see lots n lots of Europe.
Is it really doesnt make sense? Think of us as adventurers not honeymooners

They have more travel breaks on "The Amazing Race" than this.

This reads more like a FEDEX delivery schedule than a vacation itinerary. 20 days is a good amount of time for 3 destinations, not more. Do not underestimate what these locations offer individually.

One full day in Rome is simply not sufficient to see much of anything. 3 days in Paris will barely scratch the surface. You´re going to need an additional vacation to recover from the hectic pace of this one.

Re-think the 3 overnight trains. Even as a young person I would not have done that.

You are not going to see a lot. You're really not. You are going to see a bus tour idea of Europe. There is a huge difference.

If you run from one guidebook city and sight to another, you will see tourist eye-candy rather than Europe. You'll see Europe for tourists -- and Europe is so much more interesting than that!

You are going to spend all your time in transit and on lines waiting for the fun ride -- and it will be over in 3 minutes before you get on the next line.

You can go on the fun rides -- but you should also leave time to walk around the back side of the amusement park of Tourist Europe (which is the stupidest Europe you can possibly experience). The real Europe is incredibly beautiful. It can change the way you think about everything.

It really doesn't make sense what you are planning to do. It has no more adventure in it than a package bus tour for 80 year olds, all the famous sights in a row for five minutes.

My advice: Rent a copy of "Before Sunrise" and get a feel for how romantic Europe can be for young people.

Then rethink this trip.

"oh my God is my itinery that horrible??"

Yes, it is.

"Think of us as adventurers not honeymooners"

This itinerary is not adventurous, it is frantic.

The first ten days are a blur, with no time in these beautiful and important cities. Why even bother?

You need to cut out at least half of these destinations if you have any desire to see anything but train stations and hotel lobbies.

I am a train fanatic and have traveled the rail of Europe with railpasses for decades -just to state my bias clearly but i think for such a wide-ranging trip previewed - and one of the type i always do - taking the train makes sense simply because all your stops are big cities where cars are a liability - wide swatches of city centres are off limits to private vehicles - parking can be problematic and expensive - $30 day or so in Amsterdam last i looked - besides $7-8/gal fuel charges and excessive drop off charges if not return the car usually in the country in which you picked it up.
And yes if traveling that much consider some kind of Eurailpass - there is even a car and drive pass where you pick up your car at a train station - drive it thru some bucolic rural area without good rail service - drive it to another station and drop it off and get back on the train to speed to a distant city.
Anyway for loads of info on planning a European rail trip i always spotlight these Wunderbar links - www.seat61.com - especially good on outlining types of berths on overnight trains in your case - www.ricksteves.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com - download the latter's free and superb IMO European Planning & Rail Guide that has suggested itiraries - chapters on each country's rail system, etc.

There is an extensive (95 posts so far) thread called First-Timer Help that has information you will like. I suspect that much of the same content will be posted here too.

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-timerhelp.cfm

DaveMM

Meihan83, I am assuming you are serious and are not trying playing a joke on everyone here. So here is my best, heartfelt advice:

<i>Please let us know: is this itinerary doable or its too hectic??</i>

It is doable only insofar as it is "physically possible" to touch down the 18 or so cities you have mentioned.

However, It is way, way, WAY TOO HECTIC - to the point of being pure punishment and no vacation.

For three weeks you should stay in a MAXIMUM of four cities with perhaps a day trip from each bringing your grand total to eight places (a grand total of four different hotels). Again, this is the MAXIMUM I could recommend to you in good conscience.

You are thinking about this trip ALL WRONG. You really to think of this as the first of many trips you will take to Europe in your long life (I assume you are somewhat young and have at least another 40 years or so in you...).

Yup, it's pretty horrible. It's not even adventurous.

It's a combination of the rush of a "it's tuesday, this must be Belgium" guided tour with the stress and planning of individual travelling. More or less the worst of both worlds.

If you were doing these Top 15 of Europe as a guided tour tour, you'd at least not have to worry about luggage, transfers to/from airports/train stations, etc.

For example, day 6:
You travel all night, arrive in Munich in the morning, but for no other reason but to catch the next train to Füssen, visit Neuschwanstein, and get from there to Interlaken.
You invested around 15 hours of travel to see exactly one castle for 30 minutes. That is not a great return on investment.

Are you carrying everything in a backpack? Otherwise, the way your itinerary runs, you are going to be dragging around suitcases everywhere. Have you thought about laundry? 20 days means at least a couple of laundry runs.

Do you enjoy train stations and airports? I'm not being sarcastic, just realistic, because you are going to spend a lot of time there. You are showing 13 locations in 20 days.

We get these same kind of itineraries all the time on the board. Those of us that travel alot will usually say the exact same things. Yes, we were young once and could go like crazy. But even then, we usually had an idea on what we wanted to do.

Do I think this is a good plan you guys have? Not at all. Can you do it? Absolutely. Will it be fun? Who knows. Are you spending a ton of money and not really getting your money's worth, probably.

dave

Consider check out times and check in times for hotels. How long do you usually have to wait on a plane before takeoff or baggage after landing?

Europe is a continent and you are talking about crossing a majority of it in a fairly short period of time. What exactly do you want to see and do? Think of Clark Griswold and the Vacation movie. Yep, there's the Grand Canyon, let's go.

Night trains might make sense, but depending on the train and car arrangement, you will find you don't have Orient Express queen sized suites. Instead, you may find you are crammed into a small compartment with fold-down bunk beds. It'll be night, so you won't see anything either. And I like night trains.

I hope that doesn't come across as harsh, I just wanted to convey the severity of your miscalculation.

You did get one this right, the subject title: <b><I>NEED HELP BIG TIME!!

1. If you are really going this September, you have no time to lose in making your air and hotel reservations. DO IT ASAP.

2. You don't have three weeks. Your schedule lists 20 days, but your first day is shot on jet lag and your 20th day is shot checking out and getting to the airport.

3. Since you have only 18 days of actual time on the ground, I would pick 3 (or four AT MOST) places to stay for 5-6 nights each, get acquainted with the city, spend some time just strolling and, if you feel the need, take day trips to surrounding areas. Even five days in such cities as Paris, Barcelona, Rome and Florence barely scratches the surface. I suggest something like Rome, Florence and Paris, or Rome, Venice, Florence.

4. Each time you move hotels, you lose approximately one full day just in checking out of Hotel #1 and locating and checking into Hotel #2, not to mention the actual time in transit from H#1 to H#2. Fewer moves means more, not less, time for fun and enjoyment.

5. Convince yourself (and your travel companions) that you can and will return to Europe in the future and need not try to see it all this time.

T_T okok.. THANKS ALL for your insights!! 11 negative comments on my itinery then guess i'll have to believe that it really is horrible.. oh gosh
Zepolle, Scatcat, everyone, please advice which one should i take out from my itinery??
Yes we want to get the feeling of Europe.. not just being an ordinary tourist.. thats why we plan to do this road trip in the first place rather than joining a Tour.
We love sceneriess alott (we like photograhpy), never seen snow, n just want to enjoy Europe n get to see a lot of it (thats why i came out with itinery like that). Oh n we dont want too miss the iconic places too
(like eifell, cologne cathedral, coloseum jungfrau, etc)
Please advice us where to go? thanks again all

Yes we r serious n we r finalising everything n will make bookings in this week.
ive read seat61 and the all the trainschedules website and all websites about europe and based on that i made a detailed itinery on what to do each day on hourly basis (the one i posted here is only the big picture, what day where to go)
Maybe i m way too optimistic about my time calculation here..
ex : Munich - Neuschwenstein castle - Interlaken detailed would be : arrive at munich 6am then take bike city tour (approx 4 hours) then train ride to Fussen, arrive at Fussen around 3, go to Neutswnechtein castle - then castle tour approx 2 hours, then go back to Fussen to catch train or bus to interlaken (this i havent found the train / bus)

Even the iconic places are too many to see in one trip. Again, there will be many "next times".

Where to go? It's up to you and your friends - get their input too.

One of countless possibilities that would work for a young, adventurous foursome with an interest in the scenic and photography:

Fly into Paris

Day 1 to 5 - Paris

overnight train to Munich

Day 6 to 10 Munich (w/ day trip to Neuschwenstein castle)

overnight train to Prague (a bit out of the way, but very well suited to young travelers)
Day

Day 11 to 15 Prague

overnight train to Venice

Day 16 to 20 Venice

fly home from Venice

Again, just an example of something that works. There are many other possibilities that work equally well.

Consider flying open jaw into Amsterdam and out of Rome for instance. Maybe enjoy Amsterdam, Paris, Venice, and Rome?

meihan,
like the others I would agree you would be best served to limit your travels to 3-4 of these cities. just for simplicity, i would suggest either 1) eliminating all the Italian cities from the current plans or 2) focusing only on Italy.
Regardless, you might want to just check a map to determine the most efficient use of time. Assuming you are already commited to flying into Amsterdam and out of Paris...an itinerary like Amsterdam to Prague to Vienna to Munich to Paris seems to be a very busy but more logical approach.
But as the other posters have mentioned...each of these cities is best seen by simply walking the streets and interacting with the locals.

Bardo has the right approach, but I would add Rome to the end. I think 5 destinations is perfect for this trip.

this is going to be a test of a marriage if I ever saw one. It has worn me out just thinking about all that you guys are planning. It doesn't sound doable nor does it sound fun. I would cut out about three of these cities and would probably start on the tail end. I want to hear a trip report on this one. But aside from that Happy Marriage and Good Luck

THANKS all for the advices... i ll discus this with my friends n show them these posts..
Need to replan my itinery, not much time left sigh
*headache headache*

Too hectic? Uhhh...

What exactly do you (and your husband and friends) actually want to get out of this trip?

It looks like you mostly prefer big cities. Okay. But what part of a big city is it you like? The museums? The nightlife? People-watching? Nice restaurants?

Do you simply want to be able to brag to your other friends and family about how many places you went through? In that case, no it's not too hectic. You could probably squeeze in a few more cities, if you really wanted to. Personally, I'd go insane, but it's your trip and your life, so it's your decision.

Or do you actually want to see anything in any of the places you want to visit? In that case, drop at least half the cities and slow down.

About taking the night train, I think Scatcat asks some good questions. I will add one question to that. Are you absolutely certain you will be able to sleep on a moving train? Because if you keep waking up every time the train brakes you will be exhausted when you get to your destination. Being a group of four probably means you can avoid having to share with complete strangers, but you certainly won't have much privacy.

Have you looked on the train websites to find out if there will be trains going when you want them to? Are you going to buy train passes or point-to-point tickets? Have you researched the actual travel times, not simply physical distance, between the cities? How are you going to amuse yourselves during the time on the train? Sure, you're newlyweds and hopefully deeply in love, but if you sit in ordinary second class seats you will be sharing space with lots of people. Many of those will not appreciate seeing people "make out" in public.

On the days between two nighttrains, where are you going to put your bags? Will you carry them with you while sightseeing? Some museums and tourist sites will not let people bring large bags inside. If you plan to put them in "left luggage lockers", have you researched to make certain the stations actually have those?

And with that itinerary you will not have time to stop and do laundry. Are you going to pay someone in a hotel to do the laundry? Or are you planning to carry enough clothes for twenty days? Those bags will be big and heavy and difficult to handle on the trains. Sure, you could each take two smaller bags, but that gets difficult to keep track of after a while.

Have you talked this itinerary over with the friends you plan to travel with? Are you going to stay together all the time? What happens if you decide to split up halfway?

Are you going to book hotel rooms in advance? Or hope there will be beds available somewhere? If you book in advance and one couple decides to split off, whose name is on the room reservation?

How are you handling money issues? Will each person pay his or her own costs? Or are you dividing by couple? Will you split restaurant bills equally or do you plan to keep close control of who ordered what item? Do you have more or less the same budgets or is one couple much richer than the other? Do you all have the same ideas of what you want to spend your money on?

Do you actually want to remain happily married and close friends with the other couple at the end of the trip?

Eighteen days sounds about right for 3 places (and, if needed, could add some day trips from your bases).

Fly into Amsterdam and out of...Paris? Then add a place between Paris and Amsterdam...Or, do a Amsterdam - Paris - Munich?

As long as you know the landing and departure, that takes care of the plane ticket.

Remember...the more cities you have, the more hotels you need. The closer in you are to going, the higher the odds that you will have troubles getting the exact hotel you want on the exact night, in every city. So you start having to compromise. Winging it...maybe..but on a honeymoon..?

If it were me, and keep in mind this is my personal preference, I would drop Amsterdam, Cologne, Vienna, and Milan. You might can squeeze in the rest. And also I would just do a day trip from Rome to Florence. And I like overnight trains, but I get a sleeper with bathroom and shower. But you are young and with 2 other persons traveling together, you could get a 4 couchette cabin. It will save you daylight hours.

But you decide the places that you absolutely will not give up. I also love the Jungfrau area, but do not expect to see snowfall in September except on the tops of mountains. At Junfraujoch last September, it was warm but still had snow on the ground. I don't know if I would travel that far for just one night.

Forgot one---I would also drop Barcelona. Again my preference and it's too far out of the way.

Scary! It's the movie, "If it's Tuesday, it Must Be Belgium".

As for how I would plan the trip....3 weeks and 3 countries unless a 4th one is very close by another one. Happy Travels!

I'd second CaseyMorgan's basic suggestion as a good introduction to Europe:

CaseyMorgan on Jul 26, 10 at 11:54am
Consider flying open jaw into Amsterdam and out of Rome for instance. Maybe enjoy Amsterdam, Paris, Venice, and Rome?

Way to much time geting from point A to point B .Pick three places and stick to them at least when you leave you will have some idea of what you have seen.

They have been there for hundreds of years .They arent going anywhere at this point You can always go back .After you go to Europe onces you live for your next trip back.
Slow down relax and enjoy the adventure.

Other posters are more expert than me (We did one trip in 2006 and are planning our next one for 2011), but I thought I'd mention our trip, in case it provides any perspective.
Our trip was a gift and planned for us: 3 nights in Rome, 1 in Prague, 4 in Bavaria, and 3 in Paris. We would never have planned it that way ourselves. It was fabulous but exhausting!! We flew between cities.
3 nights somewhere = only 2 days, hardly time to get oriented.
Arriving in Rome, we were very jet-lagged. One day for the Colliseum and 1 day just to "experience" what it felt like to be in Rome. Game over.
Prague was so exciting!! Our 24-hours there were action-packed. We loved, loved, loved it!! But please, spend at LEAST 2 nights there, maybe 3 or 4. So much to see and do! Lots of night-life. Fabulous architecture. History. Wow!
In Bavaria we were able to wind down just a little and spend an entire day doing laundry. Even 4 nights was too short. We took daytrips into Austria as well.
By the time we hit Paris, we were fully adjusted and had learned how to maximize our short time there. The answer was no sleeping. We hit the ground running and pretended we were in our twenties, walking everywhere day and night, taking night tours and night cruises, and meeting and visiting with Parisians in their daily lives as much as time allowed.
It was a great experience, but now that we are planning our own trip, we will go to only 1 or 2 countries MAXIMUM for 2 or 3 weeks.
So please listen to everyone's advice and then do what you feel is right for YOU. And have a memorably wonderful trip!

Ditto what everyone else has said.

plus - when you go home, europe will still be here. you can come back.

I am with everyone else, this is just not doable in any enjoyable fashion. Please, please reconsider, don't panic, in September it will not be that busy, well not like June July etc, and if you are moving at this pace I figure your top choice of hotel is not a priority, you wouldn't have time to enjoy them anyway!!

Take a BIG deep breath, slow down, and pick four destinations. Drop all the ones that are out of the way and focus on the places reasonably close to each other. Everyone has different favourite places, I would of course put Paris in the mix having spent a month there last month. As you can see I travel in a different way, but it is also not my first trip to Europe so I understand the want to see as much as you can. As all the others have said, if you travel at this pace you won't see anything of anywhere anyway!!!

Good luck, but please re think BIG TIME!!
Schnauzer

this goes the movie one, no make it two, times worse

How about "If it's Tuesday between 1 and 3, it must be Belgium"

I want to see the outcome of this one! bookmarking.