You asked what to remove. On first glance, Barcelona, it is not located next to anything else you plan on seeing.

Then Prague and Vienna. Amsterdam to Munich to Switzerland will make more logical train connections.

Also Milan really only needs about 4 hours so you could stop there on your way to Venice to break up the train ride.

If you remove those you could have a decent, but still hectic, trip.

ok guys.. me n my friends are trying to take out the cities one by one..
first.. drop prague or vienna? so we can have 2 nights either at prague / vienna.. which one is more efficient (travel wise) if say, we r gonna keep the rest of the itinery.. so cologne - prague - munich or colonge - vienna - munich?

Enjoy!!

Meihan83: CaseyMorgan's suggestion of Amsterdam/Paris/Venice/Rome is a good one. That's doable. And of course there are other doable itineraries. But, your original one just made me beyond dizzy.

I've been doing Europe, almost annually, since 73, when I was first in my teens and although for over a decade I would be away for 11 weeks straight, I never even did an itinerary like your original one. I like to "absorb" the experience or just slow down enough to even have an "experience". Smiles. Happy Travels!

There are a number of cities that I would drop, same as everyone here, either out of personal preference or because it's not worth covering the distance for such a short stay. On the other hand, I am not against the idea of a whirlwind tour, but only if it is part one of two (or more) different trips. A first trip can give you a brief overview of where you want to spend more time in the future.

Nobody should look upon a trip to Europe as the trip of a lifetime anymore, but just one of many.

"Also Milan really only needs about 4 hours so you could stop there on your way to Venice to break up the train ride."

Having spent weeks there over the year, I heartily disagree but I do find Milan an odd choice for a first timer's itinerary,

Have you looked at a map and consulted a train schedule? It would be quite easy to determine which cities are the most logical to include if you have these at your fingertips.

Book an open jaw ticket and move in a logical direction, using your map and train schedule as a guide.

This statement: "Munich - Neuschwenstein castle - Interlaken detailed would be : arrive at munich 6am then take bike city tour (approx 4 hours) then train ride to Fussen, arrive at Fussen around 3, go to Neutswnechtein castle - then castle tour approx 2 hours, then go back to Fussen to catch train or bus to interlaken" is pretty much impossible. Bike tours are not going to start at 6am and a day like this leaves no time for lunch, let alone the time needed to travel, which is more than just the train ride itself.

I would pick a maximum of 5 destinations, preferably 4, and choose those that are either logical or the most important to you. Instead of running all over the place, choose base locations that allow for lots of day trip options as I suspect you will all need a break from each other and this will give each person some independence.

Night trains are not famous for providing a good night's sleep and your use of them - primarily as hotels to get you to the next major city where you plan a "day tour" - is simply not feasible.

Night trains are not famous for providing a good night's sleep and your use of them - primarily as hotels to get you to the next major city where you plan a "day tour" - is simply not feasible.>

this is a value judgment - how many overnight trains have you taken - i've taken literally hundreds and have always arrived bright and fresh after a good night's sleep and yes i use them as hotels to get to the next city - great use of time and saves money as well - i have taken subsequent night trains and again it is whether the person can sleep well or not - the mantra on Fodor's seems to be that no one can ever sleep well on night trains - well i can tell you that many of my fellow couchette passengers certainly seem to do.

Meihan83,

I'd also add my recommendation to the Amsterdam/Paris/Venice/Rome suggestion. We did Paris-Venice-Florence-Rome-Amsterdam 7-3-8-3-3 (days) but obviously we had almost a week more to play with. Given your schedule, I'd recommend

Amsterdam - 3 days (allowing for jet-lag recovery)

Paris - 4 days

Venice - 3 days

Florence - 4 days (surprised it hadn't popped up here earlier; depending how you feel about Florence, you may want to just day trip it from Rome and apply the extra time elsewhere [I'm a Firenzephile so you can't trust my bias that way :)])

Rome - 4 days

The suggestion of flying open-jaw is good one. Good luck on getting everything tied together in time.

K

<i>Meihan83, ok guys.. me n my friends are trying to take out the cities one by one..
first.. drop prague or vienna? so we can have 2 nights either at prague / vienna.. which one is more efficient (travel wise) if say, we r gonna keep the rest of the itinery.. so cologne - prague - munich or colonge - vienna - munich?</i>

Prague vs. Vienna: I think Prague is much more suitable for young travelers. They are about equal in terms efficient travel. Prague.

I am still unclear however about what remains.

Is the new itinerary:

1)Cologne - Prague - Munich?

or

2)Amsterdam - Cologne - Prague - Munich - Interlaken - Lucerne - Milan - Venice - Pisa - Florence - Rome - Barcelona - Lourdes - Paris?

If it's #1, you can add one (I would suggest Paris or Venice).

If it's #2, you still need to do some serious cutting

I think people suggesting itineraries here are overlooking that the group seems to put beautiful scenery just as high on their wish list as "iconic" sights. They might enjoy some time, I would think, in Switzerland or Bavaria or scenic Italy.

I've never done a train journey from Northern Europe into Italy, so I can't offer a route. But I don't think you need to give that up --- and personally, just for myself, I'd sooner give up Venice for days in Switzerland and the Italian lakes than vice versa.

I just looked at a map of Europe and looked at the wish list and need to cut it down.

Were it me, I think I would want to go from Amsterdam into Germany, spend some time in scenic Germany or Austria before heading into Italy, probably Venice and Lago di Como, back up through Switzerland to Paris.

I would not try to include Rome in this trip UNLESS I was thinking of taking the overnight train from Rome to Munich. But even then, I'd feel like I had to cut out most of my scenic time. I can't see a good route that wouldn't be rushed. Rome is too far south.

"this is a value judgment - how many overnight trains have you taken"

It certainly is and I have taken only three and would never do so again. It is an opinion based on my personal experiences. One was downright dangerous, traveling to Palermo when I was younger and we were harassed continuously by soldiers traveling on the same train. The others were simply too noisy to get any sleep.

To each his own...

Night trains are not famous for providing a good night's sleep and your use of them - primarily as hotels to get you to the next major city where you plan a "day tour" - is simply not feasible.>

Yes to each his own, i agree but your statement does not allow for the possibility that that cannot be a good strategy - and one that i use continually, even now as an oldster

I recently hopped a night train from Amsterdam to Munich - spent a nice day there bopping about - just threw my luggage in a station locker and around 8 or 9 if i recall i boarded the train, laid down on a comfy enough couchette bed - read - drank some wine and went to sleep.

Woke up fresh in Rome where i stayed some days - but the night trains were one way to quickly relocated from one end of europe to the other - and yes saving two night hotel charges en route - couchettes cost me - with a railpass - about $25-30 a night.

Yes it depends on the person - for me it works and it could well for the OP and i do not take kindly for you to say my travel style <is simply not feasible.>

It is very feasible for me at least.

Meihan83 - I'm thinking you were born in 1983 - not a graduate in 1983, so you likely have more energy than 75% of the posters on this board.

However, trust those here who are recommending that you pick 3 or 4 cities and then factor in a full day (or night) for travel between them.

I disagree with those saying that you can't get good sleep on a train, but take into account your own sleep patterns and whether you will feel secure, whether you mind sleeping in a shared pullman with the other couple, and be cautious about your passport and money while sleeping on a train. Mischief abounds in the late night hours!

My one suggestion that you will not regret?

Stop. Sit. Sip.

Pick two countries, enjoy two countries.

You know there is a tour that someone posted a while back that sounded a lot like this, except they included london.

Seriously, unless you are just checking off a list of places you've been and you're happy with that, reconsider this trip.
What are you really interested in doing? What do you think of when you think of going to Europe?

Answer those questions, and we can help you. :)

My first trip to Europe was a one week stay in Prague and Prague only. I easily could have stayed longer. My second trip to Europe was 2 weeks with 3 days in Paris and the rest in Greece. I barely scratched the surface of exploring Greece in that time frame. This fall I'm going to Germany for two weeks and my itinerary covers about 1/8 of the country and I'd consider it VERY aggressive for that time frame.

As others have said, you'd be better served to narrow your trip down to 3-4 cities. Once you've done that start doing your research on all the things to see and do in those cities. I'm betting you'll realize you're better off with just 3 cities. Good luck and have fun!

Meihan83 Looking at your list, if I had to pick four iconic cities to visit I would go for Amsterdam, Paris, Venice and Rome. Each has its individual character, its place in history and unique feel.

When you get to each one you will not want to leave.

The advice you have been given is really sound. I live in Europe and have spent years working my way around the place and would typically spend a week in a city. Some I go back to again and again and still have not seen everything.

There are so many layers to European cities

What ever you decide to do, let us know how you get on.

Again, I think meihan83's wish-list prominently included scenic, non-city destinations, and that's what she emphasized in her posts.

It's often true that trains mainly connect cities, but can any of the train mavens offer the foursome some scenic destinations available by train -- like maybe in Switzerland, Austria or Italy's Dolomiti? They are traveling in mid-September

Day 1-3 : Amsterdam
Day 4-5 : Vienna
Day 6-8 : Interlaken
Day 9-11 : Venice
Day 11-13 : Venice - Pisa - Florence
Day 13-16 : Rome OR Barcelona
Day 17-20 : Paris

<<Again, I think meihan83's wish-list prominently included scenic, non-city destinations, and that's what she emphasized in her posts.>>

I don't see that she mentioned this. Did I just miss it?

"would like to visit these cities "

"we r totally blind in this!! We need some serious insights n advices!!"

"we want to see lots n lots of Europe."

"We love sceneriess alott (we like photograhpy), never seen snow, n just want to enjoy Europe n get to see a lot of it (thats why i came out with itinery like that). Oh n we dont want too miss the iconic places too
(like eifell, cologne cathedral, coloseum jungfrau, etc)"

"ok guys.. me n my friends are trying to take out the cities one by one..
first.. drop prague or vienna? so we can have 2 nights either at prague / vienna.. which one is more efficient (travel wise) if say, we r gonna keep the rest of the itinery.. so cologne - prague - munich or colonge - vienna - munich?"

Meihan83 posted:

"We love sceneriess alott (we like photograhpy), never seen snow, n just want to enjoy Europe n get to see a lot of it (thats why i came out with itinery like that). Oh n we dont want too miss the iconic places too (like eifell, cologne cathedral, coloseum jungfrau, etc)"

My mother always told me. . . My mother always told me. . .

Sorry! The problem is that I think I need a translator to help me n my husband n 2 friends. I'm feeling very old and I'm not even middle-aged.

Good luck, zeppole. I think you might have a real handle on this. You're the text whisperer.

Hi Guys.. me n my friends had replanned our itinery.. n we decided to extend our stay in europe for around 25 days.
i will post my new itinery soon. damn my laptop is crashing all my eurotrip data is there...
but basically its like this :
amsterdam - cologne(stop over only) - interlaken - venice - florence - rome - barcelona - paris - galway(ireland) - scotland - london - amsterdam.
I think this is our FIXED itinery as we ll agreed on it n i have shown my friend these post n told them that this might be too hectic, but they decided to go on with this itinery.

I m in charge of the transportation here so i really need advice on the trains connection.. in particular from cologne - interlaken.. (planning on taking the sleeper train) so we can arrive at interlaken in the morning. Whats the best option n where can i book for this train? thanks again in advance

If you want to see snow, I am surprised that Switzerland is not on your itinerary.

I mean "has been removed from your itinerary."

It is becoming more and more difficult to find night trains since trains go a lot faster now. Cologne-Interlaken is probably not a big enough distance to have a night train.

25 days.
12 places.

Still looks pretty busy. "Scotland" covers a lot of ground.

mom23rugrats : yeah me n my hubby born in 83, my friend also 83 except her husband is 5 years older than us :D 3Ses.. got that in mind mom!

Lsky : "What are you really interested in doing? What do you think of when you think of going to Europe?
Answer those questions, and we can help you"
you know for us having a trip like this is like a 20 years investment.. consider it like this : we ll not going back to europe till around year 2030.. after this trip we r settling down, having kids, take care of our business, a lot of things to do...
So yes, in this trip we want to see LOTS of Europe and have a fun n memorable journey, go to the iconic places take pictures n maybe we can tell our kids oh we ve been to eifell, oh thats picture of mom n dad at jung frau top of europe. yet we dont want to lose the adventurous facts of this road trip, chasing trains, got lost in the middle of nowhere --> thats the fun part isnt it :D, then we ll have a story to tell our families how "chaotic" our trip was ahah
Guess that ll describe what we want to get from this Europe trip :)

kerouac : interlaken is in swtiz rite?
"Cologne-Interlaken is probably not a big enough distance to have a night train" oh really i ve read somewhere in the internet they said its 6-7 hours train ride? what i wonder here is, is there any direct night train from cologne to interlaken?
Peter_S_Aus : yeah we havent decided what to do in scotland, thats my husband's part, searching on what to do in each cities. on Ireland, we wanted to stay (for 1 night) on one of the castles, maybe Ashford castle.. is it worth it? its quite expensive..

Cologne-Interlaken

Take night train to Zurich, departs around 11.30pm, arrives Zurich around 8.30am.
Take regular day train at 10am from there to Interlaken (at least 1 connection per hour, 2hrs travel time, one change required at Bern). The station in Bern is very close to the old town. You can walk there in 5-10 minutes and visit and take next train to Interlaken if you want.

You won't get that connection on bahn.com if you make a query Cologne-Interlaken. You have to make two seperate queries Cologne-Zurich, Zurich-Interlaken.



Paris-Galway

check whichbudget.com for low cost airlines
alternative: Paris (Beauvais) - Shannon (rental car Shannon-Galway -Ashford castle)


What to do in Ireland?

Depends on how many hours you plan to stay on the island.

If you plan wisely, you can on certain days catch a morning flight from Paris-Beauvais to Shannon.
You'll land around 10.30am.
Pick up luggage and rental car and be ready to drive away at 11am.
Drive from Shannon AP to Buratty Folk park (15min drive, almost next door to the airport, 1 hr visit plus 30min for lunch), next is Ennis (nice Irish small town, with a 8.5 on the quaintness scale; 30min drive, 30min visit), then to the stunning Cliffs of Moher (a certified Must-See, 30-45min drive, 30min visit), drive along the coast thru the Burren to Galway (be generous, allow 1hr for drive, many viewpoints). Visit the city center of Galway (30min and have early pub dinner). Drive to Galway airport, drop off rental car and take 7.40pm flight to Edinburgh / Scotland.
That's almost 8 full hours in Ireland, and you save the high costs for staying in the castle.

cowboy1968 : thanks for the cologne interlaken insights..
in Ireland, we ll have 3 days.. planning to take morning flight to Ireland from paris, then yes rent a car, check in at Ashfrod, relax enjoying the castle, second day we ll have full day for day tours around the Island, then we ll leave for scotland on the third day in the morning
"you save the high costs for staying in the castle" is the castle not worth staying? I checked at the ashford's website theres a package for 1 night 510euro for 2 ppl incl breakfast n 1 table Dhot dinner in the restaurant.
We want to experience staying in the castle, like they said on the net "not everyday you can sleep n wake up in a castle"

I can promise you that this will not be your last trip to Europe, those grandparents will take care of the children at some point so you can get away again, and if you don't ever return it is still better to have quality of Europe instead of quantity. I think you would really enjoy Prague, most young people do. Paris, train to Zurich, Interlaken, Wengen, Lake Como, fly out of Milan to Prague, not spending much time in Milan, and end up in London. I guess if all else fails with your head spinning, throw darts.

"Please let us know is this itinery doable or its to hectic?? "

So you have added two days, another country and not cut out any others, despite the recommendations of 98& on this thread that say it is not only hectic, but will not really allow you to see anything but train stations.

"yet we dont want to lose the adventurous facts of this road trip, chasing trains, got lost in the middle of nowhere --> "

You will certainly be chasing trains but will not have time to "get lost in the middle of nowhere" as all of the places on your list are cities and you will be spending most of your time traveling, not experiencing anything much at all. It is anything but adventurous IMO. It is grueling and sounds like an expensive train wreck of a trip to me.

Your budget must be huge.

I hope your trip in 2030 allows you to actually visit Europe instead of doing a flyover.

Sometimes, no matter how much good advice you are given, you just have to find out for yourself

returntoyourseat : yes i know it wont be our last trip to europe but we wont be back there for quite a long time. i know prague is beautifull (well everywhere in Europe is beautifull) but decided to skip it. i wished i have 2 months time for this trip.

kfusto : yes i know i m going against all odds in this forum, but what else can i do? my friends agreed on the itinery n all i can do now is to plan the best for it..

Meihan,

I have no new advice add.

Best of luck to you - please report back and tell us all how it went.

"yes i know i m going against all odds in this forum, but what else can i do? "

If your friends are not paying for your trip, then you can speak up and have a say in the itinerary and not let someone else dictate where you go and how much you are going to spend.

And, if it were my honeymoon, I certainly would not be leaving such a important trip up to someone else to decide.

Two more cents re your itinerary for you to consider.

I strongly agree with the advice you have been given to cut back on the number of cities you plan to visit and the amount of travel versus leisure time because of the number of locations.

You won't be experiencing Europe if you continue with your preliminary plans. You'll, at best, get a glimpse of what you could be experiencing. And your glimpse will be others enjoying the experiences you could be enjoying if you were not dashing about. Do you enjoy watching other relax at a dining table, take a river cruise, or stroll leisurely through a beautiful setting? You won't be doing these things, you'll see others doing these things as you pass through your destinations.

Every time I have traveled I have wished for more time to relax, experience, and reflect on my experience.

In my opinion, you are embarking on a marathon.

But, it appears you can't be dissuaded from your plans, in light of your determination, and this statement:

"we ll not going back to europe till around year 2030.. after this trip we r settling down, having kids, take care of our business, a lot of things to do... "

It appears you are not only committed to this plan but you have planned your life through 2030, which frankly amazes me.

Over twenty-five years ago I honeymooned for 21 days in Greece, on the mainland and several islands. We took the time to book an exclusive seaside resort and, horrors, did nothing but relax and enjoy each other in one of the most beautiful places I have ever seen (perhaps it was the company!). I hadn't a clue what the next twenty years would bring.

It was an extraordinary trip and we have many memories of a special time in our lives.

We returned, worked at our careers, bought a home, started a family - just as you plan to do.

And, we never lost our interest in traveling. We began to travel with our three children, because traveling with them meshed with our goal of including them in all parts of our life and we wanted them to understand and experience the world around them, something I didn't have the opportunity to do as a child or adolescent.

Don't plan this trip making assumptions about the next twenty years. Plan this trip for now.

Finally, my apologies for rambling on - a gold star for anyone that makes their way through my comment.

Good luck (and slow down)!

Well, okay then. You have a few more days than this tour would be, take a look at some "All of Europe tours" like this one and 3. http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-tours-omg.cfm

I suppose it's just hard for some of us to fathom the idea of just having our picture taken in front of the Eiffel Tower and moving on.

Have a great time.

God Bless you! You sound young, enthusiastic and adventurous - so GO FOR IT ! You've got a group of like-minded friends,the time, the money, the energy and an impossibly CRAZY schedule..but it will be the experience of your lifetime. You can always adjust your itinerery on the fly. Take all these comments with 'a grain of salt' (Some of these people take themselves too seriously) and follow your heart. I envy you!

kfusto : "not let someone else dictate where you go and how much you are going to spend." nobody is dictating anybody .. we all have a say in determining this itinery n we all agreed on it.
portiaperu : thanks for ur humble advice.. yes i think this would be more like a marathon tour trip rather than a relaxed honeymoon trip. its a bit sad but its ok i think we'll have fun.

Everyone thanks for your replies n comments
I was kinda hoping if this forum could help me with more info about train connections/booking from 1 city to another rather than "hushing" my itinery.. But its ok i can understand why everyone did so hehe.

Really need help with the train planning, if theres anyone in this forum would like to help me please email me [email protected] i would be really glad

oh n yes i ll report back how this trip went :D