julies

I need a little more advice for the end of our trip (late May into the first few days of June). 1 week in Venice, 1 night in Ravenna, 1 week in Sansepolcro (not finalized with down payment yet but decided upon after reading someone's favorable comments here).

That leaves us 5 nights and 4 days by the time we factor in the 6 hour drive from Sansepolcro to the lakes and our need to leave early morning on our last day to get to MPX. So, we've got 4 days to do things.

Is this about the right amount of time for Maggiore? We'd want to take the ferries to see the quaint towns, visit the gardens, do some walking etc. Stresa, from what I've read, seems like it might be a bit too crazy and over run with tourists at this time of year (and perhaps all of the time for us since we much prefer less-touristic locales). Other suggestions for other nearby towns to base that are charming and not crazy and on the lake and have apartment rentals?

Or, if you have a suggestion for an completely different locale than the lakes that would fit in logistically, I'd appreciate it. We live in a state with 10,000 lakes, so our quest is to experience Italy's manmade wonders rather than just nature and water. Thanks for helping me put this trip together.

bobthenavigator

I think Lago Maggiore is a great option.

The other option would be the Ligurian coast with either Portovenere or Camogli as your base.

julies

Bob--

Thanks. I know you are the expert on the more northerly parts of Italy. Liguria does look extremely interesting (and salt water rather than fresh water destinations are more different for us than home). I'll explore this idea more. The downside would be the need to move to a closer airport location the last night. From Maggiore we could just make the drive in the morning.

Which area is your personal favorite?

neckervd

Stresa in not overrun at all in late May, but the whole infrastructure will work. if you have a car, you may stay at almost any place around the Lake. Stresa, Ascona and Locarno are rather touristy (but it's not season in May), Arona, Verbania Intra, Laveno and Luino are the other bigger places, almost untouristy. Some untouristy small villages above the lake may be charming too: Nebbiuno, Colazza, Premeno, Trarego, Ronco sopra Ascona, Musignano, S. Abbondio...., but only the first 2 places are close to MXP.
http://www.maggiore.ch/?lang=en
http://www.illagomaggiore.com/?set_language=en&cl=en
http://www.lagomaggioreturismo.it/ing_home.html
http://www.lagomaggiore.net/uk/
http://www.lagomaggioreonline.com/?newlingua=UK&
http://www.ascona-locarno.com/
http://distrettolaghi.eu/en/
http://www.vareselandoftourism.it/
http://www.borromeoturismo.it/scripts/home.php?lang=en
http://www.cannero.it/uk/index.asp?a=0&b=0
http://www.museo-ogliari.it/
http://www.provincia.va.it/santacaterina/
http://www.villataranto.it/
http://www.gignese.it/museo/
http://www.giardinoalpinia.it/
http://www.mottarone.it/
http://www.comune.ortasangiulio.no.it/

bobthenavigator

" The lakes" are my favorite destination[s] in Italy.
Click on the Orta link above to see another favorite which is only :45 from Stresa. Also click on Villa Taranto.

julies

It took me a long time to go through all of those links. Thanks for posting all of them.

Would Orta be a stupid choice as a base if we also want to do some of the ferry trips on Maggiore to see the gardens and some of the lake itself? We will have a car.

And, if we are looking for an apartment or other self-catering for 5 nights at the end of May, would it be stupid to arrive without reservations if we decide on Maggiore? I know from other places we've stayed around the world that we've found just what we want in places that do not have an internet presence.

Thanks again.

HappyTrvlr

I would stay on Lake Maggiore and drive up to Lake Orta for lunch.

bobthenavigator

I agree--stay at Stresa and use the ferries.
Drive to Orta one day via Gignese.

Look at www.stresa.net

bobthenavigator

Meant to add---I like this place:

http://www.lalunanelporto.it/

stevewith

I noticed that you wrote you live in a state with 10,000 lakes (Minnesota, nice place!) so your "our quest is to experience Italy's manmade wonders rather than just nature and water."

Early June is a really brilliant time to go to Mantova, and it is very convenient to getting to Milan and it's airports, either by train or car.

it can remain fairly cool on the lakes until summer arrives, or just be rainy. You won't care if you are in Mantova and it rains because there is a great deal to do both in the town itself and in nearby towns and villages, including beautiful places like Asolo and Verona.

Mantova is surrounded by water, but if you start to miss looking at a lake, it is easy to drive from Mantova to Lago di Garda if the weather is nice and have lunch in a pretty town like Sirmione. It won't be crowded with June if it isn't a weekend.

stevewith

If you like to follow links, this is good article about Mantova, and its combination of water, romance, history and art.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/de...ity-guide.html

stevewith

Found another one, more recent:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/201...uty-city-break

I noticed that you also posted you would rather not relocate to get to the airport in Milan. You would need to do that if you stayed in Mantova. What some people might enjoy is the shorter drive from Umbria to Mantova, staying for 4 nights, and then making the 3 hour drive to Lago d'Orta for the finale. You could have lunch, visit the island on the lake in the afternoon, and then dinner. From there, it's less than an hour to Malpensa in the morning. Or you could also stay somewhere on Lago Maggiore. It's the same distance.

But if you choose something like that, you must reserve for your last night on the lake. If your last night in Italy is a weekend, pick a smaller lake town for lodging to avoid the possibility of wedding parties.

Personally I wouldn't find much to do on Lago Maggiore for 5 days, and I think Lago di Como is much more beautiful. So long as you pick towns away from Bellagio/Menaggio/Varenna, you don't find many tourists. While I am not much interested in gardens or cable cars to hikes, Lago di Como certainly also has these, and it is less than an hour to drive to gardens in Varese (and you can also visit the Sacro Monte there).

http://www.varesecittagiardino.it/en_lacitta.html

If you stay in a town like Brenno or Laglio on Lago di Como, you'll won't find tourists, and it's just an hour to drive to Malpensa airport like it is to from the other lakes.

yenisumit7

Hi
Lake maggiore one of the finest of 3 major Italian lakes. Other 2 are lake garda and lake como.
Since coming from lake country, your only option should be lake garda, the best of all. It's the epitome of all the lakes. From Riva in the north to Sirmione in the south, it's truly heaven on earth. Stay in the middle preferably in Garda village.
You can visit 7-9 major villages in 4-5 days with each offering variety of sight seeing.
Enjoy

julies

Thanks for all of the additional help!

Steve--Actually Mantova had been on my list of possibilities for places because it sounds very interesting. Plus, we'd been reading about all of the cycling paths around town for those days when we might want to do something else. I realize it is much less well known than the biggie Lakes tourist attractions, and those are frequently the types of places that attract us. So, I am torn.

I really do enjoy gorgeous gardens, and there are a lot of those on both Maggiore and Como. Before I read this post I had just about decided to split the time between those two lakes with a few nights on each. Now I don't know.

Perhaps I could get some advice from all of you who have visited these areas. We are not they type of people who are very into the super touristy towns. We don't shop, and we don't eat in tourist trap restaurants. We like to walk around and enjoy the ambience of a place, but I am a bit concerned when I read about some of the most frequently mentioned places on the biggie lakes that we'll walk around the promenade for an hour or so and then ask ourselves so what. However, I am quite certain we'd enjoy the ferry trips on the lakes or the possibility of renting some kayaks on Come (something I read about out of Bellagio) to get a different perspective on the lake.

Once again, thanks for all of the help.

stevewith

I think your concern in real and that it is great you understand what you do and don't like. Nothing wrong with being a picky traveler! I share your reaction to touristy towns, and I also travel for cultural interest, not mainly scenery or the picturesque.

The entire perimeter of each of the 4 famous lakes is given over to holiday development, some of it dating back to the 19th c., but some of it much more recent (particularly on Lago di Garda). From Nietzsche to d'Annunzio and from Mussolini to George Clooney (now there's a quartet!), the lakes are all about a cool escape from the stinky city. The lakeshores are lined with mainly luxury villas, with a few interspersings of service towns and more modest digs for the rest of us. At the most scenic spots, the towns have blossomed into full-fledged tourist depots and wedding venues, with all the downsides. On nice summer weekends, hordes of cooped-up urbanites from Italy's nearby cities race to the lakes for recreation.

If a big draw of going to Lago Maggiore is to be near Malpensa, then you need to stay not too much further north than Baveno, on that side of the lake. Ferrying around the marginally interesting Borromeo islands on the lake occupies you for 1 day tops, if you go at a snail's crawl. After that, the area is all about scenery and flowers, kicking back or hiking. That is true of Lago di Como as well, but I happen to think it is so much more beautiful than Lago Maggiore that it makes for the more rewarding stay. Beauty in eye of beholder, yada yada.

If you pick Lago di Como, you really should stay on the western leg of the lake, so you have a shorter drive to Malpensa. And don't go as far north as Menaggio, or else you get stuck right in the tourist zoo. (But do ferry up to Bellagio one day for lunch despite the touristy tat because that is THE view.) Just pick a small town, and don't expect much in terms of a °town." One option you might consider is 3 nights on Lago di Como and your final day in Baveno on Lago Maggiore, just to satisfy your curiosity about the islands and have the straight shot to Malpensa in the morning.

Lago di Orta is the quirkiest of all the lakes and the least visited. There are oddball towns you can poke around in at the northern end of the small lake (easy to get to). One makes pots and pans (high end). Another has a flute museum (or is it oboes?) If you can get a rush copy of the Cadogan Guide to the Italian Lakes and Lombardy, you would really have a wealth of detailed, objective information that includes candid descriptions of how touristy or un'touristy various spots are:

http://www.amazon.com/Lombardy-Itali.../dp/1860114024

Lago di Garda is hugely about active sports for families and is very popular with Germans. The northernmost part is dramatically scenic, but the southernmost part is far less so, and you would pretty much need to stay south if you were thinking of leaving from there to Malpensa (and it would be better to relocate).

Again, for me personally, I'd sooner be in Mantova or Bergamo (have you considered that?) when it comes to interest unless I am purposely looking to kick back with a book on a balcony overlooking the lake for 3 days in Italy. There are places in Piemonte along the Po I would also consider for biking and small towns with unusual cultural aspects. Little art towns like Vercelli or Novara (these, along with Mantova, are the rice fields of Italy) get ZERO tourism, but they have cultural fascinations plus are easy drives to showier places like Moncalvo and Alba. They're only an hour from Lago di Orta and the ferry docks on Lago Maggiore that tour the Borromean islands. And it is a straight shot to Malpensa.

Final light bulb idea:

How about splitting the difference and staying in Varese? It is only 30 MINUTES driving from Varese to Malpensa airport. It is a premier garden town with easy access to Lago di Como but none of the tacky tourism.

http://www.italia.it/en/discover-ita...ese.html#box_2

I think it is also possible to do a combination of car ferry and passenger ferry from Varese to see the Borromean Islands on Lago Maggiore if you want. If you get bored by all the scenery or get rained out, it is an hour's drive to Bergamo from Varese. Likewise to the wowser Certosa in Pavia.

stevewith

If you want to stay on Lago Maggiore, bear in mind that Stresa gets a huge amount of bus coach tourism, and it really alters the feel of the town. I think finding a b&b nearer to Baveno would be better for restaurants and some feeling of non-touristy authenticity. You can still catch a ferry to the islands. Pallanza adds a bit of extra driving to your commute to Malpensa, but not all that much, but I've never been there, so don't know what it is like. If you are willing to sleep away just a stone's throw away from the lakefront itself, things usually get dramatically untouristy, and that is true of all the lakes.

julies

Steve--

You are a wealth of information, and I can see we think along the same lines. I am going to spend some more time researching your suggestions.

I already have a copy of the Cadogan book right here because I have always liked the detailed info in these guides since they cover so much more than just the usual locales, and I trust the advice in them (too bad there aren't any recent updates). I guess I'll need to get my highlighter out and sit down to read it very, very carefully.

This is so helpful to have you describe the lakes in the way you have (with residential development all around them) because, from living here in Minnesota, we have seen first hand how over-developed and touristy some of the more popular lake places can be. And, for the most part, these types of locales do nothing for us. I think the other thing I may be starting to realize is that for many Europeans visiting these lakes is all about having a relaxing summer vacation at the lake, whereas for us coming from the US it is about trying to see the unique ambience and differentness of Italy. While an hour or two with a book on the balcony overlooking the lake sounds great, we are not looking just to sit and spend our days relaxing. We don't do that even at home when we take a lake vacation. But, I can also see that we'd probably enjoy a day just cruising around on the ferries to see all of the villas and gardens on the lakes.

A friend spent a day in Bergamo and said she really liked it, so I think I also need to look into it more.

Thanks again for all of the help. I have now also decided that just being close to the airport is not all that major of a factor in where we base ourselves. Our last day we could easily enjoy ourselves anywhere and then drive to an airport hotel at 9:00 at night, have a good night's sleep, and not have to get up so early to start the drive to the airport or worry about the possibility of heavy traffic or an accident that might cause us to miss our flight.

stevewith

People often talk about enjoying staying in Oleggio their last night and eating at a restaurant that I believe is called "L'uva e Il Volpe" (or vice versa -- the Grape and the Fox)

Some of the "over-development" of the lake shores is pretty splendid, especially on Lago di Como, but all the lakes have their share of centuries-old grand villas and astonishing fin de siecle hotels. So it's not like mcMansion sprawl. But "A Month on the Lake" is a tradiiton that goes way back in Europe, so you are absolutely right that there is a split between the summer holidaying Europeans who come to relax and the foreign tourists trying to make sure they experience all the "highlights". Another change is that the huge ornate lakeside hotels that formerly hosted entire extended families on holiday, serving them 3 meals a day, can no longer fill those rooms that way. That way of vacationing doesnàt exist in Italy or Europe anymore. So the hotels manage to stay open by a combination of grand summer events (music concerts, weddings, etc) and package tours.

The lakes are intrinsically beautiful, there are always peaceful spots even at the peak season, right next to the busiest places, the holiday atmosphere of grannies and kids tucking into giant ice cream bowls or feeding swans is pure fun (although that is more likely in July and August), so their popularity isnàt overrated. But if you are a bit allergic to touristy places, the tourist hot spots on the lake can be annoying or cringe'worthy, then maybe the Cadogan guide can help you find a hideaway with a view. Or you can go to Mantova!

Your trip sounds like a fabulous trip and it is pretty hard not to have a great time anywhere in Italy, even if you occasionally come up a cropper with this or that.

stevewith

I hit the button before saying what I wanted to add, which is that I would want to break up that long drive between Umbria and Milan. That was among the reasons I pointed out Mantova on the map, in addition it being a great combination of nature and culture. Everybody has a different comfort issue when it comes to traveling, but I would prefer a shorter drive out of Umbria, and then a short drive to relocate to be nearer Milan, rather than one day of 6 hours or so on the road. I can do the latter if I take lots of pit stops along the way, and others prefer to just get it all over with at once and minimize hotel switches etc. Chocolate and vanilla. Apples and androids. Sounds like you know your own style pretty well.