If you're Going to London and Have a Sense of Humor, Mingle with the Brits Because No One is Funnier!
Aug 11th, 2004, 07:37 AM
#21
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I think it's a very cultural and sensitive issue.
Just because British and American comedy is mutually understandable from a linguistic standpoint, it doesn't mean that we share the background in terms of humour. It's a very deeply rooted thing, and what's funny to one nation, community, culture or society is not necessarily going to be funny to another, even if they do share the same language.
After 6 years living in France, I still don't find French comedy funny. I've tried, and I see where the humour lies, but it doesn't tickle my funny bone - just leaves me cold (or mildy irritated). And when I first arrived here, I discovered that my own brand of sarky, cheeky humour didn't go down very well at all. In fact, I offended more than one person.
In the UK, being sarky is a sign of affection more than anything. We love to take the p***, and to us that means being able to dole it out or accept it. It's an integral part of being British.
I don't think that it's all about putting others down; rather, there's a sort of common notion that we should all be able to laugh at ourselves as well as others.
I've never felt that British humour was mean-spirited or based on a sense of one-upmanship (I mean that in general - I don't mean that there aren't unpleasant people willing to laugh at the misfortune of others - that's international).
Just because British and American comedy is mutually understandable from a linguistic standpoint, it doesn't mean that we share the background in terms of humour. It's a very deeply rooted thing, and what's funny to one nation, community, culture or society is not necessarily going to be funny to another, even if they do share the same language.
After 6 years living in France, I still don't find French comedy funny. I've tried, and I see where the humour lies, but it doesn't tickle my funny bone - just leaves me cold (or mildy irritated). And when I first arrived here, I discovered that my own brand of sarky, cheeky humour didn't go down very well at all. In fact, I offended more than one person.
In the UK, being sarky is a sign of affection more than anything. We love to take the p***, and to us that means being able to dole it out or accept it. It's an integral part of being British.
I don't think that it's all about putting others down; rather, there's a sort of common notion that we should all be able to laugh at ourselves as well as others.
I've never felt that British humour was mean-spirited or based on a sense of one-upmanship (I mean that in general - I don't mean that there aren't unpleasant people willing to laugh at the misfortune of others - that's international).
Aug 11th, 2004, 07:47 AM
#23
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I agree it is a cultural thing. The British use a lot of irony and sarcasm which can get misunderstood by other cultures. I think there is also an ingrained sense of seeing the "funny side" of things and of not taking yourself too seriously. As hanl says, you have to be able to take it as well as give it out. And no, I don't get the French comedy thing either...
Aug 11th, 2004, 08:35 AM
#24
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grenelle, I think this whole thread is a classic example of
1. people not getting the British approach to humour and so thinking we're all cruel sadists, and
2. taking things far too seriously, something Brits wouldn't dream of doing if at all possible.
Anyway, perhaps this article will prove helpful on the subject:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0%2C...0878%2C00.html
1. people not getting the British approach to humour and so thinking we're all cruel sadists, and
2. taking things far too seriously, something Brits wouldn't dream of doing if at all possible.
Anyway, perhaps this article will prove helpful on the subject:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0%2C...0878%2C00.html
Aug 11th, 2004, 09:03 AM
#25
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flanneruk - I agree that I can't understand the attraction of "Friends" (I have a friend who CRIED at the last show). But I might have figured it out. It's about utterly ordinary people doing the most mundane things. Maybe those who watch it either feel very comfortable with it or it makes their own lives seem exciting? I have English friends - masters of understatement. I'm always caught off guard by their humor; having a conversation requires brainwork. Delightful.
Aug 11th, 2004, 10:11 AM
#27
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The best humour on both sides of the Atlantic is the kind that has us laughing at ourselves. Who can forget Basil Fawlty (of Fawlty Towers) picking up a stick and beating his broken-down car with it. Because who hasn't wanted to do that with their old clunker? ("All right, that's it, you're really going to get it this time....." WHACK!)
As for the notion of which nation spawns funnier comedies, good grief. Competitive humour, what next. Brings to mind the super-competitive Violet Bucket of "Keeping Up Appearances."
As for the notion of which nation spawns funnier comedies, good grief. Competitive humour, what next. Brings to mind the super-competitive Violet Bucket of "Keeping Up Appearances."
Aug 11th, 2004, 10:26 AM
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Oh dear, let me be the first to fall for it. Violet wasn't the competitive one - she had it all already (the Mercedes, the sauna, the room for a pony, but sadly also Bruce - 'He did what, dear? Why was he wearing fishnet tights?'). It was Hyacinth who burned with envy.
Aug 11th, 2004, 10:34 AM
#29
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Hyacinth Bucket, sweetie. Violet is Hyacinth's sister. As in, "Ma sista' Violet, who has a Mercedes and room for a pony." 
As you can see, I am not very busy at work today. Maybe some shopping at www.shopnbc.com???
Hi, Mimi. Jackie O is blowing kisses to you.
As you can see, I am not very busy at work today. Maybe some shopping at www.shopnbc.com???
Hi, Mimi. Jackie O is blowing kisses to you.
Aug 11th, 2004, 11:10 AM
#30
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Not sure I can adequately comment on the "British humour is the most complex, and complete in the world." statement,other than it does seem a tad sweeping. Especially when one considers the humour of the Mongolians and the residents of Tristan da Cunha.
Aug 11th, 2004, 11:34 AM
#31
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in american comedy (TV, movie, etc), they:
1. set you up for the joke so you see it coming.
2. make the joke.
3. give a "punchline" to complete the joke.
4. give a sort of explanation of the joke to reinforce it.
5. run the laugh track so you know it is a joke.
in britain they just make the joke.
also, when something becomes a raving hit they pull it away (e.g. The office had 2 short seasons here). in the US, they run things several years after they cease to be fresh.
i agree with the others...american shows do have some popularity over here but have not made serious inroads and are certainly no where near the centre of it. sex in the city did have a pretty decent following and there are others of course.
1. set you up for the joke so you see it coming.
2. make the joke.
3. give a "punchline" to complete the joke.
4. give a sort of explanation of the joke to reinforce it.
5. run the laugh track so you know it is a joke.
in britain they just make the joke.
also, when something becomes a raving hit they pull it away (e.g. The office had 2 short seasons here). in the US, they run things several years after they cease to be fresh.
i agree with the others...american shows do have some popularity over here but have not made serious inroads and are certainly no where near the centre of it. sex in the city did have a pretty decent following and there are others of course.
Aug 11th, 2004, 01:26 PM
#32
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Not to be pedantic, but I've seen little recognition in this thread that there's no such thing as "British" humour. For the most part you've been talking about ENGLISH humour - and it seems to me, largely the humour of one (dominant) corner of England at that.
I suspect that American TV comedy tends to reflect the fact that Americans in general are polite people who seek to limit friction in social settings. The English have no qualms about upping the friction level, just to see what happens, or in the old American vernacular to "get a rise" out of someone. The best English TV comedy has a dark edge to it - Fawlty made you cringe almost as often as laugh. In social settings this trait can slip over into the less attractive personal put-downs that some posters have noted.
If any of you visit Australia you'll find that we tend to share much of the English sense of humour, including the propensity for "pisstakes", although maybe we're less likely to stray into that put-down territory. The same goes (I think) for New Zealanders, who can be master deadpan artists.
Myself, I can appreciate the good material from both the UK and US. I note though that the English superiority in TV comedy isn't absolute - not surprisingly, much of their output is mediocre, and isn't reflected in the cinema, where Hollywood has always reigned supreme.
I suspect that American TV comedy tends to reflect the fact that Americans in general are polite people who seek to limit friction in social settings. The English have no qualms about upping the friction level, just to see what happens, or in the old American vernacular to "get a rise" out of someone. The best English TV comedy has a dark edge to it - Fawlty made you cringe almost as often as laugh. In social settings this trait can slip over into the less attractive personal put-downs that some posters have noted.
If any of you visit Australia you'll find that we tend to share much of the English sense of humour, including the propensity for "pisstakes", although maybe we're less likely to stray into that put-down territory. The same goes (I think) for New Zealanders, who can be master deadpan artists.
Myself, I can appreciate the good material from both the UK and US. I note though that the English superiority in TV comedy isn't absolute - not surprisingly, much of their output is mediocre, and isn't reflected in the cinema, where Hollywood has always reigned supreme.
Aug 11th, 2004, 01:34 PM
#33
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"I note though that the English superiority in "TV comedy isn't absolute - not surprisingly, much of their output is mediocre, and isn't reflected in the cinema, where Hollywood has always reigned supreme."
My dear, just because something is popular, it doesn't mean that it's of an high standard. British comedy films, are usually more carryon than satire. Satire rarely lends itself to a film format - it relies on topical issues, topical issues in a film is very hard to keep current.
My dear, just because something is popular, it doesn't mean that it's of an high standard. British comedy films, are usually more carryon than satire. Satire rarely lends itself to a film format - it relies on topical issues, topical issues in a film is very hard to keep current.
Aug 11th, 2004, 01:49 PM
#36
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m2k, you're right there. however, the "humour" in british adverts is the opposite of british humour. it goes out of its way to be funny but it's not, whereas british humour doesn't look like its trying to hard to be funny....just is.
Aug 11th, 2004, 01:50 PM
#37
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BTilke - when I said "some nation" I meant some nation, not a particular nation as you seem to have assumed.
I still know of no examples of Brit humour being at someone else's expense, but I do know of cases where "some nations" (including some Brits) have misinterpreted their jokes that way.
Maybe I could have said "some people" but there are racial trends, as this thread shows.
An example. At a large gathering of 20 people last week, a joke was cracked. It was an impromptu joke based on clever wordplay relating to the general conversation. 17 people laughed - I mean really laughed, no polite feigning of laughter, belly-wobbling guffaws, squeals of delight, that sort of thing. The 17 were mainly Australians, but included 4 English, 2 Irish, an American and a Kiwi. of the 3 who didn't laugh, 2 (both Aussies) thought it was "awful" - in other words demonstrating my point that some people see malice or putdown where none was intended - and 1 (a Scot, but obviously not a Billy Connelly type!) - said "but that sounds like..." and immediately made the connection to the wordplay behind the joke! In other words, she "got" it but didn't realise that was what was intended!
We are all different, but for me one of the aspects of Brit humour that sets them apart is their appreciation of eccentricity. Kiwis (being quite Brit-like themselves) are the only other people I know who appreciate this. Aussies are scared to death of it. I don't know about others?
I still know of no examples of Brit humour being at someone else's expense, but I do know of cases where "some nations" (including some Brits) have misinterpreted their jokes that way.
Maybe I could have said "some people" but there are racial trends, as this thread shows.
An example. At a large gathering of 20 people last week, a joke was cracked. It was an impromptu joke based on clever wordplay relating to the general conversation. 17 people laughed - I mean really laughed, no polite feigning of laughter, belly-wobbling guffaws, squeals of delight, that sort of thing. The 17 were mainly Australians, but included 4 English, 2 Irish, an American and a Kiwi. of the 3 who didn't laugh, 2 (both Aussies) thought it was "awful" - in other words demonstrating my point that some people see malice or putdown where none was intended - and 1 (a Scot, but obviously not a Billy Connelly type!) - said "but that sounds like..." and immediately made the connection to the wordplay behind the joke! In other words, she "got" it but didn't realise that was what was intended!
We are all different, but for me one of the aspects of Brit humour that sets them apart is their appreciation of eccentricity. Kiwis (being quite Brit-like themselves) are the only other people I know who appreciate this. Aussies are scared to death of it. I don't know about others?
Aug 11th, 2004, 04:22 PM
#38
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To revert to put-down humour, twoflower's story recalls the remark (Dr Johnson? - a great man in many ways, but not a bundle of fun) about the difficulty of inserting a joke into a Scotsman's imagination (and I'm part Scottish, so this stops right here, OK?)
One thing I do notice is that our most successful sitcoms are based around the tragi-comedy of people whose imagination and ambition simply don't allow them to recognise that they are trapped in their own limitations - Steptoe, Fawlty, Fools and Horses, Hyacinth, David Brent - need I go on? There's an element of cruelty (look at the comic people trying to get above themselves), but also a pathos: that's what makes some of them so painful, because we recognise ourselves. To be really pseudy, that goes back at least as far as Shakespeare - remember Malvolio?
But I suspect the humour that comes from accepting failure, and the reasons - and even the compensations - for it, sits ill with the American can-do mentality. But it fits part, at least, of the Australian experience, maybe?
One thing I do notice is that our most successful sitcoms are based around the tragi-comedy of people whose imagination and ambition simply don't allow them to recognise that they are trapped in their own limitations - Steptoe, Fawlty, Fools and Horses, Hyacinth, David Brent - need I go on? There's an element of cruelty (look at the comic people trying to get above themselves), but also a pathos: that's what makes some of them so painful, because we recognise ourselves. To be really pseudy, that goes back at least as far as Shakespeare - remember Malvolio?
But I suspect the humour that comes from accepting failure, and the reasons - and even the compensations - for it, sits ill with the American can-do mentality. But it fits part, at least, of the Australian experience, maybe?
Aug 11th, 2004, 05:36 PM
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Mark,
I would email you if I knew your address - but I don't, so I'll post here.
I am sure this is NOT how you wanted or expected this thread to go. I am sorry...I still think your original post was great and I still think you should submit it to londonlantern so others can enjoy it too.
I would email you if I knew your address - but I don't, so I'll post here.
I am sure this is NOT how you wanted or expected this thread to go. I am sorry...I still think your original post was great and I still think you should submit it to londonlantern so others can enjoy it too.
