Myer

I've travelled by train in France, Switzerland and Italy and am aware of the difference between 1st and 2nd class. The more crowded not quite a clean or comfortable 2nd class as opposed to first class. <BR>Can anybody compare trains in Spain - Club, Preferant, Tourist, etc? <BR>Also, other than speed, can anybody compare the AVE, Talgo2000, Talgo Triana and Intercity?

Bobby Ghosh

Myer, <BR>So you decided to take the train in the end. Good choice. My wife and I have traveled on the AVE from Madrid to Sevilla, second-class (or tourist class; I think they're the same) on an overnighter between Granada and Barcelona and first class on another overnighter between Barcelona and Madrid. I'll not get into the fare structure because our trip was more than 18 months ago, and the fares have no doubt changed since then. In any case, you'll find those details in the RENFE website. <BR>Our experience was as follows: <BR>* The AVE is quick, smooth and highly reliable (as I recall, they promise to return your fare if the train's more than 5 min late). Seats are comfortable, wide and there's plenty of legroom. It's eminently worth the premium you pay over the Talgo between Madrid and Sevilla. Make sure to go to the coffee coach at some point: there's nothing like watching the Andalusian countryside go by as you sip a cappuccino. You'll appreciate the hour and a half you save (as compared with the fastest Talgo). <BR>*The overnighters -- Estrellas, I think they're called -- are very good. In second class, bunks are divided into coupes of six. They are small, but clean and well maintained. The air-con is tolerable. <BR>*First-class coupes are for two or four bunks (your choice). These are obviously roomier. I'm six-foot-one, and I didn't have any trouble stretching out on the bunk. There's a wash basin and mirror in each coupe. Plus, there's a butler-like person who bring you linen and food. <BR>On the whole, we found the trains in Spain better than those in Italy. I can't speak for France or Switzerland, because I haven't been to either. <BR>Finally, we found the Lonely Planet guide right on the button with its comments/advice on the train system -- on on Spain in general. You might consider buying it. <BR>Cheers, <BR>Bobby

Bobby Again

What a faux pas -- plugging Lonely Planet on a Fodor's forum! Let me hasten to add that Fodor's guides are also top-drawer. It's just that I haven't yet been able to get a hold of the Spain volume (I did use the Italy volume and found it superior to the Lonely Planet). <BR>Cheers, <BR>Bobby

Maribel

Myer, <BR>As Bobby has explained, you need not buy a first-class ("preferente") or club class ticket for the Madrid-Seville AVE; "turista" is quite comfortable. The additional cost for "preferente" simply includes a meal served at your seat and access to a special departure lounge at Atocha and Santa Justa stations. You will enjoy your short 2 1/2 hr. ride in "turista" just as much. <BR> <BR>For the Talgo 200 high speed that takes you from Madrid to Malaga/Fuengirola/Torremolinos or from Madrid to Cadiz/Huelva in under 5 hours, I would also buy a "turista" class ticket, as you'll have the same ride as on the AVE, as both Talgo 200's are AVE trains (using the same high speed tracks up to Seville). But you will be paying more for your ticket if travelling at a peak ("llano") rather than off-peak ("valle") time. <BR> <BR>The Intercity trains are similar in comfort to the regular Talgos, although an Intercity run takes a bit longer. For example, the Barcelona/Madrid trip on the Intercity takes 1 hr. longer but costs 1,200 pts. less. (We always take the Talgo if for some reason we can't or don't want to take the Air Europa shuttle). <BR> <BR>You can find schedules and pricing and take a virtual tour of the AVE at www.renfe.es. And incidentally, I agree with Bobby regarding the superior comfort level of most Spanish trains to those in Italy. And I am also a believer in keeping a copy of Lonely Planet (Spain and Andalucia) on hand for travel planning, as both guides give very detailed information regarding bus/train travel, ferries, festivals, opening/closing hours of major sites, advanced ticket purchasing options, web sites, etcetera, that are indispensable for the very independent traveller. I find the "Getting There and Away" and "Facts for the Visitor" sections extremely valuable when doing my travel planning particularly for the less visited areas of Spain, such as the <BR>underrated Catalonian Pyrennes or other areas of the beautiful "Green Spain" of the North which I'm betting you will want to see on your next visit. <BR> <BR>Have a great trip!

Myer

I'm not 100% I've decided to take the train instead of driving but one tends to repeat unless one is sorry with the choice. <BR>Thanks for the help. If I can help with any of my experiences...Paris, Switzerland, parts of Italy.