This topic is more contentious than the whole Stolen Presidency thing, but I notice that after last year's "controversy" regarding Ed and his twenj site we saw him slow down on the self-promotion. But he's at it again and I'd just like to ask him to stop. Contribute to the forum but don't use every opportunity to point people to your web site. It's tacky.

Deja, thanks so much for reminding me that I haven't publicly thanked Ed enough for all the help and advice he offered, both on this forum and in private e-mails, prior to my trip to Rome last month. His site was an *enormous* help in planning my trip, and without his endorsement and detailed information about the Scavi tour of the Vatican Necropolis, I probably wouldn't have gone on a tour that turned out to be the highlight of my visit. And Ed's Web site at www.twenj.com was one of the most useful resources available as I planned my trip, behind only "Time Out Rome" and Sandra Gustafson's "Cheap Eats in Italy." <BR>

oops, I forgot that Ed is in the club and so whatever he wants to do it fine with you rule makers. Forgive me.

I'm a rule maker? Woo hoo! :: boing boing :: Gosh, how exciting. I had no idea? Was there an election while I was gone? Do we get limos and stuff?

The David from kids to London book or whatever it is said in a post today I have a new book families to London or something like that, so start attacking everyone DejaVu not just pick on Ed.

Do I even want to know what this is about?

No, Bob, you don't.

DejaVu: Perhaps you could find me a Rome website on the internet that is as informative as Ed's. I haven't found one yet in 4yrs. I have a long list of Italy websites I keep for myself to plan my trips that I have also e-mailed to others and under Rome is "...[Rome web sites] This 1st site is the BEST http://twenj.com/rome/". I don't know Ed and AFAIK we have never e-mailed each other. But between this Forum and rec.travel.europe where he also posts, how many thousands of people do you think benefit from his website each year? Plus how many others like me pass on his website either in posts or e-mails just to help someone. Honestly I really don't understand the negative posts towards Ed and his website on this forum. Regards, Walter <BR> <BR>

Well put, Walter. I voted for Ed&Julie the other time around and I shall do so again. I also think it was a cheap shot against Gina.

I was going to write my usual defense of Ed & Julie, who IMHO need no defense, but the following occurred to me. Is it *possible* that DejaVu is from one of the genuinely commercial sites about which we *have* complained? So I decided not to waste my arguments.

Nope, don't have a site myself. I know how to work a search engine, though, and use it whenever I need answers to questions. I never said that Ed's site wasn't a comprehensive web page. It is. But I think it's tacky to push your product every time you post an answer to a question. And Shrimp, you raise an interesting point. You folks DO rally against certain web site promotion but always give Ed a pass. I don't understand it. You all make jokes about the complaints that folks have regarding the clubby insider nature of Fodors, which IMHO keeps many people away from the site. But your double standards smack of this clubbiness. This is MY site too. I can ask for users to abide by the rules. And I will continue to do so.

I think most people object to those who post thinly-veiled ads for commercial sites or try to sell their own products here. And that's what the "rules" you cite prohibit. Ed's site is not commercial. I'm sorry, the fact that in a couple small places of an *exhaustive* site he points people to where you can buy a book or two on Amazon, from which he might make a couple of bucks a year total, hardly makes twenj.com commercial. <BR> <BR>It clearly is an enormous labor of love and a ton of hard work. Frankly, it's like having a guidebook to Rome on the Web for free. How is that possibly objectionable? It's hardly in the same category trying to sell someone your book, or recruit them as a travel agency client. <BR> <BR>Oh well--S. Fowler is probably right in that Deja, despite protests to the contrary, has an agenda of his/her/its own and the reality of how helpful Ed & Julie's information is will not be allowed to intrude on the crusade. Interesting hobby, but I prefer travel.

I looked up the Ed/Julie site. It's OK but nothing to rave about. A harmless mildly constructive avocation for retired people.

You like travel Gina? Let me tell you where you can go. RULES ARE RULES. What part of that don't you understand?

DV -- please take some of my chocolate. please?

Deja, I believe the Fodor's rules you love so well also mention something about civility. Telling other posters "where they can go" seems not to fall within that category. Perhaps you only love rules when you're accusing others of violating them? <BR> <BR>Okay, in the spirit of another thread in which we take pledges not to let the trolls tempt us, I'm now officially done with Deja and his/her/its ilk.

Shrimp, <BR> <BR>You are as bad as anybody about throwing down the gauntlet. I make what I think is a justifiable remark and you and all the other regulars rush to the defense of one of the insiders. I used to visit this site daily but got so tired of the haggis-in-a-tube, "question for Elvira", etc. crap that I just decided to let you guys play house and I'd mosey on. But, as I mentioned before, you guys don't own this board. It is a public site. So I have a right to feel slighted by your double standards, etc. Leave it to someone who has spent their life in a university setting, like you have, to waggle your way into a fight and then say, "no wait, settle down. you are just overreacting."

Referring to me as an IT is very civil Gina. Why don't you go back to boring us all with your overwrought Italian eating adventures. At least that was something that kept you busy.

DV -- let me know when you are through trashing us. Your central theme is your concern for the "double standards" you claim to see on this board. I repeat, again, there are no double standards. What there is is a difficulty on your part recognizing anything other than "black & white" distinctions. IMHO [and *only* imho]that is as problematic as whatever you are acusing us of. I will now go eat some chocolate.

But in your mind Black and White is only a problem when it doesn't aid your specific cause. People who say they have the ability to see the gray areas are people looking for the easy way out of a corner that they've painted themselves into.