Here is my kids' teacher's version of "What not to Wear in Italy"
Feb 11th, 2008, 02:59 AM
#61
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I always watch these clothing debates with interest.
What it comes down to is appropriate dress and behaviour.
They should aim to dress neatly and to avoid looking indecent or ridiculous or both.
If people glance at them and register "American teenagers", that's fine.
If they stare at them or remove their spectacles, clean them and have another stare, that's a problem.
Whatever they are wearing, the teacher should remind them not to take up the whole pavement and to remember their manners.
The attendants in the Vatican will be interested to see that they are appropriately dressed, but they will be far more concerned if they are galloping around talking loudly to their friends.
What it comes down to is appropriate dress and behaviour.
They should aim to dress neatly and to avoid looking indecent or ridiculous or both.
If people glance at them and register "American teenagers", that's fine.
If they stare at them or remove their spectacles, clean them and have another stare, that's a problem.
Whatever they are wearing, the teacher should remind them not to take up the whole pavement and to remember their manners.
The attendants in the Vatican will be interested to see that they are appropriately dressed, but they will be far more concerned if they are galloping around talking loudly to their friends.
Feb 11th, 2008, 03:31 AM
#62
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Cowboy1968 wrote: "This person needs no other people to ridicule him, his "guidelines" do that nicely for him."
I disagree. You should not ridicule somebody for lack of knowledge. The appropriate response is to enlighten him (in the most tactful way you can manage).
Come to think of it, I don't like the idea of ridiculing a person. It's okay to ridicule an idea or a particular behaviour, but it's a bad idea to take it beyond that to the person. I am sure that everybody here has said and done stupid things that can be cause for laughter. I am equally sure that none of us would like to be regarded as idiots because of them.
I disagree. You should not ridicule somebody for lack of knowledge. The appropriate response is to enlighten him (in the most tactful way you can manage).
Come to think of it, I don't like the idea of ridiculing a person. It's okay to ridicule an idea or a particular behaviour, but it's a bad idea to take it beyond that to the person. I am sure that everybody here has said and done stupid things that can be cause for laughter. I am equally sure that none of us would like to be regarded as idiots because of them.
Feb 11th, 2008, 03:44 AM
#63
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I don't know if someone who has been traveling with kids to Europe <b>every four years</b>, i.e. had enough opportunities to gather information just by walking around with his eyes open, still needs "enlightment" on what kids wear these days.
With all due respect for that teacher's achievements and work, but if I was a parent whose kids were to go to Italy with that person, I would expect that experienced teacher to enlight me, and not vice versa.
With all due respect for that teacher's achievements and work, but if I was a parent whose kids were to go to Italy with that person, I would expect that experienced teacher to enlight me, and not vice versa.
Feb 11th, 2008, 04:33 AM
#64
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Believe me, I'm not a troll. One thing is, the teacher is a guy...which means, he is already bringing slacks and shoes to wear with slacks. He probably doesn't even realize that it's hard for the girls to pack light (a good piece of advice he has given) when adding a below the knee dress or skirt and shoes to wear with same. There will be a guide with the group from the tour company-the teacher is not in charge of explaining the sights to the kids. We aren't making a big deal about this. I just thought my fellow Fodorites would be interested in his advice, since there are so many "what to wear" threads on this board.
Feb 11th, 2008, 09:38 AM
#67
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The choir director has emailed me back about the passport issue. He says that the students are required to carry their passports with them at all times (and that is why the chaperones cannot hold them.)
I always keep our passports in the hotel safe.Where is he getting this requirement? Is it Italian law, or misinformation?
I always keep our passports in the hotel safe.Where is he getting this requirement? Is it Italian law, or misinformation?
Feb 11th, 2008, 10:06 AM
#68
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<<He says that the students are required to carry their passports with them at all times . . . Where is he getting this requirement? Is it Italian law, or misinformation?>>
Giving him the benefit of the doubt, this may be his interpretation of the Italian law to carry ID at all times.
Giving him the benefit of the doubt, this may be his interpretation of the Italian law to carry ID at all times.
Feb 11th, 2008, 10:49 AM
#69
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Up until a couple of years ago, my DH and I were teaching in Italy at a residential high school where teens came for a year (or two) at a time from all over the world, but mostly the US and Canada. It was school policy to take and retain the student's passports IMMEDIATELY upon arrival and not return them until the day they were due to leave Italy. I love teens, but experience suggests this is a much wiser policy.
To missypie: I know your offspring would never drink against school policy, but as the laws and the culture with regard to consumption of alcohol are very different in Italy, it is not a bad idea to spell out your expectations on this and the other Biggies: drugs, sex, spending money and how often you expect to hear from them.
I hate to sound jaded, but what the little charmers are wearing will be the least of this teacher's concerns.
To missypie: I know your offspring would never drink against school policy, but as the laws and the culture with regard to consumption of alcohol are very different in Italy, it is not a bad idea to spell out your expectations on this and the other Biggies: drugs, sex, spending money and how often you expect to hear from them.
I hate to sound jaded, but what the little charmers are wearing will be the least of this teacher's concerns.
Feb 11th, 2008, 11:06 AM
#70
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The teacher has very strict rules for all trips. The student is either in his or her own room, or out of the hotel with the group. The kids can't even visit the rooms of kids of the same gender, leave the room to get a coke, etc.
I'm not worried about my freshman daughter losing her passport. I'm very worried about my junior son...he has some neurological issues and if anyone on the trip is going to lose his passport, it will be him. I'd have his sister carry his, but they will be on different flights and different busses. The teacher would probably make an exception and have an adult carry my son's passport, but it would embarrass him to death if his was the only passport held.
I'm not worried about my freshman daughter losing her passport. I'm very worried about my junior son...he has some neurological issues and if anyone on the trip is going to lose his passport, it will be him. I'd have his sister carry his, but they will be on different flights and different busses. The teacher would probably make an exception and have an adult carry my son's passport, but it would embarrass him to death if his was the only passport held.
Feb 11th, 2008, 11:14 AM
#71
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It could be worse -- when my daughter went on a choir trip to England and Switzerland the girls all had to wear matching outfits when traveling that were incredibly tacky -- medium blue pants skirts (worst of both worlds in terms of comfort and convenience) and white blouses with peter pan collars, all of which had to be specially made for them since it's hard to buy things that are that awful. Oh, and white tennis shoes with white crew socks. After I asked the choir director to reconsider, I was told that my daughter could always stay home if I didn't like the wardrobe requirements.
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Feb 11th, 2008, 11:18 AM
#72
Are they at least making suggestions on HOW to safely carry a passport? Asking for each kid to have a money belt or something. Are they keeping a copy of each kids passport?
Who cares is they are wearing sneakers, if half the kids lose their passports along the way!
Who cares is they are wearing sneakers, if half the kids lose their passports along the way!
Feb 11th, 2008, 11:55 AM
#73
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We are to make FIVE copies of their passports-I can't remember where all they are to put them.
I guess I'm going to make my son put his passport in a money belt around his waist.
The director suggested putting documents in a lanyard around the neck...now if THAT doesn't scream tourist, what does?
I guess I'm going to make my son put his passport in a money belt around his waist.
The director suggested putting documents in a lanyard around the neck...now if THAT doesn't scream tourist, what does?
Feb 11th, 2008, 12:03 PM
#74
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Missypie: if I didn't know you have travelled/posted here often before, I'd swear this was a troll...are you not getting just a teensy bit concerned at this teacher/leader's evident lack of experience or common sense?...what he is suggesting breaks all the standard rules for overseeing trips with teens.Multiple copies of passports just invite identity theft when left in garbage cans all over Italy-these are supposed to be well guarded documents. Lanyards round their necks with passports in them? This is odd stuff!
Feb 11th, 2008, 12:32 PM
#76
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In case anyone cares, here's a bit of an explanation: Every year, the choir program contracts with the same tour company (one that specializes in sending groups of students all over the place to sing.) I assume that they do a good job with the hotels, meals, etc, since the director has been using the company for years.
However, the tour company puts all of the information-giving-to-the-parents-and-students on the choir director's shoulders instead of handling it themselves. So the guy giving out all this (mis)information is a high school choir director-not a travel expert.
True story: Two years ago, the choir went to Orlando. About a week before the trip, the school sent home an information sheet prepared by the tour company with the hotel contact info, etc. At the top of the page was the name of the contact person at the tour company and his phone number. I had a question about the hotel, so I called the tour company employee. He SNAPPED at me, "Who gave you this number?!" I told him it was on the info sheet he had sent to the school for distribution. He said that I should NEVER contact him and to direct ALL of my questions to the choir director. He even called the choir director to complain about me calling him to ask for information!
Isn't that nuts? I was supposed to ask the choir director questions about a hotel he's never visited, instead of directing the question to the tour company employee who had selected the hotel.
ANYWAY, the tour company must have some redeeming qualities if the choir continues to use them. I offer this long story by way of explaining why we're getting info from someone who is not very knowledgable.
However, the tour company puts all of the information-giving-to-the-parents-and-students on the choir director's shoulders instead of handling it themselves. So the guy giving out all this (mis)information is a high school choir director-not a travel expert.
True story: Two years ago, the choir went to Orlando. About a week before the trip, the school sent home an information sheet prepared by the tour company with the hotel contact info, etc. At the top of the page was the name of the contact person at the tour company and his phone number. I had a question about the hotel, so I called the tour company employee. He SNAPPED at me, "Who gave you this number?!" I told him it was on the info sheet he had sent to the school for distribution. He said that I should NEVER contact him and to direct ALL of my questions to the choir director. He even called the choir director to complain about me calling him to ask for information!
Isn't that nuts? I was supposed to ask the choir director questions about a hotel he's never visited, instead of directing the question to the tour company employee who had selected the hotel.
ANYWAY, the tour company must have some redeeming qualities if the choir continues to use them. I offer this long story by way of explaining why we're getting info from someone who is not very knowledgable.
Feb 11th, 2008, 12:47 PM
#77
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Wow.. quite an amazing arrangement that tour operator has with your school and teachers.
Yet, as you said, the school must be content with the services of that company, though I'd label their behaviour at least as "strange".
I wouldn't want to be that teacher getting grilled by parents with questions for which I only have 2nd hand information or answers, and that also incorrect...
Yet, as you said, the school must be content with the services of that company, though I'd label their behaviour at least as "strange".
I wouldn't want to be that teacher getting grilled by parents with questions for which I only have 2nd hand information or answers, and that also incorrect...
Feb 11th, 2008, 01:23 PM
#78
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Hi missypie, regarding the passport question, I would phone the closest Italian Consulate or the Italian Embassy in DC and ask them if your son (or any of the other students) need to have the original passport on their person while in Italy or if a photocopy of the passport would be sufficient (if one of the adults with the group takes responsibility for the students original passports).
Feb 11th, 2008, 01:58 PM
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Missypie, May I ask something. It sounds like the kids will NEVER be alone, never without an adult chaperone, except when in their room, correct?/
Is so the adult should be required to carry the passports NOT the kids.
I think this trip sounds plain silly, seems like blind leading the blind, and I would never send my kids on a trip where the tour leader talked to me the way the" professional" tour leader talked to YOU. I demand alot more respect when I am merely checking on my children who I am placing under stangers care and direction and sending to a foriegn country.
Is so the adult should be required to carry the passports NOT the kids.
I think this trip sounds plain silly, seems like blind leading the blind, and I would never send my kids on a trip where the tour leader talked to me the way the" professional" tour leader talked to YOU. I demand alot more respect when I am merely checking on my children who I am placing under stangers care and direction and sending to a foriegn country.
Feb 11th, 2008, 08:17 PM
#80
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I can't believe that the kids are expected to hold onto their passports!
My kids do LOTS of out-of-country trips (DS#2 is heading to Beijing in a few weeks) and the teachers ALWAYS keep control of the passports.
In airports, the teachers check-in all the kids personally and only hand them the passports to go thru security (or board, or where ever it's needed). Then the teacher immediately collects them again and keeps them throughout the trip. The passports are only returned to the kids when they return here.
On my older son's trip to Tanzania last fall, the teachers made the "mistake" of given the kids their passports at the beginning of the return trip home and one passport was lost. The student and a teacher ended up with an unexpected 24+ hours in Ethiopia making endless phone calls to the British Embassy and arranging visa support to re-enter the country at this end. it was a nightmare!
My kids do LOTS of out-of-country trips (DS#2 is heading to Beijing in a few weeks) and the teachers ALWAYS keep control of the passports.
In airports, the teachers check-in all the kids personally and only hand them the passports to go thru security (or board, or where ever it's needed). Then the teacher immediately collects them again and keeps them throughout the trip. The passports are only returned to the kids when they return here.
On my older son's trip to Tanzania last fall, the teachers made the "mistake" of given the kids their passports at the beginning of the return trip home and one passport was lost. The student and a teacher ended up with an unexpected 24+ hours in Ethiopia making endless phone calls to the British Embassy and arranging visa support to re-enter the country at this end. it was a nightmare!
