If the traveller who uses an atlas as a first source of geographical info forgets to correct for changes in scale between maps, or to allow for the Mercator projection system of mapping used by many atlases (in which the size of countries is distorted as one progresses toward the poles) he or she can easily come away with a misconception of the true size of the country in question.

So herewith (hear, hear!) is a relational system for considering the areas of various overseas countries.

(figures given are rounded to the nearest approxmiate in thousands of square miles)

United Kingdom: total 90
--- Wales 8 approx 1/3 area of Nova Scotia (21);
--- Scotland 30 approx the area of New Brunswick, 28;
--- Northern Ireland 5 (approx 2.5 times the area of Prince Edward Island, 2)
--- England 50 (approx the area of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick combined)

Italy: 113 about 1/3 the area of British Columbia, 366)

France: 210, about the area of either Manitoba 250, or Alberta, 255

Germany: 135, about the area of Newfoundland, 157

Obviously this won't help much if the comparison North American areas are as foreign to the reader in terms of travel as the European ones listed. So an invitation is extended to Fodorites to post below a similar list of their own, but using equivalents of their own home turf.

Even if compared to actually U.S. geographical locations--at least for those residing in the U.S.--the comparison may be misleading. At least out west we tend to drive much farther than in Europe. I remember a Belgian graduate school roommate who went back to Brussels for a visit and shocked his acquaintances because he decided to go to a Liège for a day. In Michigan I used to drive 120 miles round-trip to go to the theater or a concert or even a good foreign movie. I doubt that Europeans would drive that distance for such activities--not that they would have to anyway. In Houston a local took us to a fish food place in Sabine Pass, which is a good 150 miles round trip. I doubt that my friends in France would go 640 km. round-trip for two days of skiing, which I do regularly (SF to the Sierra) along with many other skiers. It might be wiser to consider hours of travel when driving, although that assumes flexibility and possibly no reservations at the end of the day.

Bill Bryson is very good on this - he says that Americans will drive further for a taco than Europeans will to go on holiday.

Same in Australia, Michael. I live in Canberra, 300 km (185 miles) from Sydney, and it's not at all unusual for locals here to do the round trip in a day to catch a show or whatever. It's "just up the road", after all.

and what's the point?

Aye, there's the rub, lobo_mau, we need more than one point...of reference anyway.

Michael, hours of driving is more accurate, and a better idea to be sure. Of course, there are many possible permutations and combinations of comparative distances (e.g., Melbourne-Sydney is to Paris-??? or, New York - Washington is to Paris - ??? )

Hi all,

From www.viamichelin.com

LA, CA to Portland, OR 964 mi
Berlin, Ge to Bucharest, Ro 1036

LA, CA to NYC 2780 mi
Lisbon, Portugal to Moscow, Ru 2866

Portland, ME to Miami, FL 1600 mi
Stockholm, Sweden to Rome, It 1557

Bill Bryson is very good on this - he says that British have to go on holiday
outside the country just to get a decent meal.

Madrid - Seville 531 km (~300 mi), 6.5 hrs
Vienna, Austria - Zurich, Switzerland 463 mi (~750 km) 6.75 hrs

Toronto - Montreal 338 mi (~500 km) 6 hrs

Portland, Maine - NYC 318 mi (~500 km) 5.5 hrs

"he says that British have to go on holiday outside the country just to get a decent meal."

He make a very good point!

Except of course, the BB's statement is simply untrue. An outdated generalization that deserves a quick, unceremonious burial.

On the popular BBC TV spy show Spooks, one of the British agents was enraged after reading a secret CIA report that dismissed the country as "slightly smaller than Oregon."

Bill Bryson lived in Northern England for many happy years. That doesn't sound like a man who's pining for peanut butter and jam sandwiches to me. (and he doesn't look like a bloke who's missed a lot of lunches!)

Isn't part of the reason that we think in quite small distances here, is that small distances are all you need to go to get to somewhere noticably different - even within the same country. In Engalnd one could be in Devon, Cornwall and the Cotswolds within quite short periods - and they area all noticably different from each other.

The same applies on the continent - perhaps even more so as you would cross national boundaries.

So while we may be "slightly smaller than Oregon" I suspect that we are rather more diverse!

It must be all that Christmas turkey/pudding that has people relentlessly thinking about food on a thread that was meant to address misperceptions about travel time! But in a sense, both travel schedules and holiday dinners touch on the issue of indigestion....

Btilke, since I don't know the area of Oregon (hint, hint) I've no way of knowing if the comparison of England's size to that of Oregon is apt. Whether it is seen as dismissive, though, surely must depend on context - I've never seen the show mentioned, but I'm assuming it's a comedy? If so, the writers/actors probably played that line more to work a laugh at the CIA's expense, than at England's. Especially if they took pains to let the audience believe that relative geographical area was the ONLY thing the CIA bothered or thought to research about a given country.

David - here in the US you have to go pretty darn far to escape Bed Bath and Beyond and the like... (Walmart, etc.) we have endless supplies of land we've filled with shopping plazas (not even malls, so much anymore... plazas).

No, Sue, your assumption is wrong. Spooks is definitely not a comedy.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/spooks/

And Sue, to answer your hints, go to:
http://www.netstate.com/states/alma/or_alma.htm

Btilke, thanks for the link. And for anyone interested in this series, a summary can be found on www.bbc.co.uk/drama/spooks/

I still say, though, that it depends on context whether the comment is dismissive. Or perhaps on the assumption that bigger must be better, which, given that I am all of 5' 1" or so, I dispute!

Would it have been less annoying to the Spooks series characters had the CIA described England as roughly 9 times the size of Hawaii?

>On the popular BBC TV spy show Spooks, one of the British agents was enraged after reading a secret CIA report that dismissed the country as "slightly smaller than Oregon."<

Oregon - 98,000 sq mi
UK - 89,000 sq mi

speaking of Mercator - the book "Mercator, The Man who Mapped the Planet" was an interesting read.

I remember the guide I hired in Prague was going to London the next day - in a day no less. I mentioned that it takes 7 hours just to drive from NYC to Niagara Falls and 3 days through the state of Texas. It's a shame the US hasn't developed high speed trains between nearby cities - though I still prefer airplanes when going from NYC to LA, and back.

>It's a shame the US hasn't developed high speed trains between nearby cities ..<

We used to have an excellent passenger railroad system.

Blame the loss on Eisenhower and the National Defense Highway Act.