I'm a first timer to Fodors. After many years of travel through the U.S., courtesy of corporate relocations and the opportunity to explore parts of the country, I'm now planning a trip to Europe for the first time with my wife and son. I've used Fodor's guides extensively in the past when I toured the US. A Georgian friend of mine suggested I check this forum for inforamtion. He told me I'd find a wealth of information and expert knowledge and advice. Well, I don't know. I'm not too sure he knew what he was talking about. I was put off by one of the first titles I found - New to this forum - don't dare post I found two titles - new to this forum - look here first - but couldn't find useful informaltion in either one. I checked another - europe - what do I need to bring - and found a recommendation for a barbeque and a pinata. Another posting abut driving permits said a signed note from mother would be sufficient. I notice a lot of animosity and back biting and sarcasm in some of the comments. I didn't bother doing any subject searches because I don't think I'm going to find much of value. I had a lot of questions at first. I only have one now. Does anyone know of a website that provides meaningful information about travel to Europe? <BR>Jeff G

This one. <BR>Do use the search function. There is lots of good information here. <BR>We're just having one of our *snitty* periods. <BR>

Jeff, <BR>Sally, who's not related, is right. Despite your initial perceptions Fodors is the best website for European travel advice and counsel, bar none. There are regular contributors here with a wealth of valuable knowledge. What you've perceived now is an interesting phenomenon. Last year about this time there was a similar period filled with vitriol and vituperation. Most was prompted by a string dealing with overweight, slobbily dressed American tourists. I puzzled over the phenomenon then and puzzle over it now. I think many long time contributors, who readily admit an "addiction" to Fodors get frustrated seeing many of the same questions repeated endlessly for months on end. I think there's a frustration of another kind when a questioner states he's going to Europe and asks what he should see, where he should stay. People with valuable answers have no clue as to the questioner's budget constraints, age, interests, travelling companions and as a result feel frustrated in their inability to share information that might prove meaningful. I think, too, a prime frustration about this time of the year comes about thusly. We're tied to a desk or stuck in a cubicle, on an assembly line or in a classroom itching to travel or at least devote time to travel planning and can't. I suppose we're like a bunch of migrating geese unable to fly. There may be more than a bit of envy in seeing queries from people on the verge of traveling to places we've always wanted to experience or to places that have left us with pleasurable memories. That latter frustration disappears when a challenging query finally comes along. It's relieved, too, when we enjoy the vicarious pleasure of someone who returns from a wonderful trip and shares his experiences with us. Scroll down to Bob the Navigator's comments about his recent adventure and the responses it elicited. There you'll find the real Fodor's forum. <BR> <BR>In the meantime, sketch out your itinerary, do a search by country, city or key word and garner a wealth of knowledge. Come back to us then with your questions and concerns. <BR>

If you do find a better one, please let us know. However, if you read topics of interest to you or do a search, you'll find that there's an overwhelming amount of "meaningful information". The occasional less than meaningful stuff is in small proportion to the vast array of useful tips and recommendations provided by contributors, many of whom are well-seasoned travelers. Like your friend advised, if you make the effort, you will discover a wealth of information and expert knowledge and advice. I've just found this forum myself. I can understand completely why many of the regulars become frustrated from time to time with nebulous inquiries in particular. Not to mention inquiries for which there are dozens of thoughtful responses if one looks through the messages or does a search (such as hotels and restaurants in Paris). Obviously, if you can't be bothered, you won't find anything of value.

Ask anyway. There really are a lot of helpful people here. You can also check out: <BR>http://www.iol.ie/~discover/europe3.htm <BR>

I like www.eurotrip.com <BR>Even if you're not on a budget, you'll still find it helpful.

Thank you for your helpful and insightful comments. <BR> <BR>Would the rest of you (you know who I mean) please read, mark and inwardly digest. <BR> <BR>And stop sending those offensive diatribes to the top

Jeff, I just back from my first trip to Europe for 2 weeks which was great! We did the trip independently and I planned the trip entirely on my own. I tried travel agents first and they were useless unless we wanted to do a tour - no thanks. Once I discovered this forum, my plans took off! I learned of numerous websites for getting specific area information like: www.interlakentourism.ch, for Interlaken, Switzerland or www.rothenburg.de, for Rothenburg, Germany, etc. My list goes on and on - I have about 30! These great websites include sightseeing info, as well as, accomodations including rates and pictures. I made all my lodging reservations online at these various websites, some of which gave good discounts for internet bookings. <BR>But, my starting point for attaining all these websites was this forum. This forum was by far my best resource! I used to spend hours reading posts and making my own posts and got great info! You need to give your efforts on the forum more time. And, if you have specific questions, or even general ones, ask them. I always got great response to mine. I agree that the sarcasm and cynicism is annoying and unnecessary, but I don't waste my time with it, as well as, any silly responses. <BR>Anyway, give it time and patience and you'll find this forum outstanding. If you want any of my website info, email me and I'm happy to help.

jeff-- <BR> <BR>my advice is to ignore the 'first time users' warning and jump in---the advice here has been fabulous and has assisted me in researching my trip to Italy--guides can advise on which sites and hotels are recommended--but only those who have traveled to the country can give the real story and how to make the most of your trip. <BR> <BR>When I first came upon this form--I read the first 100 or so posts to see if I could find the info I was looking for. You can search the forum for previous suggestions for hotels, restaurants and sites---if that doesn't give you what you are looking for--then by all means, ask--be specific-state your destination and budget--you won't be the first or the last to ask a question that has been asked before--go for it and have fun with it. Ignore the grumbling and look forward to the day when you can offer advice to a first time user and traveler 'grumble free'

<BR>Jeff, welcome to Fodor's. You WILL find alot of useful information at this site. I too, am dismayed by the recent topics, and choose not to get involved. This is a travel forum, nothing else. The search function by specific country or topic is excellent, and very detailed, but if you still don't find what you're looking for, just post your question. You'll find the majority of Fodorites not only well-traveled but eager to share their experiences to help someone else enjoy their own journey more. Will look forward to hearing from you.

Jeff, Do not be intimidated---heed the sage advise of Wes Fowler---whose wisdom <BR>and command of the language always wow <BR>me. The more specific you can be the better. Europe is a big place and many <BR>of the regulars have taken10,20 or more trips to various regions. They will <BR>be very helpful if you can define the question by when, how long, travel style, budget range, preferred tranport <BR>mode and of course your preference of <BR>specific regions . Then, you will get a <BR>really good specific answer. If you want <BR>contact me directly at the above email <BR>and I will try to help to define your <BR>most viable options. It will take you <BR>at least 10 trips to see most of Europe, <BR>but you have to start somewhere.

Jeff: the humorous answers like a gas barbecue or a note from your mother were mine. The same poster had asked several open-ended questions which I took as a poke at the "look here first" string. I assumed that if the poster was giving us a little humorous dig, I could respond with a little humor to let him know I got the joke (and the point). It seems I was mistaken.

Jeff: Don't give up on this Forum; it is much better than your first look would indicate. I went to both sites listed by others, and none compare to the spectrum of information you can get here. There is great, useful, nail-on-the-head, information here. Ask your question and try to ignore a few posters who have tried to turn this into their personal entertainment center. The rest of us check those threads out one time and know that there is no information there. As for the "barbecue and pinata" answers, sometimes people forget that the written word, without the accompanying facial expressions and body language, comes off very differently than was intended! If you have time and want to shuffle through a lot more than you need to know use the search.As with any search, it will bring up the word you put in, but you may have to read a lot of stuff that has nothing to do with your question. I have done this and found some very good forgotten information, but I don't have a lot of time to read so much at this time of year. If you have a question that you want some recent insight into, or just don't want to search, ASK IT! Someone will answer and probably will give you some more up-to-date, precise-to-you information than you would have found in the search. Summer is here, and once people return from their trips, they are eager to share information, and this forum gets very busy and much more useful. I wish Fodor's had the time and inclination to edit out the personal back and forth conversations, or that the posters would use their personal e-mails for these "discussions". (If Fodors is out there, would you at least consider taking out the thread titles that turn people away so quickly, such as "New to this Forum"?

Hi Jeff. I got into this forum about a year ago. Pages of useful information have come my way because of it. I will admit that the European Forum seems to have its share of comments and commentators. Sometimes the discussions get lively. But Fodors owns the forums; not the posters. <BR> <BR>To help plan my upcoming trip to Paris, I posted a question about 5 months ago. I got tremendous help from very generous people. In fact I got so much good help that I have the whole trip pretty well outlined, with one problem: I don't think I have the stamina to see it all in the time allotted. So no joke, post a well conceived question and my guess is that more help than you ever hoped to receive will flow your way. <BR> <BR>I have also put in my two cents worth on some more argumentative issues and have gotten replies that ran the gamut. But that is the nature of this particular branch of the overall tree. <BR> <BR>But no joke, a good question will always get you a good answer on this forum. <BR>There are lots of good, cooperative people who respond. <BR> <BR>And read some of the more lively postings. They are often entertaining, sometimes insightful, and often funny. The comments are, afterall, our constitutional rights in action. And I thank whatever powers that there may be that we have the opportunity to do it! <BR>

Jeff: Please do not let some of the postings "scare" you off! I, too, was new to this board last year. I have currently been reading this forum for over a year, and it has definitely helped me to plan for our 1st European adventure, which is coming up June 11th! <BR>I did all of the planning myself, but I did use a TA to purchase airline tickets and book some hotel rooms. I cannot emphasize enough to you the wealth of information that has been given to me here. If you don't like what someone else has to say, just ignore them. There are truly some wonderful and helpful people here. I will be lost when I return from my trip in mid July and can no longer ask questions! <BR>Keep posting and planning, this is the best form around. Kathy <BR>

What drivel! <BR>

What drivel! Jeff intentionally provokes precisely the type of thread he claims to reject. It's a thin deception. This forum, peppered with inanities, is also robust with information and insights. To suggest that there is no meaningful information to be found here is either completely disengenuous or an admission of incompetence. <BR> <BR>I, for one, wish Jeff the very best of luck in his quest for another forum. Perhaps he might try a search on forum ...

Jeff, today is my first day here too. Buddy, lighten up! Try some shredded wheat. I have already filled two note pages with useful information, and am grateful for it. There are a lot of folks out there, and we are catching them on their best and worst days. One last tip, Fibre.

John, you gotta make it Cinammon Grahams, with skimmed milk. Hmmmmm.... <BR> <BR>Kavey