Nelson

Given the current state of the Euro my wife and I are considering a 3-week trip to Spain in October, the soonest we can or want to go. This is partially depending on if I can get flights with my FF miles, I wanted to brush this rough itinerary idea by Fodorite experts.

We definitely want to see Toledo, the Alhambra, and to spend some time in the area around the town of Cazorla because my ancestors lived there hundred of years ago. Beyond that we are interested in picturesque smaller towns, castles, walking. Less interested in big cities for this trip.

My thoughts are for the itinerary are:

* Fly to Madrid, spend a couple of days since we are there
* Train to Toledo, spend 2-3 days
* Rent a car and gradually (over about a week or so) make our way to Cazorla, spending time where something strikes our fancy
* Spend a few days around Cazorla
* Drive to Granada, return the car, spend a couple of days.
* Train to Malaga, fly home.

Again total time ~3 weeks. Thoughts on the above appreciated. Any glaring errors or omissions.

Two specific questions:
1) Is there a best place to look for car rentals? A quick search turned up europcar.com. Anything better?

2) In October would we need to pre-book hotels, or could we wing it as we go?

Thanks!

danon

Oct., 12 is a National holiday....
Granda was jammed with visitors when we were there during that time.

Not sure how much is to do in Toledo for 3 days.

Bedar

Nelson, think that that's too much time in Toledo. Also, a week or so is too much time to get to Cazorla. Not that much to see on the way. You will want to spend time in Baeza and Ubeda which are near Cazorla and the Cazorla National Park. You should be able to get good game dishes there since it's the hunting season. Also look for the novelty of olive oil ice cream ! You might think of visiting Cordoba, too. It's not far off.

Nelson

From this site, for example, I thought there was enough to keep us busy in Toledo for a few days:
http://hostelsoasis.com/hostels-tole...-things-to-do/

But will take a closer look and consider revisions. Ditto on the time between there and Cazorla. We can have various options in hand, including Cordoba, if we decide not to pre-book hotels for that part of the trip. But will keep the national holiday in mind.

Thanks, appreciate the thoughts.

kja

I found MORE than enough to keep me happily busy for 2 full days in Toledo, and could have used another 1/2 day. I travel hard, so if you like a more relaxed pace, I can easily imagine extending that a bit. JMO.

"Fly to Madrid, spend a couple of days since we are there" If you want to savor Madrid's art museums, add time. If that isn't a priority, a couple of days should be fine.

"Drive to Granada, return the car, spend a couple of days." I gave Granada about 2.5 days and was happy with that; many people give it just 2 nights (so a day to 1.5 days). Be sure to book your time at the Alhambra well in advance, getting both a daytime visit and one for the evening, preferably after your daytime visit.

"Any glaring errors or omissions." That depends on your interests. I consider Cordoba's Mezquita among the most magnificent buildings in the world. And since October can be a lovely time to visit Andalusia, you might want to consider stunning Sevilla and perhaps the awesomely situated Ronda. Just some things to consider...

I'm sure it will be a great trip no matter what you decide!

kimhe

You could easily spend a couple of days in Córdoba, once the most important city in the western world. http://www.andalucia.com/cities/cordoba.htm
http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/313

The video, "Córdoba, vida y genio" (life and spirit) gives you an idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyfGdpF55Uk

Bedar

To answer your two questions:- we always rent cars thru AutoEurope. One of their main companies is Europcar. I always look online but book on the phone. When you pick up the car, try to get a diesel.

You shouldn't have to pre-book hotels in October, and that will leave you freer to wander at will. Don't know your dates for this trip, but Nov. 1st, All Saints' Day, is also a national holiday.

Nelson

Thanks. We are slow travelers for sure, prefer spending more time in fewer places. Last night I looked at Toledo attractions some more and think we could happily spend a few days there.

In Madrid we would definitely hit at least the Prado for one of our days, will look into other museums.

Ronda looks very cool, but maybe a bit too far. But I'll show it to my wife.

OK, I hear the votes coming in for Cordoba. Thanks for those links kimhe. Looks like we should add it to the list. If so maybe the basic strategy should now be:

* Leave Toledo, make our way to Cazorla / Baeza / Ubeda.
* Drive to Cordoba and return the car there, since we should no longer need it. Spend a few days.
* Train to Granada, spend 2 days
* Train to Malaga, fly home

Sound reasonable?

We need to see about getting the FF flights very soon, so that will at least determine our total available time.

Thanks again.

Nelson

Thanks Bedar, I see your answers to my questions just after I posted the above. If we don't need to pre-book, but just have a number of options in hand, then that allows some flexibility. We could pre-book the known dates towards the beginning and end of the trip, but keep the middle part open.

Bedar

Sounds good, Nelson. In today's world of SO many people traveling around, one feels kind of naked in not having reservations, but I think that you'll do OK in the middle of your trip. Last year in Oct. my daughter had reservations in Granada, but they didn't like the hotel and had no trouble getting another one off the cuff. In Baeza we stayed at Hotel Juanico, recommended by Penelope Casas. Great restaurant - where we found the olive oil ice cream. Also found a fabulous tapas joint across from the hotel but can't remember the name. The Parador in the Cazorla National Park is supposed to have good food, too - game from the park.

For our trip in June, we do have reservations at the Parador de Golf in Malaga since we'll be coming directly from the West Coast and will want to immediately crash. Last year we had very bad jet lag.

Good luck getting a FF trip. This will be our first trip not using FF miles. Sob, the tickets were very expensive.

Nelson

Badar, thanks again. I guess the hotel you referred to is Hotel Juanito (not Juanico) in Baeza. Looks nice and we will have to try the olive oil ice cream for sure, but I'll admit it sounds weird!

I put some random October dates in booking.com for Baeza and a number of hotels show up with only 2 rooms left. I realize this is not the last word, and I usually book directly with the hotel, but that does give me slight pause about going without reservations.

Bedar

Sorry, right it is Hotel Juanito. Yes, sort of weird but was good.

I like booking.com but have also noticed those "only 2 rooms left" messages. Now that I find truly weird. Oct. is 7 mos away and practically all the rooms are gone ? I don't think so ! Why not try hotels.com to see what that says.

kja

As danon pointed out, Oct. 12 is a national holiday in Spain, and that could complicate your options. Also, note that many things in Spain are closed on Mondays, so plan accordingly.

I don't think you'll regret your time in Toledo or Cordoba.

"In Madrid we would definitely hit at least the Prado for one of our days, will look into other museums." -- The Thyssen-Bornemisza, Reina Sofia, Museo Arqueológico Nacional, and Monasterio de las Descalzas Reales are among the museum I particularly enjoyed in Madrid.

Nelson

I wonder if booking.com gives the "2 rooms left" because they either want you to book now, or that is all the rooms the hotel has released to them? Maybe someone knows for sure. I will keep the Oct 12 date in mind and make sure we are covered around then.

Thanks for the museum list kja. Yes, that could keep us busy! I'll confess I wasn't sure where Guernica is now housed. As a teenager in New York City it made quite an impression when I saw it at MOMA from time to time. The Thyssen collection looks fantastic too.

joannyc

Three days is not too much for Toledo, IMO. Plenty to see there.

I also rented a car and drove to Consuegra to see the windmills and medieval castle. Cute, little town also that had a festival in full swing the day I went.

Sassafrass

With three weeks, It would be a shame to skip Seville. I love Toledo. It is my favorite walled city and has my favorite cathedral in Europe, and I do like night time there, but I would not stay two or three nights if it meant not seeing Seville in the heart of Andalucia.

Sassafrass

You could
Arrive, go straight to Toledo, relax, walk around, take little train that gives views of Toledo from the surrounding mountains
Toledo - 2 nts, half first day, 1 full day
Madrid - 1 nt, 1 full day, most of next day, then late afternoon train to Cordoba
Cordoba - 2 nts, 1 full day
Train to Seville - 3 nts, 2 full days
Rent car. Do all your exploring to Cazorla, etc., etc., 7 days?
Drive to Granada, return car.
Granada - 2 nts
Train (or bus)to Malaga
You have enough time to add extra days anywhere you want. I just put things in what seems a good order logistically.

Nelson

Thanks for your thoughts Sassafrass. I think adding Seville is started to approach the "too much moving around" tipping point for our tastes. But I definitely see your point after looking at some Seville sights.

This may be a case where we'll decide we can't see it all, but I'll run these suggestions past my wife for her input. Also, we are not absolutely limited to three weeks, but that's about the usual amount of time we like to travel these days.

I was wondering why you returned to Madrid from Toledo, but I looked at the Renfe site and it seems like that's the only option by train.

Consuegra does look like a nice little town joannyc, thanks.

Bedar

Nelson, I think you may have put your finger on the booking.com situation. It would be good to know for sure from someone here.
I, too, saw Guernica at MOMA as a teenager. Nowadays I prefer Goya's The Third of May 1808 at the Prado for that subject matter.

joannyc

Here's what was on my itinerary (based on various guide books and forum postings):

* Scenic big-picture orientation following the Ronda de Toledo signs on a circular tour around city. View many angles along Circunvalacion road across the Tajo Gorge. Stop at viewpoint from gorge or from Parador del Toledo's balcony which is south of gorge for great photo ops! Parador view -the view that El Greco painted. Best photo is at sunset.

* Tourist Train - For pleasant city overview, hop the train Imperial Tourist Tram. 45 min putt-putt thru Toledo and around the Tajo River Gorge. 4.40 Euros, buy ticket from convenience store at Calle de la Silleria 14, leaves Plaza de Zocodover daily on the hour from 11am until evening.

* Tourist Bus - Pick up at Plaza de Zocodover?, then can use the hop-on/off (1 bus every hour) 5 Euros, 8 Euros for hop on/off option, pay driver

* Great photo op of city from other side of river - drive to
La Casona de Tinito Manuel 2 C/ Argentina, 1 (Urb. El Robledo)
45216 Carranque (Toledo) - bridge, river, city, alcazar, etc in one pic!

* Alcazar - Dates to the era of El Cid. Lively center of activity since Arab times is the nearby triangular Plaza de Zocodover (Zocodover means 'beast market' in Arabic

* Cathedral Primada - Magnificent! No photos allowed. See R. Steve's self-guided tour p. 475 or do audio guide. Begun in 1226 and finished 300 yrs later

* Plaza de Zocodover - Main square, gateway to old town. Name is derived from ' livestock market'. Regional Govt Admin Building - look for 3 flags. Look for the controversial McD's! Square is city hub for people, buses, and tourist trains.

* Taller del Moro - Mudejar style palace behind the Cathedral Built by Muslims who remained after the Reconquest.

* Santa Cruz Museum (Museo de Santa Cruz) - Stately Renaissance bldg re-opened in 2011 features 15 El Grecos.
See R. Steve's page 481 for self-guided tour" Formerly an orphanage and hospital

* Mezquita del Cristo de la Luz "Of Muslim Toledo's 10 mosques, this barren little bldg dating from about 1000 is the best survivor. Look up to see Moorish fascination w/ geometry - each dome is a unique design. One of the oldest and loveliest buildings in the city. Lovely keyhole arch faces Mecca. Later changed to a christian church. Fine garden w/ fountains is reminder of Quarnic image of heaven

* Puerta del Sol - Nearby the Mezquita del Cristo de la Luz. A Mudejar-style gate build by the 13th C Knights Hospitallers
* Visigothic Museum in the Church of San Roman (Museo Visigoda Iglesida de San Roman) - 13th C Mudejar church w/ rare 13th C Romaneseque frescoes. Small but interesting colllection of Visigothic artifacts. Illuminated manuscripts and copies of the stunning Visigothic crown jewels. Visigoths were Christian barbaric tribe who ruled Spain between the fall of Rome and the rise of the Moors in 711, ending 2 centuries of Visigoth rule

These sites are in the Southwest end of town. Do them in this order for most efficiency:

* Santo Tome - Simple chapel w/ El Greco's most beloved painting, The Burial of the Count of Orgaz. El Greco placed it here 400 years ago. "Such is the reward foe those who serve God and his saints"

*El Greco Museum (Museo del Greco)- Small, built near site of his home. Highlight is the View and Plan of Toledo, his panoramac map of city. But, if been to Santa Cruz Museum, cathedral, and Santo Tome chapel, probably don't need this small dose of El Greco.

* Sinagoga del Transito (Museo Sefardi) - Built 1361. Best surviving bit of Toledo's Jewish past. Spain's national Jewish museum: Jewish artifacts, costumes, menorahs, books
Interior looks more Muslim then Jewish, Intricate, geometrical carving in stucco.

* Museo Victorio Macho - Overlooking the gorge and Tajo river, can skip museum but see the terrace view from its gate. Peaceful and expansive view from terrace

* Sinagoga de Santa Maria la Blanca - Synagogue turned church - never a mosque though looks like one. Built as synagogue in 1200 by Muslims, became a church in 1492. Today, its an evocative space beautiful in its simplicity.

* San Juan de los Reyes Monasterio - St John of the Monarchs - grand Franciscan monastery, impressive church, and cloistered courtyard Late Gothic style. See R. Steve's p 488 for site tour

* Bus # 12: Self-Guided Tour (A sweat free return trip from Santo Tome to Plaza de Zocodover)- Catch bus # 12 from Plaza del Conde in front of Santo Tome (twice hourly at :25 and :55 until 9:55pm) Pay driver 1 E, Head to Plaza de Zocodover. Can also catch it at Plaza del Barrio.

* Puente de Alcantara - Cross the river on this bridge from train station. Built by Romans, then refurbished by the Muslims and Christians.

* Puerta de Bisagra - Most impressive of the 9 toll-colllecting gates along the city walls

* Puerta de Cambron - Built on the remains of the old Visigothic gateway at the west end of the city, you see the medieval plaque advising gatekeepers that Toledo residents need not pay

* San Martin Bridge

* Castillo de San Servando - On the hill opposite the city. Built on the site of a ruined Arab castle