gard

Hi

There is a story in the newspaper today about a Norwegian that got a fine for buying a fake Rolex at St. Lorenzo market in Florence. The poor kid is only 12 years old and he was arrested and he got a 1000 € fine for buying the watch. But from what I understand the fine could have been up to 10.000 € so I guess the family shouldn't make too much fuzz about this. So I guess the conclusion is...don't buy fake stuff in Italy

Regards
Gard
http://gardkarlsen.com - trip reports and pictures

missypie

I wonder how and why they chose him to fine. Rome and Florence and Pisa and Venice were covered with African guys selling knock off purses and watches. (We even saw a guy selling fake Guucis right outside the Gucci store in Venice.) They're so out in the open...I guess it's kind of like being on the highway with 50 people speeding and you're the one to get a ticket.

Ackislander

It's an interesting idea. Would the South American cocaine trade dry up up if we sent people to jail for possession and use and turned the dealers loose? Professional criminals have economic incentives for risking jail and fines; casual users probably do not.

In fact, there were FEWER vendors in Venice this time than on my last visit, but they weren't completely missing from the scene.

Alec

There was another news report not so long ago about some British tourists who bought fake designer wear at a street market in Italy (San Remo, I think). As they tried to leave Italy for France by car, they were stopped by Italian customs and had their cars searched, and on finding fake goods, they were fined - I think it was a few hundred euro per item. They did pay - but complained bitterly that the goods were being sold so openly on a market with authorities turning a blind eye, and then they swoop on tourists who perhaps naively bought them as souvenirs. They thought the whole operation was nothing short of entrapment.
So the moral of these stories is clear: be very wary of buying fake goods - it could almost be a trap.

j_999_9

Anyone else notice the weird custom in Florence: All the vendors keep their wares on blankets. Then when the cops show up, each vendor scoops up his stuff in the blanket and stands there.

So they pretend to stop selling, and the cops pretend to not notice.

missypie

When we were inside the Castel Sant Angelo in Rome, we looked down and the entire bridge below was covered with the guys with their blankets full of purses. By the time we got to street level, the brige was empty...and the guys had set up their blankets maybe 20 yards away.

Spygirl

There's a term in Venice to describe the African street vendors- "Vu Cumpra" which mimics the Africans' pronunciation of "vuoi comprare?" (do you want to buy?) Another somewhat less racist term is "venditori ambulanti" (walking vendors)

Venice, like Florence, has gone after these sellers with a vengence, (the two cities, with their overburdened tourist population, work in concert on these issues) and will slap huge fines on tourists who buy from them, if they catch you. (Although I'm not sure that some of that is not tinged with more than a bit of racism, as I sometimes feel sorry for them-I see them hassled all the time, by Venetians who shout at them, and the cops who are running after them-Italians are not exactly known as being a "mosaic" society, after all-they almost totally exclude Africans).

For more information look at the Venice City Hall website-their "Bad Bag" campaign:

english.comune.venezia.it/

What most people don't realize is that you can ALSO be fined by DHS Customs agents if they discover a counterfeit item with a luxury brand in your luggage, which, for a first offense, includes a fine comparable to and above the market price of the genuine item in question, as found in a retail store (for a Rolex, that would get pretty pricey!).

Something to keep in mind as you peruse such goods.

missypie

At the end of last week, cnn.com had a story about the "villages without husbands" - villages in Senegal where all of the husbands were off in European cities selling stuff. The husband of one of the ladies they interviewed was selling watches in Pisa...I'm sure that guy talked to me! It was good timing, as I was able to share the "other side" of the story with my kids.

handmaiden

I am so glad these people are being fined because they are THIEVES. Every time you buy a fake Kate Spade bag, it is the same as sticking your hand in her pocket to steal her money.

missypie

But they let the sellers be so thick on the Rialto Bridge that one can hardly get across, but the tourists get the fines....

Anoukaimee

I saw very few of these vendors in July, either in Rome or in Florence. At the Via Condotti two or three would show up after 7 pm but with just a few bags, six or seven. I guess in case they would have to start running at the site of a policeman.

In France and the Netherlands, flights coming from certain countries (Turkey, the Middle East, Bangkok, The US, China)passenger suitcases are thoroughly screened for fakes and fined accordingly.

Dukey

Apparently someone has decided that the best way to deal with this "problem" is to try to discourage demand rather than interdicting supply.

Of course the locals don't like these people since they can siphon off business from brick and mortar establishments.

I disagree as to who the "thieves" are as I suspect they are the people who MADE the knock-off in the first place rather than those people who are selling them.

And just which economy do you suppose benefits the most from the manufacture of those knock-offs?

LJ

There is a Donna Leon novel that deals with the plight of those who do the selling of these goods in Venice (same schtick as Florence). She is a writer who does her homework; it seems that the vendors themselves are victims of crime ganglords (avoiding the use of the "M" word) still at work in Italy today. I wish I could remember the title, it was an enlightening portrait of the crime and the police (lack of) reaction to it.

MaureenB

It's a complex social and legal problem, I'm sure. But it does seem unfortunate that tourists have been targeted as the culprits in the whole scheme.

We saw so many street vendors selling knock-offs in Italy. It was an eye-sore, and also an inconvenience to walk around them and avoid their sales pleas.

They were so prevalent, and even situated outside the real stores, that it is understandable a tourist might assume it is not illegal.

Was it really a 12 year old who was fined? Now, that's criminal, in my opinion.

thursday

The first time I traveled to Florence at the age of 19, I was naive enough to believe they were genuine and bought a Gucci purse. I had no idea it was illegal. Fining the tourists, especially when so young, is a bit iffy IMO.

And I'm not an idiot. =) Even if I've acted like one once or twice in my past.

missypie

So is it a knockoff (subject to a fine) if the designer's trademark fabric is knocked off, but the purse is a different shape than the designer makes? My daughter really really wanted a certain knock-off bag. She didn't buy it and we talked about her saving her money for a real one or maybe getting it for her birthday, etc. As it turns out, we can't even find the "real thing" shaped like the knock-off she wanted to buy. Query, is it really a knock-off (subject to a fine) if the real thing doesn't exisit?

MaureenB

Missypie, absolutely. Because it's not just the shape of the purse, but more importantly the use of the company's logo, color schemes, design and overaall style that's being fraudulently fabricated. It's called a company's 'intellectual property', believe it or not.

missypie

What scares me are the sunglass vendors. I don't know one brand of sunlasses from another; couldn't tell a pair from Target from real designer sunglasses from knock offs. You have to assume that if they are being sold from a blanket on the street, they are knockoffs. But the various stalls (e.g. in Florence and Pisa) have more of an air of legitimacy...

Anya

How much of a fine did the seller get, if any? Or do authorities go after tourists because they can't get anything from the sellers? It looks like extortion more than anything else and I don't think it would discourage the sellers at all.

These goods are sold in the open, not from the trunk of a car or in some dark alley. Why should I be expected to know who Kate Spade is and that $20 is way too low for her bag and therefore the bag is illegal?

Kay_SD

Ok, so it sounds like it is just not safe to buy from street vendors/stalls in Europe. Here in CA, I occasionally go to streetfairs. The vendors sell cute hand crafts, plus clothes, leather goods, sunglasses, etc. I would recognize a fake LV or Gucci bag as a knock off, but I am not familiar with every designer. I could just see myself picking up something because it was cute and cheap (a "what the heck" purchase) and having no idea it was illegal until I got fined.