jamikins

Got an email from Bank Security Enews:

The Europay, MasterCard, Visa standard is coming. And the sooner U.S. card issuers, acquirers and merchants initiate migrations, the better, says Stephanie Ericksen, head of authentication product integration at Visa.

Visa has set aim on April 2013 and October 2015 as EMV-adoption target dates. And the card brand has created a roadmap and guidelines to help issuers and merchants successfully launch and complete their EMV rollouts.

The catalyst for Visa's EMV push: escalating incidents of card fraud. The United States' continued reliance on magnetic-stripe card technology is perpetuating the spread and growth of global card fraud.

MasterCard also has set an April 2013 EMV-compliance deadline for all U.S. ATMs because ATMs are the most often hit with skimming attacks.

EMV, a global card-security standard, has been widely adopted throughout the world. In the United States, however, adoption has lagged. Today, U.S. banks and merchants have fallen far behind, from a card security perspective, opening doors for fraud that have adversely affected the global payments infrastructure.

EMV, which has significantly reduced card-present fraud, will cut fraud losses linked to card skimming at ATMs and points of sale in the United States, Ericksen says; losses that continue to adversely affect the rest of the world.

"Several factors are at play that we believe made this a good time for the U.S. to adopt and embrace chip technology," says Visa's Ericksen, who focuses on payment solutions, enhanced payments security and payments devices. "The movement toward mobile, which uses the same technology as EMV, is a big reason. We've been working on that in the U.S. for a long time. ... and we've had several U.S. issuers that have been looking to issue chip cards for their international travelers."

MaineGG

"...and we've had several U.S. issuers that have been looking to issue chip cards for their international travelers."

US Bank already offers a chip and pin card for their FlexPerks Visa card. We obtained one prior to our trip to France last September and it worked well most of the time. It was accepted in some autoroute toll machines and not others. It was accepted in some parking garages (with PIN entry required), but not others. It was never accepted in a fuel pump. It was accepted in SNCF and RATP ticket machines (no PIN required). It was accepted in many stores that would not take our Capital One card, but instead of requesting a PIN, a signature was required.

So, the experience was pretty varied, but it was good to have it for those times when our other cards were not accepted.

I'm hoping that by the time we return to Europe, the fuel pump and autoroute toll problems will be solved for this card.

hetismij2

I doubt the fuel pump problem will be solved MaineGG - often they don't accept CCs from other European countries, never mind the US.

Good news though that the US is finally moving over to this system. It means the magnetic strip can finally be removed from cards making skimming a thing of the past.

Michael

<i>It means the magnetic strip can finally be removed from cards making skimming a thing of the past.</i>

I doubt it. Electronic devices will always be playing catch-up with hackers.

Michel_Paris

In the last month my credit union and second main bank have sent me chip'ed ATM cards. My main bank and VISA were changed about a year ago. Canada.

Not sure what reasoning is for US. Cards are readable in old and new machines

hetismij2

The reason for chipped ATM cards is that ATMs are switching to only reading the chip not the strip. This is what will put skimmers out of action.
The fact that the US hasn't moved that way yet means there could well be a big increase in skimming at ATMs in the US in the next few months as criminals move their attention from Europe (and to a lesser extent Canada) now that chips are the norm for both credit cards and ATM cards.

No doubt there will be new security breaches in time but at the moment skimmers are struggling.

TDudette

Great news! Not being able to use the train ticket machine was a huge and unwanted surprise.

greg

hetismij2,

Do magnetic stripe only debit cards still work at ATMs in Netherlands?

Michael

<i>Cards are readable in old and new machines</i>

I have not seen the slot to insert the chipped card in restaurant and store readers in the US.

travelgourmet

<i>The reason for chipped ATM cards is that ATMs are switching to only reading the chip not the strip. This is what will put skimmers out of action. </i>

And you think that it is impossible to simply read the chip instead? If the card reader can read information on the chip, then a hacker can read information on the chip. Card security will always be an issue.

<i>I doubt the fuel pump problem will be solved MaineGG - often they don't accept CCs from other European countries, never mind the US.</i>

At some point European companies will manage to figure out a way to introduce broad adoption of credit card standards over an area covering 300m+ people. When they do, perhaps US card issuers and merchants will be more inclined to listen to their "great" ideas?

<i>Not sure what reasoning is for US.</i>

1) Change is expensive.
2) There is no compelling reason to shift as fraud is rare and consumers are largely protected.
3) Were there a compelling reason to change technologies, why change to a technology that is, at this point, already obsolete?

milley_5

travelgourmet, you've confused me.

I have here a leaflet from my bank which says (about the proposed introduction of chip and pin) that the cloning of a card with a strip could be done using a hidden reader either in-store, at a restaurant or even at an ATM. However, it goes on to say that with the chip and PIN card cloning is not possible at those outlets.

They also quoted another article that said in the UK card fraud is now at its lowest in 11 years and that is due to chip and PIN technology. It seems the only increase is in check and online/telephone banking transactions in the UK.

Ok I know they want us to embrace this new-to-us technology therefore they will promote it as best they can but some googling tonight confirmed what teh leaflet said. I've now also found when searching the web that in other European countries the same reduction in fraud has been found in chip and PIN card use.

After reading what you said I now don't know whether or not to go ahead with what they are offering me.....

xyz123

Well let's admit that in so many ways, the USA has been very contrary minded in such elementary things as weights and measures (the obsolete English system of feet, inches etc. and making kids learn such important information there ared 5,280 feet in a mile and then actually testing kids on converting whereas in 99% of the rest of the civilized world, to convert 3500 meters to kilometers, you just move the decimal point but then again we hear the same nonsense, you can't teach an old dog new tricks and the cost....oh well end of editorial).

As far as emv cards are concerned, more and more Americans wishing to use a credit card are being inconvenienced. In the Netyherlands, many many merchants simply will not take an obsolete American credit card with a magnetic strip. You call your bank, you call visa or mc and they tell you, they're required to take it. Does you a lot of good when you're at a train ticket window in Amsterdam and there's a big sign American credit cards not welcome (although they don't see it that way). More and more ATM's are being converted into emv only. The battle has been lost. Period.

Now of course there are the usual excuses...(the cost, let's wait for better technologies, we don't need it in the USA as fraud is very low). Too bad if travellers are very much inconvenienced. Just use cash (although if you can't use your debit card in an ATM, you can't get cash now can you).

But there is some light at the end of the tunnel. Several banks, of course n their premium cards with high fees and mnny with the obnoxeous 3% near criminal foreign transaction charge when the banks have nothing to do with foreign currency conversions, it's just a pure greed fee, have begun issuing chip and singautre cards. It's too much to admit they've been wrong so they won'it issue chip and pin but rather chip and signature cards. Do they work in Europe? Mixed reviews. Many places do not take the chip and signature cards but at least it's a start. On many of its American Airlines mastercards, Citibank via request will issue a chip and signature card.

So, it's coming. But it should have been done years ago and only the arrogance of the American banks have kept them from consumers in America...

travelgourmet

xyz - You speak as if Europe has a single system for this sort of stuff. The incompatibility of European networks means that European chip and pin cards suffer from similar problems with acceptance. Despite promises about some EU law fixing things, I have still never been able to use my Danish chip-and-pin card in the UK, France, or Holland without resorting to the magnetic stripe. Heck, maybe 5% of the time I use my card in DK, the chip reader doesn't work. The solution, of course, is to use the stripe.

There is one broadly adopted, globally distributed card accepted mechanism. That happens to be the magnetic strip. There is no EU system. That isn't the fault of Americans. If and when the euros get their act together and come up with a workable cross-border standard, then US issuers might be interested. But, as long as the Dutch keep seeking a Dutch solution, while Danes implement a Danish solution, you will have the problems you cite.

As for metric, the costs of switching is high and there is no compelling reason to switch. If you have trouble with conversions, get an iPhone.

xyz123

Travelgfourmet...the incompatibility of some of the chip cards within the eu has for the most part been resolved within the last few years. There was a time in the not so recent past that an English chipped card would not work in France.....at the insistance of the eu they are trying as best as possible to make emv the standard within Europe and indeed there is talk of banning tyhe use of non chip cards within the eu and at ATM's in the near future. More and more, American trav ellers with the obsolete magnetic strip cards are reporting difficulties in using them in Europe,.

As far as a complete conversion, waiting or something better, there is a degree of validity to tht. But then again, there will always be something better just down the road. There is no need, at this time, to completely convert the US payment system althugh more and more when pos termnals wear out, they are beling replaced by terminals capable of dealing with either chip and pin or chip and signature. Banks, as has been shown, could bergin issuing hybrid cards with both the magnetic strip and chips tomorrow. Many are but, of course since this is the way banks operate in the USA, restricting these cards for the mot part to high end customers willing to pay high annual fees. Neither of us, of course, have ever met a banker who would pass up an opportunity to make a profit on a mere mortal's needs.

I stick to what I said. There is a certain amount of arrogance involved here like if you don't like the way we do it in America, too bad. It is interesting to note the list of countries that still use the outdated Imperial measures and still use Farenheit instead of Celsius. All these are things whose time have long since come. Our neighbors to the north quite easily converted their distances and temperatures and whatever to metric a generation ago. It was done and it was simple and their highway system is very long and their land mass are larger than ours. Just make a list of countries that use our outdated system and tell me you don't see something wrong.

Since you are a travelgourmet, I would just be curious to listen to you if you are caught in some burgh in Europe trying to purchase something with your outdated American credit card and the merchant says no chip, no good...and you discover tht all the ATM's in that country only take chip cards. And that's coming in many places; it's almost here now in the Netherlands. Why are our banks subjecting their customers to all this inconvenience. Chip and pin cards could be readilly available tomorrow, the back office technology is already in placer. I still wish somebody could come up with an answer.

travelgourmet

<i>the incompatibility of some of the chip cards within the eu has for the most part been resolved within the last few years.</i>

As a holder of chip cards from both Denmark and Switzerland, I don't find this to be the case at all.

<i>at the insistance of the eu they are trying as best as possible to make emv the standard within Europe</i>

There is quite the difference between legislating and enforcing. The EU is quite good at legislating. They are largely ineffective in enforcing. There remains no single EU-wide standard.

<i>and indeed there is talk of banning tyhe use of non chip cards within the eu and at ATM's in the near future.</i>

So, let me get this straight. The EU has a problem with credit card fraud and lacks US-style consumer protection, so they resort to chip cards, even though the globally-adopted standard remains magnetic strip. Now you are saying they will ban the use of a technology that is broadly distributed on a worldwide basis. And Americans are the arrogant ones?

<i>More and more, American trav ellers with the obsolete magnetic strip cards are reporting difficulties in using them in Europe,.</i>

Again, I have far, far, far fewer problems using my magnetic strip cards in foreign countries than in using my chip and pin cards outside Denmark. To the extent American travelers have problems it is either down to incompetent staff (most cases) or the use of exclusively local systems (e.g. ticket machines in Holland).

<i>Since you are a travelgourmet, I would just be curious to listen to you if you are caught in some burgh in Europe trying to purchase something with your outdated American credit card and the merchant says no chip, no good...and you discover tht all the ATM's in that country only take chip cards.</i>

Sigh... If that burgh also is incompatible with my chip and pin card, what difference would it make? Again, when the euros actually manage to implement a compatible system across the entirety of the EU, then we can think about adopting it. Until then, there is no reason to switch.

<i>It is interesting to note the list of countries that still use the outdated Imperial measures and still use Farenheit instead of Celsius. </i>

I agree. It is interesting that the primary country still using non-Metric system of measures is the world's richest country, one of the primary technological innovators, and has the overwhelming plurality (if not majority) of the top 100 universities in the world. Throw in the very weakly-Metric UK, which is the leading financial center of Europe and the only country with universities that match the best in the US, and it would seem that Metrication indicates pretty much nothing. Why you insist upon droning on about this topic is beyond me. Every American learns metric in school. It is broadly used in science, engineering, and commerce. That Americans don't see a need to start ordering 454 grams of ground beef, rather than a pound is because there is no need. Everyone knows what a pound is. Everyone knows what an ounce is. Everyone knows what 100F means. Not throwing away a widely known standard simply to adopt another one isn't arrogant, it is practical.

<i>There is a certain amount of arrogance involved here like if you don't like the way we do it in America, too bad.</i>

That isn't it at all. You simply haven't made a compelling case for switching any of the incompatibilities you like to drone on about. That they do it differently in "Europe" is no more a reason for the US to switch than vice versa. Unfortunately, that "Europe" does it differently is the only argument you seem to have. Frankly, I think there is a bit of an inferiority complex underlying your insistence that the US adopt "European" standards for, well, pretty much everything.

zippo

"fraud is rare and consumers are largely protected."
Fraud is in fact massive and consumers end up paying for it all through bank charges.

"Everyone knows what an ounce is. Everyone knows what 100F means."
No, we don't. But we know what a dinosaur is.

sassy_cat

"Everyone knows what an ounce is. Everyone knows what 100F means."
No, we don't. But we know what a dinosaur is.

sassy_cat

New measures to fight fraud are benefits in my book.
I have a chip and pin card from the UK but only use it there as it incurs foreign transaction fees elsewhere and I'm very happy that I'm getting a 'secure key' for online banking from HSBC.

TPAYT

bookmarking

Michael

<i>That Americans don't see a need to start ordering 454 grams of ground beef, rather than a pound is because there is no need</i>

In France, <i>une livre</i> is a common way of specifying the desired amount when buying food. But it is metric, representing 500g. I suspect that a similar weight switch could be made for the same terminology in the U.S.