BBgt

After a long delay, I'm back in planning mode for a trip to Britain with my mother and son, who will be 11 when we go (June 2015). I know it's a long way off, but I really want to get an idea for what's doable and how much to budget!

We are looking for scenic beauty, castles, kid-friendly museums, Harry Potter sights and quintessential British villages, country houses, churches, etc. My mom really wants to see a bit of Wales, Scotland and northern England.

We're considering the following 3 week rough itinerary, assuming we have a car outside of London and Edinburgh:

- London - 5/6 nights
...Train to Chester, hire car....
- North Wales - 3/4 nights
- York - 2/3 nights
- N. Yorkshire Moors - 2 nights (at my aunt's B&B nr Whitby)
- Alnwick - 3 nights (Alnwick Castle, coast, stop at Hadrian's Wall on way up from Glaisdale)
- Edinburgh - 3/4 nights (turn in car, take a day trip with Rabbie's)

My first question is the ever-popular: Is this a reasonable pace? Just looking for opinions - I realize everyone has a different travel style.

Second: Would it be possible to cover most of our wish list if we chose two bases (self-catering cottages) outside of London? I'm debating the practicalities/cost of staying 2-3 nights in B&B's along our route vs. self-catering.

Third: Any thoughts on whether a multi-day small group tour might suit our needs? Rabbie's Trail Burners (as one example) has a 7 day tour going from London to Edinburgh that covers a lot of what we'd like to see. Not sure how I'd fit in the visit to my aunt near Whitby, but could possibly work that in.

Another thought I'd had was to base in London, Chester, York and Edinburgh and do organized day tours from those bases to eliminate the need to hire a car. Just a thought, but probably not practical. Any comments are welcome!

indy_dad

Hi BBgt

Since you have some time, you could peruse my blog to get some ideas. We've been in the UK 2 years now (kids 13 & 10) and have visited many of the places you mentioned.

ukfrey.blogspot.com

I'll try to dig out some links, but here are a few from a previous post to get you started:

Scotland Highlands
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...rip-report.cfm

Edinburgh
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-with-kids.cfm

N. Wales
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...orth-wales.cfm

Lake District
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...e-district.cfm

We've also visited Chester, York, Alnwick and a few others if you dig around a bit.
Good luck

BBgt

Thanks Indy Dad - I'll start checking those links!

janisj

Your plan is pretty well paced IMO. Maybe a little light in Scotland but certainly reasonable.

>><i>Would it be possible to cover most of our wish list if we chose two bases (self-catering cottages) outside of London?</i><<

Unfortunately not. Some of your destinations are hundreds of miles apart and almost none are w/i day tripping distance of each other.

>>Any thoughts on whether a multi-day small group tour might suit our needs? Rabbie's Trail Burners (as one example) has a 7 day tour going from London to Edinburgh<<

Rabbies is great - and your idea of using them for a scenic tour out of Edinburgh is a good one. But to cover what you want to see/do over 12+ days on a 7 day coach tour is an awful idea (sorry )

>><i>Another thought I'd had was to base in London, Chester, York and Edinburgh and do organized day tours from those bases to eliminate the need to hire a car.</i><<

Certainly there are day tours out of London (but not to the areas up north that fulfill so many of your wish list), and out of Edinburgh. And a few out of York. Chester is a nice place to visit - but not a place to base for any extended time nor for many guided tours.

The Castles of N Wales are terrific - but one way to simplify things a bit would be drop Chester/Wales. You could take a train from London to York, stay 2 nights car-less, pick up a car, visit the Moors/Auntie/Whitby, then maybe a few days in the Dales, 1.5-2 days along Hadrian's Wall, 2 days for Alnwick, then the rest in Edinburgh. Return the car when you get to Edinburgh, spend maybe 3 days there plus a Rabbies tour to the highlands. Fly home from Edinburgh.

irishface

Your trip sounds reasonable. I would definitely recommend hiring a car! I took nephews (11 and 14 at the time--their sons are almost ready to take off with me now!) The car made stopping whenever hunger or "wiggles" overtook us or an unexpected stop popped up. We had a box of picnic essentials in the trunk (roll of paper towels, plastic cutlery, wet wipes, bread, pb&j, fruit, cookies, juice boxes, etc.) so we could put together lunch or snack at a layby or parking lot at one of the sights, many of which have picnic table available.

When in the Alnwick area, Bamburgh Castle was a good visit and the beach for a good run was just a few steps from the parking lot at Bamburgh. Also went out to Lindisfarne Island via the causeway which works at low tide. Hiked out to the ruined abbey. Also a boat trip out to see birds on the Farne Islands from Seahouses.

The boys loved Hadrian's Wall.

In North WAles, there is a trip up the cog railway to Snowdonia, castles galore, slate mine visit, steam railway from Blenau Festiniog and much more.

Indy Dad's trips are a great read and source of many ideas for family stuff.

Three generations sounds like great fun!

irishface

Did London and south England with other nephews at 10 and 12--25 years ago. They surprised me with lots of interest at Westminster Abbey. We took a trip by boat down to Greenwich and visited the Cutty Sark and Prime Meridian. We then rented a car. Did the castles galore tour of south Wales and border country, saw a medieval reenactment, visited Stonehenge, Salisbury, and circled back to Gatwick via Kent.

Do get your son involved in choosing destinations. All of the nephews did a lot of research and had choices of things to see. I took their number one choices and then made a rough circle and then they researched more of what they wanted to see in each area. We also stopped in tourist offices in each new area, and often found brochures for sights not on the radar of many guidebooks.

Traveling with kids is great fun! They think of the darndest things to say and do and look at things from an entirely different point of view.

BBgt

Thanks for those great replies!

Janis, I think you are spot-on with the recommendation to skip N. Wales and take the train to York - especially since I've seen really inexpensive fares on advance purchase for the trip from London to York. It's just hard to give up the idea of N. Wales. All of your points are well taken, though.

To clarify on the Rabbie's tour - their 7-day includes 2 nights in Chester (with a day trip to Conwy/Snowdonia), 2 in York (with a day trip to Whitby and Robin Hood's Bay), and 2 in Keswick. I fully agree that it's too little time in each place, but they're all places we want to see. Do you still think that's a mad pace? Just asking in a last gasp effort to make that particular trip fit our bill. ;-) 'Course, two nights in York wouldn't allow us time to go see my aunt unless Rabbie's could break up the tour for us, which they may well do, but anyway...

Irish Face - I love your description of the trip with your nephews, because that's exactly what I envision. I think Mom and my son would love Bamburgh and Lindisfarne, and I've looked at those boat trips with interest because birds are a passion of mine.

Indy Dad - I really enjoy your blogs - what a great opportunity for your family! I'm more than a bit jealous. I may be back with specific questions for you as our plans develop.

Honestly, I think my mom is very open to suggestions, and we are in very early days, so there is lots of opportunity to shape this trip into something very memorable with the least foreseeable stress. The more I read about Scotland, the more time I want to spend there, so I could easily see spending a few days in London, take the train to York, spend a week with a car in N. Yorkshire, then a week in Scotland - possibly with a Rabbie's multi-day tour of the Highlands.

Keep the comments coming!

Morgana

Agree with your new plan as stated in the last paragraph of your post above - I could give you enough suggestions for your time up here in North Yorkshire to fill a month!
Bearing in mind you will have your 11 year old lad with you, I'd recommend the following -
1) If he likes reading, that he reads the Whitby Witches series of books before he gets here.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Whitby-W.../dp/0750005815
2) That if you like reading you read The Plot - which you could then visit!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Plot-Biograp.../dp/1847081444
3) Your son will love The Forbidden Corner, in the Dales. Tickets MUST be booked in advance, you can't just turn up
http://www.theforbiddencorner.co.uk/
4) The Forbidden Corner is near Middleham Castle - Richard III has been in the news a LOT recently!
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/d...dleham-castle/
5) A trip on the North Yorks Moors railway -
http://www.nymr.co.uk/
6) The free National Railway Museum in York is wonderful, even for non train lovers
7) Fountains Abbey - World Heritage site
http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/fountains-abbey/#2
8) On a wet day - Eden Camp - again I think your son would like this place
http://www.edencamp.co.uk/
Hope this kicks off some North Yorkshire research!

jen49

My children loved North Wales at your child's age--especially Conway Castle as they could roam the walls. I grew up in the north midlands -now live in the US--so it was a natural place for us to visit. They also enjoyed walking on the Great Orme and the beaches in Llandudno and riding the Snowdonia railway. It could be a place to rent a cottage and roam.
I think one thing you must decide is whether to include Scotland in your itinerary -- if so I would skip the time in York and head for the Whitby area then go north to Hadrian's Wall and Edinburgh. Also keep in mind that you need to plan for rain or shine so keep your plan flexible. Our kids loved the small places that we would come across during our roaming. Think about it through 11 year old eyes and enjoy the ride!

jen49

What the heck --just go to Yorkshire --it would be great!

janisj

I agree w/ Morgana. Your last paragraph is a perfect trip - w/ one adjustment.

>>I could easily see spending a few days in London, take the train to York, spend a week with a car in N. Yorkshire, then a week in Scotland - possibly with a Rabbie's multi-day tour of the Highlands.<<

I'd add 2 or 3 days between Yorkshire and Edinburgh to visit Hadrian's Wall and Alnwick. One can get a really good overview of the Wall and visit 2 or 3 of the forts in one full day and Alnwick Castle and Gardens (two different/wonderful attractions on the same enormous site) takes a full day as well.

Neither should be missed IMO

BBgt

Thanks Morgana and Jen49! Jen - I completely agree that we've got to decide whether it's Scotland or Wales, in terms of being able to spend much time in either. Scotland just makes more sense geographically given our ties to N.Yorkshire and desire to visit Northumberland, but as I mentioned earlier, I hate the thought of missing out on Wales on this trip. But, we may have to save it for a future trip.

Morgana - My aunt lives near Glaisdale. What would you think of being based there for sights that you mentioned?

BBgt

Janis - we were typing at the same time. Actually, I was thinking along the lines of what you said. I really meant to say "a week in N. Yorkshire and Northumberland", because I agree that Hadrian's Wall and Alnwick are must-see's for us.

Morgana - I'm looking at ViaMichelin, and it does appear that my aunt's would be a good base for a few of those sights you mentioned, but probably not for Middleham Castle or the Forbidden Corner. Both great ideas, though!

Here's what I think would work really well:

- 5-7 days in London (lots we want to do there)
- Train to York, spend 2 nights and the better part of 2 days
- Hire car, drive to aunt's for 2-3 nights, visit Whitby & coast and any nearby attractions we feel like at the time
- Drive on up to Northumberland for 3-4 days for the Wall, Alnwick, Bamburgh/Lindisfarne
- Drive to Edinburgh, ditch car, spend 2-3 days in Edinburgh and possibly a multi-night Highlands tour with Rabbie's (need to look at this more - I've seen several that looked good)

Other option for Scotland would be to drive ourselves around a bit before landing in Edinburgh, but I like the idea of only having a car for a week. Need to think about that.

Janis (or anyone) - where would you base in Northumberland? Is stopping at the wall enroute to Alnwick from Whitby area doable if we base in Alnwick for a few nights?

BBgt

Should clarify that I'm thinking 7 nights total in Scotland, with the question being whether to drive ourselves around a bit before going to Edinburgh for a few nights, or just go to Edinburgh, then take either a couple of full day small group tours or one multi-night one from there.

janisj

You will have driven quite a bit around Yorkshire and points north. And a car is <u>totally</u> useless in Edinburgh (plus it limits where you can stay due to parking).

Driving in Scotland (outside of Edinburgh and Glasgow) is a piece of cake. But even so, in your situation I'd probably do 2.5 days in Edinburgh and a 3 or 4 day tour w/ Rabbies (or Timberbush - equally good). Their day trips are fine, but the multi-day tours are a great way to see a lot of gorgeous country.

They are a very good compromise - not the huge 45+ passenger coaches, but usually 12 or fewer passengers. And the local driver/guides know everything about everywhere you'll go.

I personally LOVE driving in the UK but sometimes it is nice to sit back and enjoy and these small van tours let you do that.

indy_dad

Alnwick and York from 2 years ago (and before the blog posts became huge):

http://ukfrey.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05...r-weekend.html

BBgt

Janis, you and I are on the same wavelength today . I was just looking at Rabbie's website (need to look at Timberbush as well), and I'm practically drooling. Highlands - Oh my! Isle of Skye - wow!! Castles, lochs, coast and wildlife - I might never leave!

Indy Dad - I just checked out your blog, which is great. It is so helpful to see what you and your family enjoyed, since my son will be about the same age as yours when we go. The beauty of all of the places we're considering is that there is so much for every generation to enjoy. I can imagine being in York Minster with my mom and son, for example, and know that we'll each come away with a different impression based on our individual perspectives. I'm sure my son will enjoy some things more than others, but can't imagine he'll be bored!

bilboburgler

There is a range of books at York Cathedral which do a kids tour rather than an adults tour. My sub 16 year old nieces did this tour while my Professor of History BIL did his own "adults tour" until he worked out that the kids one was more fun.

BBgt

Good to know, Bilboburgler - thanks!

Morgana

Glaisdale is fine as long as you are not longing for the bright lights! I agree that Middleham, Forbidden Corner etc are a long way west (the Dales) from where you plan to stay. York and the Moors have plenty to keep you occupied.
Other places of interest around the Moors, Howardian Hills etc are -
Castle Howard
Rievaulx Abbey
Byland Abbey
Robin Hood's Bay
Your son might be interested in doing some fossil hunting?
http://www.tonmo.com/science/fossils/fossilhunting.php
Northumberland has some Harry Potter 'sites' including Alnwick Castle.