Most of you seem to be more extensively traveled than I, so here's a question for those who have experience with both European and American airliners. Which airline, and which type of jet, has the tightest and most uncomfortable coach seating configuration -- and which has the most comfortable spacing and seating? <BR> <BR>It seemed to me that the American Airlines 767 we flew to UK could not possibly have been more tightly packed -- I'm not quite 5'2" and I could scarcely cross my legs. I can't imagine being a 6-footer on such flights! By comparison, the British Air "lowly" 737 was spacious and comfortable. <BR> <BR>Can one generalize that US carriers are more contemptuous of coach passengers in their seating configuration -- or is it a matter of long-range flights, no matter what the carrier, cramming in coach passengers to offset the extra space given business and first class? <BR> <BR>If I have a choice next time, which trans-Atlantic carrier would offer the most comfortable seating?

Check out http://members.aol.com/hilesd/legroom.html <BR>for comparisons of legroom for all flights out of D.C./BWI. Even if you don't fly from there, it may give you some insight.

Somehow that doesn't surprise me about American Airlines... but the most crowded plane I've ever been on was probably similar. It was a KLM flight - nine hours of misery. I could barely move and I'm only 5'2" too. Who designs those awful seats with the headrests that shove your head forward anyway? I can only think that they work for 7' tall people. Maybe a 7' tall person can enlighten me on that. <BR>

I am 6' and find any flight over 1 hour an unpleasnat experience. My recent flight to Europe on Lufthansa from San Francisco to Munich wasnt too bad. It was a 747 and the leg room seem ample (for coach) and I wasnt too stressed when I arrived in Munich. The seats on Lufthansa seemed morecomfy than most. They also had these great 'fins' which you can fold out to rest you head on while you sleep. Unfortunately my return flight wasnt as comfy, although the space was the same, the guy in front of me reclined his seat all the way back and the guy behind me who was huge put his knee up on my seat so I could not recline it!! Jerk! Well guess hwat, I figured he had to go to the bathroom eventually and I took that opportunity to put my seat into the full recline position! Ha! To top it all off there was a huge Turkish guy sitting next to me who seemed to take up all of his seat and most of mine. Hey! I paid for that space on the right side of the arm rest! Thsi was the worst 14 hours I have ever spent in my life!! <BR> <BR>I also agree with April (above), KLM flights have the worst space I have ever seen! ((% of the flights I take are on United and most of their flights seem to give good leg room. I especially like the 757's and A320 jets. <BR> <BR>Hrer is a hint, as for a bulkhead or exit row seat when you check in, although you can get a bulkhead seat when you book your reservation, you can only get an exit row when you check in. These seat give you plenty of legroom and if it wasnt for the crappy food they serve you in coach, you arrive feeling like you traveled first class! To get the exit row seats you need to get to the airport extra early because these fill up fast!

I only know that the last time I flew Delta to Europe my knees were slammed up against the seat in front of me and I was tightley squeezed into the seat. While I am not a small frame person, there are plenty of people larger than me I know. Very uncomfortable. <BR> <BR>I am flying Air Canada to Paris in September---any experience with them?

The WORST flight ever bar none hands down winner: El Al from London to NYC. The seats were the same width as kindergarten chairs. I am a small woman, I sat next to a small woman, and we kept oozing into each other's seat because they were so narrow. Martin 404s have more room.

<BR>I find most airlines seating configuations for coach very uncomfortable with the worst seats being on the 757, for me anyway, as I have a bad back. I believe I read an article a year or so ago in some travel magazine that rated airline seats and gave the 757 the worst rating. We couldn't upgrade coming home a couple months ago from Portugal (KLM/NW 757) and I had back problems for several days afterwards. Very uncomfortable on the flight. Even without back problems, I find the seating in general awful, and I'm only 5'3 l/2, and ll0 #; I can't imagine how taller or bigger people can manage. We try to upgrade with FF miles whenever possible, and usually are lucky. We have a flight to New Zealand in Oct. that we're dreading because so far we're not able to upgrade to business, and the business fare is just too costly.

Cassandra, <BR>Last October, Consumer Reports Travel Letter developed a listing of the "Worst Seats in the Sky" rating various types of aircraft, their seating arrangements and the carriers that use them. The letter developed an overall UNdesirability rating taking into consideration three factors: seats in the middle, seats that don't recline and seats near the lavatory. The 747 in its various seating configurations by 6 different airlines was rated worst with an average of 48% undesirable seating. The actual ratings for the 747 ranged from 41% for British Airways 747-100 to 56% for United's 747-200 with 268 seats. The 767 in its various configurations by 6 different airline rated best with an average 29% desirability. Ratings ranged from 24% for Delta's 767-300ER with 203 seats to 37% for US Airways 767-200ER. <BR> <BR>The absolutely worst possible seat in any aircraft on any airline is in the last row where the passenger must contend with lavatory traffic, a seat that doesn't recline and disproportionate turbulence. <BR> <BR>It pays when booking a flight to examine the seating arrangements of the airline and its aircraft rather than simply limiting your request to an aisle or window seat. Being more specific in your seating demands can result in a far less excruciating experience. <BR>

Wes, I'm somewhat confused by the ratings you describe. Is a low percentage a good thing? <BR> <BR>We flew a British Air 747 last year, and I was in exactly that least desireable seat. My mom and I were in the last row, in the seats that don't recline. We could tell from look around that we had a good 1 inch less leg room than the other seats, too. I have NEVER been more uncomfortable on a flight. I was so naseous I had to get out of my seat, and spent much of the trip sitting on the floor in the aisle. At least when most people were sleeping, and there was no food service going by, they were tolerant and let me stay there. For our return trip we got to the airport 3 hours early in order to ensure that we could get exit row seats. And I've been very careful from then on to make sure I never get stuck in the last row of any cabin. <BR> <BR>Richard, your posting has made me feel better about taking Lufthansa to Rome this fall. I was hoping to find somewhat more space. We'll still go to the airport very early to get those exit row seats. <BR> <BR>Cassandra, airlines in general seem to be contemptous of passenger comfort. I'm not sure its really worse amongst US carriers. Personally I would pay a little more for my seat if it meant I could have more space (but not business class prices, they are outrageous). My husband and I even considered paying for 3 tickets for the two of us, so we would be guaranteed some room. Only the damn airlines won't even guarantee 3 seats together! Sure, we'd probably get it, but we can't be promised, and I'm not willing to risk it.

We usually try to get to the airport really early and check in and ask for an exit seat. The only thing is, they don't recline, but we are both really tall and will gladly trade that in for extra leg room. We had a marvelous trip from NY to Geneva on Swissair. Wonderful food, superb service and enough leg room...they seem to be partners with Delta which we flew to get to NY.

I had a very comfortable flight on an Air France 747 coming all the way from the west coast. I had more leg room than I've ever had before, the seats were plenty wide too. It was wonderful compared to the AA 757 roundtrip to Nashville. I'm only 5'4" with short legs and I couldn't cross them at all. My knees touched the seat in front and the restroom smelled to high heaven right from the beginning! It was bad.

Reply to Mary's question about Air Canada to Europe. The Air Canada B-767s have more space and are more comfortable than either British Airways or Air France's 747s. Have not flown an Air Canada 747 so don't know about it.

Interesting responses -- hope some more weigh in with more experiences. A friend told me, off-line, that she loved Turkish air for the space and service. <BR> <BR>Brian -- I checked the legroom site -- hasn't been updated in 2 years, but interesting. I'd love to see someone do further calculations of the relative cost per square or cubic inch of First, Business, and Coach seats. <BR> <BR>April -- agree emphatically with your point about head rests (also a problem with most cars -- I pulled mine out and turned them backwards so I wouldn't have to drive with my head pitched looking down at my knees). <BR> <BR>Suggestions about asking for bulkhead or exit rows are pertinent -- those are better seats -- but my experience with a lot of domestic flying is that they will _never_ give those seats to a short female traveling alone, unless the flight is half-empty. They save them for taller males (maybe understandable, but it drives me nuts to have the seat held until 2 minutes to departure), last-minute high-mileage flyers, and airline employees flying deadhead. Asking early, dressed for business, nicely or demandingly -- it only works a rare occasions for me. Sounds like whining, I know, but after being turned down a couple of times (even when I checked in WAY early), I began to keep track of who got those seats. <BR> <BR>

Oh for the good old days of Wardair. I too would pay more for decent seating and to not have those bagged lunches. KLM has probably lost this customer for life - and I used to be a big fan. (American Airlines too, but for other reasons.) <BR>I think Air Canada is reasonably OK, Mary. At least I don't remember any bad experiences with them except for one very cranky attendant. <BR>

There are discounters out there for business class seating. Try www.adventure-bound.com- click on international and scroll down to the bottom of the page.

For those of you travelling from Canada ,"Canada 3000" offers what they call "Club Class" seating on their flights to the South pacific. The cost is around $200.00 one way.I am not sure if they offer similar seating for Europe but it is worth looking into.

One trick on seating if traveling with another person is to book the window and the aisle, not window and middle as most people do. That way you have a chance that they are not sold out and will not assign the middle seat as no one wants that if they do not have to take it. If they do give it to someone, the person who got the middle seat will always give it up to get the aisle and you are right back where you would have been anyway. This works quite a few times and avoids the 350 pound giant in the seat next to you.

www.washingtonpost.com There is an article in today's Business section by some masochist (sp?) who took 18 flights in 21 days to write about traveling coach in the US. The bad news is, doesn't look like leg room will get much improvement...the good news is recent airline designs (777)are giving us slightly wider seats. Must be another one of those "aging baby boomer" accomodations! At this point, I'll take anything that's somewhat of an improvement. When I'm traveling with my husband and we're seated together, we'll raise the armrest between us to eek out a bit more space.

A caveat re exit row seats, the armrest does not hinge up, and the tray table is stowed in the armrest, not comfortable if you're on the portly side as the forward adjustment of the tray is limited.

I suggest that everyone go to passengerrights.com, write your congressmen(there is a committee addressing passenger complaints), call the airline you flew and call the FAA. Perhaps none of this will do any good, but perhaps it will. <BR>