MarieC

My apologies in advance for what will be a rather lengthy post. Two daughters, 18 and 20 traveling through France and Italy. They will be taking the train and we have determined it is cheaper to use a Eurail Youth Saver Pass rather than point-to-point tickets. The Eurail site does a fairly poor job of showing all the train routes, timetables, etc. So far the best I have found is the German rail site even though they aren't going to Germany. The German site gives the time tables, but doesn't list what types of trains. My first question: is it cheaper to buy the reservations here? Generally I would guess it would be cheaper in Europe. But, for example, they are taking the TGV from Paris to Nice; if they buy a reservation here, it's only $11.00 US per ticket. I read a recent post here which reported a 15euro supplement for any Eurostar train. Any thoughts? Hopefully the trenitalia site will start to be a bit more functional soon and I can determine whether they will be taking any Eurostars.

hopscotch

If you bought the rail pass already then you have also received the rail map and another booklet explaining just about everything.

As for buying reservations, just forget it totally. The kids are traveling 2nd class. There is almost always a seat (except on urban locals) and there is always standing room. At every stop people get off so just mosey over to the empty seats as people stand up to collect their things. Don't wait for the train to stop because then you are competing with other locals who are getting on the train.

A good intro to riding the rails is at http://tinyurl.com/eym5b.

Eurostar is the London<->Paris train.

The best rail timetable is the Thomas Cook European Rail Timetable. Get it at http://tinyurl.com/hnt5t.

TimS

Reservations, on trains which require them, are cheaper in Europe. For example, a seat reservation on the TGV from Paris to Nice costs 3 EUR.

Reservations on Italian trains, if required, should cost the same. The one exception is EuroStar Italia trains for which the fee is indeed 15 EUR.

Reservations for couchettes on night trains should be made well in advance since popular routes often sell out.

See the railpass sections at www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com for more information. For expert free advice over the phone, call Budget Europe Travel Service, 800-441-9413 or 800-441-2387. Ask for a copy of their free European Planning and Rail Guide.

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MarieC

Thank you all for your help.
Hopscotch, my daughters are traveling in late June. I have been in Europe in late June and there aren't always seats available. While they are young and strong, I wouldn't wish them to stand for several hours on a train. If you have a fixed itinerary (which they do) so that you really do need to be in a certain place on a certain date, I would never recommend traveling without rail reservations in high season. I have done it other times and would do so again but not during the summer. Also, on atleast a portion of each trip, reservations are required. Thanks for the Thomas Cook tip, but I was trying to find rail schedules without buying a book!

PalenQ

As for reservations like you pose.

In Italy in Feb i paid 15 euros to ride any eurostar italia high-speed train but there are often alternative trains that are just not quite so fast - i took a local from Rome to Florence where i just got on (had Eurailpass) but took an hour longer and i was in no hurry and love to stop at small stations, etc. so unless it's a Rome-Venice trajectory where the ES train is practically mandatory they don't have to always pay 15 euros. And i believe RailEurope is charging $23-25 or something like that so not that much more actually than 15 euros $21) but these are easy to make IME in Italy and flexibility is a goal for me at least.

As for TGV reservations and pass, there have been reports of problems getting on the Paris-Avignon-Nice TGV line as there seems to be an allotment of pass reservations given out and at times i have verified reports of the ticket window saying no pass but we'll sell you a regular ticket. so if that train is integral in scheduling you may want to reserve ahead. (Though there are other ways - like reserving to lyon then taking locals to Avignon or to Marseille then local to Nice, etc.)

Generally reservations can be made easily in Europe at less cost with a few exceptions so i'd wing it and make reservations when arriving in a city for outward trip.

With your pass be sure to get the Eurail Timetable given out free with passes and this indicates exactly what trains require reservations and which do not. If they don't require reservations they can always hop on.

For passes and reservations and any questions answered i also recommend BETS (800-441-2387; www.budgeteuropetravel.com - for their expertise and willingness to answer questions.

MarieC

PalenQ, thank you very much for the info. They are traveling Paris to Nice and because of your information about a possible problem obtaining a reservation with a rail pass I did go ahead and buy reservations for them both. I agree with you about being flexible and considering alternative routes. But they are relatively inexperienced and do have a fixed itinerary so I am willing to spend a bit more to insure they are on the train we anticipate them taking.

hopscotch

MarieC,

The Thomas Cook Timetable will cost less than the reservations. It ships from England priority post and will be in your hands in two weeks.

I'm maybe a "million-miler" on European trains. Normally I only reserve a seat when required. But I do make reservations for Fridays and Sundays on popular routes, and I make the reservations in Europe where the normal cost is €3, about $4. The only time I had to stand was at Christmas time in Italy.

I'll be interested to hear back after your daughters' trip whether they needed the reservations. Bon voyage to both.

julieann

bookmarking

PalenQ

I'd like to hear from other folks with passes who have made reservations in Europe - any problems, etc. or like hopscotch and myself rarely a problem except in the few cases i and he mention.

MarieC

Hopscotch, I will ask them to make note. At this point, they do not have reservations on the Nice to Venice train and as far as I can tell, none are required. If I am correct about this, I think I will leave it to them whether to obtain them or not when they get to France. If no reservations are required, the worst that can happen is they'll have to stand for a time. Hopefully not, since the first leg of that journey is Nice to Milan and it takes a while.
Thanks to both Hopscotch and PalenQ for all your input.

PalenQ

The few direct Nice-Milan "Riviera" trains do require reservations and some Milan-Venice trains do as well. Again the free Eurail Timetable that you should be sure they get with the pass indicates this and other trains on which reservations are required. I think they could make these reservations even in Paris earlier but don't think they'd have a problem making them on site in Nice.

TimS

The timetables at www.bahn.de indicate which trains require reservations and which do not.

PalenQ

Yes - as there are relatively few direct Nice-Milan trains you can also hop locals to Ventimiglia, the first station in Italy, then pass thru Customs check (i know both in Schengen but i recently had my passport checked during this transfer) and then IC or regional trains to Milan but these take quite a bit longer - also some ICplus trains but those require reservations. So do as TimS recommends and print out timetables from the fine www.bahn.de site to check. The Eurail timetable i mention would only give Nice-Milan trains that are fastest, not nearly all the possible links.

hopscotch

MarieC,

I would use the EuroNight from Nice to Venice. My Thomas Cook TT for last year shows a Nice departure at 2107 (9:07 PM) with arrival at Venezia Santa Lucia at 0736. Each bunk would probably be in the €30 to €40 range. Couchettes are sex segregated and you are expected to sleep in your clothes. The doors lock well. There will normally be a conductor in every other car in his/her office near one door.

In second class there are T4 (4 bunk) couchettes. I love night trains. You save a day of travel and the cost is reasonable. Bring a picnic on board.

For night trains you do need to reserve a bunk so they should make the reservation as soon as they arrive in Paris. If they find unpleasant roommates they can usually get the conductor to move them to another couchette.

PalenQ

MarieC - buy them a copy of Let's Go Europe for a Bon Voyage gift - this is an invaluable book for young travelers - written by students from Harvard - been around for years - the best clues on accommodations on a youthful budgets. in every major bookstore.

PalenQ

<If they find unpleasant roommates they can usually get the conductor to move them to another couchette.>

like the time on the Granada to Barcelona night train when a French guy (thank God he wasn't an American) all disheveled with two small kids with him entered the compartment stinking to high hell - nobody could stand it and when the conductor came by he couldn't either and moved the reeking Frenchie and kids to another compartment.