Hello all,

I am graduating this May and, along with two friends of mine, am planning on going backpacking through western Europe right after graduation for about 3-4 weeks. We are hoping to visit Spain, France, Italy and if time and budget allow, Greece. Although we have a rough itinerary of the cities we would like to visit, we, for the most part, are ill prepared.

I know that, generally, making an impromptu backpacking trip to Europe is half the fun of traveling, but I would like to cover a few basics so that we can a.) save as much money as possible and b.) make the most of the little time we have to travel.

With that said, I have a few questions that perhaps you travel savvy folk can help me out with!

1.) Should we purchase round trip airfare from one city, and travel in a circle venturing back to our original destination? Or, would purchasing "open jaw" tickets be more efficient? Which would be cheaper?
2.) EuroRail tickets are vital, I'm sure. Where/when should I purchase them?
3.) Should I purchase my in-Europe flights before I leave the US or while I'm in Europe?
4.) Is traveling to Greece at this time a smart idea? I've been forewarned not to travel there now because of their horrible economic state, but should that fend off backpackers?
5.) Which backpacking guide books have you found to be the most reliable? I've read that Lonely Planet is a worthwhile read, but I'm open to other suggestions.
6.) What, ideally, should our budget be? I am thinking $3,000 (including airfare); is that doable? We are planning on staying in cheap (but safe) hostels, not dining lavishly and even have one or two places we could stay at for free through the hospitality of friends and friends of friends. We are also hoping to find a cheap(ish) flight to and from Europe through the many student flight discounts available.

For now, this is all I have, BUT if you are willing to shell out general advice about backpacking that doesn't necessarily target any of the questions I have, feel free to post it! I am eager to learn as much as I can before my trip.

Hope to hear from you all soon! Thanks so much for your time.

Rachel (D.C. area)

1) Choose based on affordability. Sometimes open-jaw is no more expensive.
2) It really depends on how much moving around you will do. You can probably search all of the point to point travel and compare to pass cost.
3) ?
4) No one can answer that really. I do think Spain-France-Italy is more than enough for 3 weeks.
5) I would check them out from the library, but you may not need an all inclusive guide. So much is online, just buy the ones that specifically appeal to you--I find it more valuable to read about the area I visit (for example, before Andalucia I read about the Reconquista). Or a really good art or museum guide might be your thing.
6) Without airfare, that would be plenty. Not sure, as it really depends on how much travel you do. Walking around a city for three days is cheap, but three train tickets may not be.

My general advice is to not do too much traveling. Staying in one area longer gives you more time to soak it up and gives you time to see smaller towns and not just hop from big city to big city. Enjoy the planning!

backpackeurope.com good info
seat61.com for rail pass almost always a rip off
you have to train 5 hours a day every pass day just to break even www.eurolines.com works better way cheaper if budget.
If not fly cheaper skyscanner.net
bootnall.com good indie thread for you
Most fly into LON generatorhostels.com
work around from there 50 euro/day cheap stays eats minimum
add xport on top of that if very careful $3-5K all in
eurocheapo.com great site for budget tips
columbusdirect.com insurance backpacker a must.
Greece probably will default this yeat so strikes unrest
possible I would still go just stay flexible.

Happy Travels!

There are currently two Fodors threads about backpacking that you may find useful:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...rope-alone.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...g-430722-2.cfm

You can also do a search in the "Search the Forums" box in the right upper part of the page for more info. Welcome to Fodors!

What a fun trip! Five or six months gives you plenty of time to plan.

My best advice is to think in terms of cities, not entire countries. "Italy" is broad and covers a lot of territory - Venice is different from Rome is different from Cinque Terre, and it takes half a day to get between them. The same applies to the other countries on your list. So narrow it down to the individual locations you want to visit, and that will help you plan better.

1.) Round trip vs. open jaw: Probably open-jaw - prices aren't usually that much different. Just play around with different combinations - into Paris, out of Rome; into Athens, out of Madrid; round trip Paris, etc. Ideally you won't have to backtrack, but if you do, consider the cost of doing so - if you fly round trip to Paris, but want to end up in Athens, you need to add in a day and the cost of your flight between the cities to know if the difference in cost is worth it.

2.) Eurail: Buy them in the States (you can't get them in Europe). Most likely they'll be cost-effective for you, but once you narrow down where you want to go, look at individual train and flight prices. The Eurail does give you flexibility - if you're in Florence and bored after two days, you can just hop on the train and go to Pisa or Bologna for the day and not worry about the cost.

3.) European flights: The budget airlines (Ryanair, Easyjet) work on a "cheapest seats go first" model, so the earlier you can commit, the cheaper they'll be. Do make sure you know the luggage and other restrictions - that's where they get you! Pack light.

4.) Traveling to Greece: I personally wouldn't worry about it, but I would pay attention to any news of strikes or anything like that, mostly just because it would throw a wrench into your travel plans. I'd still go if I really wanted to, though.

5.) Guidebooks: I liked Lonely Planet when I was backpacking (it's been awhile, but I think they're still good). Their Thorntree forum also has more backpackers than Fodor's does (Fodor's tends to skew middle-aged with higher budgets!).

6.) Budget: I did two weeks in Italy, inexpensively but not on a shoestring, and it was about $3000. I think by doing hostels and being careful you would be able to do three weeks for that, and possibly four if you get a good deal on plane tickets (1/3 of our budget!). The biggest costs are obviously your transatlantic ticket, transportation (a fixed cost if you only go by train and get a Eurail, but doing point-to-point tickets and intraeuropean flights will vary the cost a lot), and lodging. Once you know plane ticket costs and have a solid idea of generally where you want to go, you'll have a better idea.

Hello,

Thank you all very much for your quick responses! I am taking every bit of advice into account. Just to be more specific about where we're planning on traveling to, here's the tentative rundown: Madrid-Barcelona-Nice (then maybe Monte Carlo)-Milan-Tuscany (we were thinking Florence, what are your thoughts?)-Cinque Terre-Naples-Santorini.

Would that route be easy to follow? Or, is there a better way of getting around these 4 countries?

Thank you, again, so much!

Hi and welcome to Fodors! I took a couple backpacking trips in college and after graduation. It's hard to believe, but it's almost been 10 years since then - eek .

You've received some excellent advice above. I think that with 3 weeks, I'd definitely pick just a couple countries. You really do lose a lot of valuable time every time you move "bases" and you do not want to spend your entire trip on a train, in an airport, etc. Plus, all that moving around gets expensive. So, perhaps consider picking just a couple countries and seeing several cities in each thoroughly. Goodness, Italy could keep you busy for months, if not years!

The Eurail pass can definitely save you money but be aware that you may still have to purchase a supplemental reservation if you want to ride certain high speed trains and if you want a couchette or bed on an overnight train.

I liked the Let's Go guidebooks when I was backpacking in addition to the Lonely Planet books mentioned above.

Happy Planning!

P.S. To reply to just the Tuscany piece of your question, it isn't the easiest place to get around via public transportation (Florence being the exception with its bus terminal, train stations, and airport). If you want to visit the hill towns, you can do it via bus, but it will be time-consuming.

It's a big leap to go from Naples to Santorini. How do you propose accomplishing this and how many days will it take out of the time you have available? If you don't fly home out of Athens on an open jaw ticket you will definitely waste a lot of time getting back from Santorini to Madrid.

Out of curiosity, what made you pick those particular destinations? I ask because places like Naples and Milan aren't the most popular tourist spots for college students/grads. If we know the reasons you chose those, people might be able to make specific suggestions of what you might want to see or how to work your itinerary.

The order of your itinerary makes sense geographically, though the thing about Santorini is that you'll have to add in time to get there and then back to Athens or wherever else to fly home (whereas if you ended in Rome or Milan, for example, you're very near a major international airport, so you'd just take the train that morning).

I heard there wasn't much to see in Milan, so perhaps you might want to see Venice instead or another place between Florence-Cinque Terre-Naples. My friend and I did a 3 week trip around Italy and we ended up going to Bologna after Venice. It has a big university students population so it had a great, young vibe to it. We also ended up in Naples on a whim and really enjoyed it's grittiness and realness; and the side trip to Capri (+ Sorrento and Pompeii) wasn't bad either

As for guides, the Let's Go series focuses on a younger, more budget-minded travellers so you may want to check them out. The Rough Guides has a lot of info on non-mainstream tourist sights, which is good to see to get a real feel of a place.

Have you heard of CouchSurfing.com? Because you're travelling in a group it may be harder to secure a place, but it's also a good place to ask locals questions and maybe even have them as a "tour guide".

Budget wise - I usually budget $3000 for a 2 week trip (incl my airfare). Try to save as much as you can, Europe and travelling around can add up.

Happy planning!

Thanks again for your responses!

brotherleelove2004- I read that the flight from Naples to Santorini is about 2-3 hours, but includes a connecting flight in Athens. Is that correct?

Jent103- We chose these destinations at random; mostly, they're just places we've all wanted to visit. We chose Nice because we figured visiting a city in southern France would make it easier to both fly into from Spain and leave for Italy. We know it's an expensive city, which is why we only chose one city in France as opposed to two. Is there another city in France you'd suggest we visit instead?

Jomagpie- One of my friends who is traveling with me has a friend who lives in Milan, so we're going to both see the city, see her friend and have a free place to crash for a few days.

As for Greece, we have heard wonderful things about Santorini. Would flying to Athens from Santorini and then flying back home be really problematic? Or, we might adjust our schedule and travel in a circle landing back in our original spot so we can purchase round trip airfare- we haven't yet decided. If we have to purchase open jaw tickets, however, should we hit up another city in Greece instead?

Thanks again for all of your input! It's very much appreciated.

Any flight from Italy to Santorini will come with a stop and plane change in Athens. Making all those connections isn't necessarily problematic, just time-consuming. If you do buy open jaw tickets and you want to go to Santorini, then make Athens your target or waste more time getting there from Thessaloniki.

Have you checked out Lonely Planet's Thorn Tree? There are many more backpackers and young travelers on that forum/website: http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/index.jspa.

You might also want to check out the International Student ID card, which gives you discounts on some attractions and museums: www.isic.org

You are probably better off with an open jaw ticket, even if it is a bit more expensive. That way you are not backtracking just to fly out.

Good luck!

Why don't you calculate the cost of a regular ticket + other transportation costs to get back to that airport vs an open jaw? If the difference is only a hundred or so bucks, then it'll be worth it than all the hassle of backtracking.

Sorry, one more. Check http://www.vueling.com/EN/ for inexpensive flights from Madrid or Barcelona, looks like they fly to Nice and Milan, and even Greece!

tentek- Not yet, but I'll be sure to check it out! Thanks!

jomagpie- Wow, that's a great find, thank you so much! I'll be sure to share that site with my two traveling companions.

Everyone has been such a great help. And for those of you who might have even more fantastic advice for me, please be sure to share!

Whatever you decide be sure to duplicate your documents and credit cards. Leave a copy with someone at home and put a copy of them to yourself on your email. Adult Daughter, studying in Spain, had all of her stuff stolen in Geneva train station at Christmas time and having the copies made a terrible situation easier. Keep your stuff attached to you at all times not just beside you and a money belt under your clothes!! Also if you get rail tickets do it before you graduated you still qualify for student fees..Have a wonderful time..BTW I would skip Athens this year, even last year it was tense around Sintagma Square and will probably be the same or worse this year.

<i>Is there another city in France you'd suggest we visit instead?</i>

The obvious choice would be Paris, which will have flights to and from Madrid/Barcelona and several places in Italy. However, it's your trip! Maybe Paris doesn't appeal to you. I haven't been to Nice so can't really compare the two. Basically all I'm saying is that there's no need to limit yourselves to Nice if you plan on flying anyway.

Since you'll be in Milan for a few days, it sounds like, you might check out some day trips - for example, Varenna on Lake Como is an easy one (from central Milan, anyway).

for rail pass almost always a rip off
you have to train 5 hours a day every pass day just to break even>

misinformation you should totally ignore - really some of the very worst uninformed drivel one could post - many railpasses are good deals even if you travel just a few hours each pass day - so investigate regular fares and compare to the railpass and just IGNORE anything that poster says about railpasses - for lots of great info - good useful info - check out these fantastic European rail sites - www.budgeteuropetreavel.com; www.seat61.com and www.ricksteves.com. For schedules I always use the Wunderbar German Railways official site - www.bahn.de - schedules for all European trains it seems and the easiest I have to use.