Airplane seatback device
 

Have you seen these seat devices that fit on the backs of the seat facing you so that person cannot push his seat back into your territory?

Wow. I'm not sure what to think of these. I saw the travel guy, Greenburg, on the Today Show and just caught a second of him demonstrating them. He said he isn't saying he endorses them but they are legal.

I wouldn't use one. I wouldn't want to get in a conflict with another passanger. Am I wrong?

There have been many debates on here about leaning the seats back vs. not leaning the seats back, so I'm sure you will get lots of heated replies. I, personally, believe that if a person pays for a seat on a plane, they should be allowed to lean their seats back, but its all just a matter of personal opinion.

I agree with tcreath. Although I don't like it when the person in front of me leans back, I do not complain because I respect their right to do so. By the same token, I expect the person behind me to respect my right to lean back, especially on a long flight when I'm trying to sleep.

Many debates here as someone pointed out.

I would gladly stand by and allow anyone to pulverize Greenburg if he attempted to use on on a plane.

He says they are legal? Do you believe the airlines endorse their use? They may very well be some sort of evacuation/safety hazard.

On an international flight I took a few weeks ago, I had my revenge on the idiot in front of me who fully reclined. Once she reclined into my lap, I just turned on my overhead light. Worked very well because they had just darkened the cabin. Yes, I am passive aggressive.

I have no problem with someone fully reclining if the person in front of them does it, because otherwise they have no room. Otherwise, you're an insensitive jerk.

Intrepid, yes I'd like to know more about these devices. I only saw a second of it and it's the first time I've heard of them. They looked like little plastic clippy things which hold the seat in front od you in it's position.

I was wondering if anyone else knew about them.

Ann: As someone travels very frequently I can tell you that, since I purchased the seat reservation, I am fully within my rights to lean back (all the way) and get some rest. I probably have a meeting to go to when i reach my destination so I NEED the sleep. In these days of corporate cutbacks, I unfortunately usually need to fly coach unless I'm flying for more than 8 hours. Try to understand that when next you travel

What does "legal" mean? It means there are no federal, state or local laws against it, but it does not mean that you have a legal right to use them wherever you want. Many airlines already banned these things and there is an easy way to get rid of one if you happen to be the "receiver" of the blocked seat. Just report to the FA that your seat does not seem to work properly and within minutes the gadget will be pulled by the FA or the FA will ask the person that put it there to remove it. It avoids any confrontation and the person behind you just realized they payed money for another useless gadget.

It's a waste of money, but if anybody wants to find out more, here it is:

http://www.kneedefender.com/

This goes back to basic common courtesy. ask or at least glance behind before pushing your seat back all the way; if someone is working on a laptop or trying to drink something, you could cause a problem. also, please be aware that the person behind you may be tall and their knees may be at the back of the seat already with no nasty intention.

Yeah, Ann! LeanBack Leo has purchased one space on the plane not one and a half. That is what happens when he leans all the way back. I too shall shine the light of passive aggressive truth on the next klutz who has to sleep horizontally at my expense.

Please see my post of a few minutes ago re the most irritating person I had to put up with. In sum I suggested morgue-like slabs be substituted for the space now used for "kitchens".

Anthony

It doesn't sound like the knee defenders are an acceptable solution, and I don't know what is. However, for every person who can't sleep without reclining their seat, there is another person (that would be me) who can't sleep with the seat in front reclined into their space. Reclining my own seat does not help. It isn't a question of who paid for the space, since I can make an argument that I paid for the right to remain upright to counter the argument that you paid for the space into which the seat reclines in my lap. We both think we have a right to that space. Neither one of us is right. The only way to resolve this is to use common sense and courtesy in dealing with other people.

Of course that becomes difficult when we are all squished together in coach. The same thing happens when you put too many rats in a cage.

I've never tried it myself, but I have an acquaintance who swears by carrying small packets of black pepper when she flys. If someone reclines into her lap on a daytime flight, she takes a little snort of it and sneezes on the offender repeatedly.

I saw her do it once, and I have to say that it got pretty instant results. The guy waited about 30 minutes after she stopped sneezing and fully reclined again; so she did it again. The second time he appeared to get the message.

Why are seats MADE to recline if the person is not supposed to recline them? And, Pleeeeease, they in no way recline that far back as to go into someone's lap! That's just rediculous. Two to three inches, tops. I have never minded if someone in front of me reclines their seat. And it has never made me unconfortable.

I agree with CD.

I always move back verry sloowwwllly, after asking if the person behind me minds.

(If they say, "Yes, I do", I ask "why?".)

This is bound to cause all sorts of controversy. There was a thread about these devices that got closed after it turned nasty. Here's the old thread: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34454123

I like Ann's suggestion and I agree with Nikki "It isn't a question of who paid for the space, since I can make an argument that I paid for the right to remain upright to counter the argument that you paid for the space into which the seat reclines in my lap" Exactly. I have found what works best is if someone leans all the way back, I politely ask if we could come to a compromise and they only lean their seat back halfway. It has worked. Only a jerk would argue with that. Unfortunately, there are too many out there and after that, there isn't much you can do.

I am happy to make the argument that the space one has purchased includes the space into which one reclines one's seat. I always try to be considerate as well, but why is your right to work on a laptop, for example, more sacred than my right to recline and sleep?

If someone behind me put one of those devices on the seat so I could not recline, I would have the flight attendant there faster than you could say "Put your seatbacks in the upright position." I have no doubt that the person behind me would be asked to remove the device.

Maybe I've just been lucky, but in literally millions of miles of air travel, I have never once had a problem with this topic. Yes, I am about 5'3", so my knees are not already hitting the seat in front of me. I'm sympathetic to you taller folk, but you know, this is about the only time when being short is an advantage. Nobody taller moves out of the way when I want to see a parade, believe me!

I understand that people wants to be comfortable when they travel.However, they should be considerate also to the people behind them..even if it is their rights to have their seat reclined especially during the long overseas flight.

But Courtesy and Considerations toward others are unwritten rules that a person should follow more often,it would make the world a better place.

You could always ask the person reclining to move their seat up just for a moment so you can get the air sickness bag out of the seat back. that might give them pause to be blocking your exit to a washroom as well.

I think all this hostility should be directed at the airlines and the Department of Transportation. In-fighting among passengers accomplishes nothing.

I'm assuming these people who wear these defenders, use lights in an agressive manner or whatever - never ever feel the need to recline their own seat no matter what the circumstances.

As for the person who inhales black pepper to cause a sneezing fit so as to annoy their fellow travellers, well no wonder we have air rage with cretins like this aboard.
This reminds me of the person who boasted that they didn't wash when they travelled on trains so as to avoid having people sitting next to them.

ps....Marilyn your comments are wonderful! At last someone speaking up for those of us shorter than 6 foot!

NO ONE has addressed this question. If the seats are not to be reclined, why are they built to recline?

Maybe the seats are built to recline only when doing so doesn't deprive the guy or gal behind you of their own "rights" on an airplane.

I'm short, so a reclining seat in front of me never bothered me, and I recline myself. But I raise my seat when meals arrive and when the person behind me has to get out to go to the bathroom or stretch their legs to avoid DVT.

If it's a matter of "balancing" rights, I don't think it's too much to ask that a seat be raised for the short period of time it takes someone to eat a meal or use the bathroom. If the person in front shows at least that much curtesy, I think can refrain from sneezing on them the rest of the flight.

Whilst I agree that a reclined seat makes it a little bit more difficult to get out from your seat, with teh hinging mechanism on the tables I can't say I've ever noticed a problem eating from a table when the seat in front of me is reclined.

What airlines do you people fly where coach seats recline THAT far back to be in someone's lap?? I'd really like to know since I generally fly one airline and its' seats do not recline more than a few inches, as CD pointed out.

The man in front of me on my last flight jerked his seat back so hard that it spilled my coffee. It wasn't the fact that he put his seat back that was annoying but the way he did it.

I tapped him on the shoulder and said I am still eating would you mind lifting your seat up a little and he did. It is a matter of courtesy on both sides of the seatback.

The man (the one I mentioned on another thread) across the aisle from me wedged his beer bottle from his tray to the notch which keeps the tray shut and the woman in front of him could lean back but not all the way down. I think I will do that from now on when I am eating so the person in front of me can't scald me with spilled coffee.

"'I'm short, so a reclining seat in front of me never bothered me, and I recline myself."

Interesting. I have not done a scientific survey, but I do fly often, mostly for business, and it seems to me that many short people do recline all the way (maybe because they don't know what a pain it is for a taller person like myself).

Conversely, I see that a good percentage of taller people do not recline or just recline a little bit because they know how uncomfortable it can be for that person behind them.

Yes, it is your right to recline, but using a little common sense and a little consideration would be nice.

Personally, I don't recline, but always go into the flight with the mind set that the person in front of me always will recline. When they don't, I am pleasantly surprised. When they do, well there's always an extra bottle of wine I can drink that can ease that pain while listening to my IPOD.
((H))

What I wanted to know when I posed the question (if you'd bother to look) is have anyone heard of these devises. It wasn't a discussion about how you feel about reclining seats. (Though that subject may never be exhausted!)

FF Flyer answered my question. The FA will simply take the device out for you, apparently. Of course, some may not think to ask one to do that. Here's the article/advertisement FF provided:

When we find ourselves into the limited legroom space of a coach seat offered by many airlines, a seat in front of us that is poised to recline is a collision waiting to happen – with our knees serving as bumpers.

Knee Defender™ to the rescue.

With Knee Defender™, the "Tall Guy" – tall men and tall women, both – can now use a simple, convenient, pocket-sized device to help defend against most flying seatbacks. And because Knee Defenders™ are adjustable, you can generally set them to provide only as much protection as you need.


Knee Defenders™ are sold

and used in pairs.

To read the actual quote (in pop-up window), click on graphic.


DVT is also a concern when you fly. Knee Defender™ can help you keep the space you need to do in-seat exercises, such as foot lifts and knee lifts, which are recommended to promote healthy blood flow to help protect against DVT (deep vein thrombosis). DVT, sometimes called "economy class syndrome", involves a potentially dangerous blood clot that can develop in the leg.

Having enough room to move around while still seated is important because in-seat exercising is often the only in-flight exercise option available to promote healthy circulation. This is especially true now that security agencies are imposing new limits on passenger access to the aisles, even during extended international flights.

If the airlines will not protect people from being battered, crunched, and immobilized – very real problems according to healthcare professionals, medical studies, government agencies, and even some airlines – then people need options to protect themselves.

Until there is something better – or even just something else – there is Knee Defender™.

When I fly I just sort of assume the worse. No, I am not a pessimist but there is always annoyances with flying, from security (I always get pulled aside) to late departures, to irritating passengers etc.

So I take a good book or two as I can fortunatly pretty much blank out the world with a good book.

And if all goes well, than I am pleasantly surprised. Air travel is not what it was years ago. But than a lot of society is not anymore. Manners and consideration seems to have gone down hill. So I try to just mentally zero in on the considerate people and ignore the rest. This way I do seem to find a lot of considerate people.

Happy travels to all.

can we have the names of those airlines with such generous reclining seats?? i, too, would like to know!

"As someone who travels very frequently I can tell you that, since I purchased the seat reservation, I am fully within my rights to lean back (all the way)."

While that is probably true, it still doesn't make a person with that attitude very considerate of their fellow passengers. I bet that the people who insist on putting their seats all the way back are the first ones to complain about a large passenger encroaching in their space.

As a tall person, who frequently has to travel in coach, I can tell you that it can be very uncomfortable to have someone in the seat in front of you fully recline their seat. Sometimes people are reasonable and accomodating, other times they are not. I've actually seen people argue with a FA when asked to move their seat up so that the person behind them can eat their meal. Just because you feel something is "within your rights," doesn't mean you should be rude or inconsiderate.

I kind of look at it the way LoveItaly does. This kind of attitude is symptomatic of the way a part of our society is heading - people who are just in it for themselves and to heck with the other guy. To the considerate ones out there, thank you.

OK, cd, I'll address your question. Just because something is capable of being used in a particular way does not mean that it is good or right to use it that way all the time. Your car is designed to go faster than 100 miles per hour, but you won't have your speeding ticket rescinded by the judge when you point that out in court.

There are circumstances in which it is a good idea to recline the seat as far as it is capable of reclining, and there are circumstances when it is not. When the rows were further apart, the fully reclined seat infringed much less on the person behind it. If the seat behind you is vacant, no problem. If it is occupied by a large person and reclining will make that person uncomfortable, it is a good idea to compromise. Neither person's comfort trumps the other one's comfort.

There are many comments here from people who are not uncomfortable when a person reclines in front of them. Good, I'm happy for you, but that doesn't mean that the rest of us are making our discomfort up.

This is a problem caused by the design of the aircraft and not by the passengers themselves. The situation pits us against each other, and we must behave as civilized people to cope with it.

Giselle, it may be that you only wanted answers to one question, but there is no way to control a discussion once you have posted your remarks. It is also very difficult to discuss the knee defenders without discussing the situation which gives rise to their use.

I don't mind when the person in front of me reclines their seat on an overnight flight - after the meal has been served. Afterall, everyone is trying to catch a few winks.

What ticks me off is when someone reclines their seat on a daytime flight just for the heck of it - with no consideration for the person behind them. Let's face it - there is no way those seats can be considered comfortable. Reclining them a few inches doesn't make them any more comfortable.

I'm 5'9" and the lack of legroom I can deal with. I can't stand to have the seatback 5" from my face - it's so claustrophobic! Even makes reading difficult.

Giselle, to your original question: No, you are not wrong in wanting to avoid conflict with another passenger. But you might be very wrong, and thereby cause harm or discomfort for yourself, if you don't take action to defend your own right to the shared space between you and the passengers both ahead and behind. For those behind, you should always (as already advised) at least glance back and ask or imply that you are about to recline your seat. For those ahead, you might try the following, which has worked unerringly for me: At the time the passengers are allowed to release seat belts and/or recline, lean forward and ask the person ahead of you to let you know if he/she intends to recline so you can get out of the way. I've had to do this many times because at 6 feet 2 inches, I can't find any room for my knees even with the seat ahead in a full upright position. It takes me a bit of adjusting to get my knees out of the way when a person ahead of me reclines his/her seatback. I've found that a little bit of courtesy can be contagious, and it avoids the instant agony that comes from some person ahead of you slamming the seat back all the way, quickly and without warning. There should be something written in the passenger information cards (not that anyone reads them) that asks passengers to be considerate when reclining.

So that's the way I have (almost) solved my problem. But heaven help me when there is a brat in the seat behind me who kicks incessantly on the back of my seat, with a parent who seems not to care. That's when I lose it.

I really don't understand the problem with people reclining their seats in front of you. I'm not a little guy, and when someone in front of me reclines all the way back it doesn't put them in my face or on my lap. I guess some of the folks posting here must have HUGE horse faces or be giants. The exception is during meals--something about having that seat hanging over my tray of slop bothers me.

Lean back. What do you mean. I haven't had a airline seat "lean" back since 1975. You must be confusing it with Amtrak. Now they "lean". Now you just change the angle about 3 degrees and if you are old enough to remember you "imagine " you are reclined...LOL...Everyone is trying to get where they are going with their nerves still intact..Now if you want to talk about something really iritating lets talk about the perfume and aftershave people bath in before they fly. As if we all want to smell some nasty perfume. If you don't like the way you smell TAKE A BATH ! Don't impose your stench on the rest of the cabin. Now multiply it by 50 different fragrances and mix it all together. EYE WATERING BARFF BAG.....But hey, you're going to Paris so I guess I should get used to the smell....LOL

Have a nice trip,

"LEANER"

Solutions:

- Fly first class, business class, or premium economy

- Fly Ryanair

- Fly enough so you get <b>high</b> elite status with your favorite airline, and get bulkhead/exit-row seats. [Or the Economy+ seats on UA.]

- Fly AA when they still have extra pitch in some of their planes

- Recline your own seat. Nobody can stop you from doing that.

- Go to sleep. You can't see or feel the seat in front of you when you're unconscious.

When I fly I am paying for a seat with room for my knees. The person in front of me has no right to my space.

Twice over the years I've had irate passengers in front of me voice complaints when I blocked their full recline. Let them find another seat with nobody behind it if they want to fully recline.

Giselle, <i>What I wanted to know when I posed the question (if you'd bother to look) is have anyone heard of these devises. It wasn't a discussion about how you feel about reclining seats. </i>

Actually, I did bother to look. You also asked if you are wrong in not wanting to get in a conflict with other passengers. Considering that the issue of potential conflict is entirely about their desire to recline their seat, I think your post definitely asks at least indirectly how we feel about reclining seats.

All,

This is an interesting thread because of all the travel I've done, I remember only one problem with this issue and it was very recently. Prior to that, I've never considered not reclining my seat and I've never had an issue with anyone reclining their seat.

On a recent trip I reclined my seat and it really bothered the guy behind me. He let me know. When I saw how tall he is, a point he mentioned to me, I realized that a reclined seat in front of him HAD to be a significant problem. From now on I hope to be more aware of the potential issue involved.