Coach seats really are NOT designed to recline far enough back to be in the lap of the person behind you, but broken seats will certainly do so, and seat-breakers abound.

"Seat-breakers" are what I call those folks who keep bouncing their seatbacks violently backward. They are obviously attempting to force the seat to slip past the normal stop point, and they often succeed. Once they manage this, the seat usually won't stay upright anymore w/ weight in it.

I'm generally not a recliner except on night flights, but FA's tell me to put my seatback up all the time. The thing is that half the time I can't, because with the slightest weight against it, the seat won't come all the way upright. Broken seat.

hopscotch: <i>My defense since then has been to jam my knees up against the seat in front of me so that it can't recline.</i> You might want to rethink that strategy. I recently tried to recline my seat and it wouldn't budge. So I kept trying. Thinking that I might figure out what was wrong if I stood up and turned around to examione the seat, I realized that the guy behind me was doing exactly what you are suggesting. When he explained how tall he is and the problem that occurs if I recline my seat, I offered to refrain from reclining but also explained that I would have appreciated it if he had simply asked me not to. You might try having a polite discussion with the person in front of you. Though there is a tendency for everyone, especially travellers, to notice the inconsiderate people, I believe most people really are very understanding and rather generous in such situations.

Traveler863: <i>Then there's that idiot on a short daytime flight that as soon as we are airborne throws it back, now thats obnoxious. </i>

That being the case, I'm obnoxious. I'm uncomfortable sitting straight up. As I type this message, I'm leaning back in my chair because I'm otherwise uncomfortable.

<i>Also doesn't it annoy anyone else when the person behind you goes to get up and grabs the back of your seat and then you get catapulted! Especially if a long flight and you're asleep! Now thats obnoxious!</i>

No, I don't think it's obnoxious. Instead, it's understandable. When we're not in the aisle seat, trying to get out of the chair and climb over the knees of the people sitting next to us is darned near impossible without grabbing the seat that is reclined in front of us. I've had my seat grabbed lots of times and it's perfectly understandable in my mind.

ET hope you read some of the subsequent posts to enlighten you -- although your lack of ability to relate to other's problems is probably deep-seated, so to speak. Try this: Short people, tall people, people with back or neck problems, pregnant women, people with abdomenal problems for whom compression over long periods of time is inadvisable (e.g., some kinds of reflux), people with breathing problems for whom compression for long periods of time is inadvisable, etc. etc. etc.

If you still can't quite wrap your imagination around the problem, I prescribe being strapped upright in a ladder-back chair to watch all the episodes of the Nanny, at top volume! (This will do double duty for those who think cellphones should be unrestricted on planes!)

A few facts for those who recline and complain about the person behind them grabbing onto the seatback to get out of their seat. The average coach seat has a seat pitch (the measurement from the back of the seat in front of you to the back of your seat of 31-32&quot;. Subtracting the thickness of the seatback and the depth of the seat itself, your left with about 12-13&quot; between the back of the seat in front of you and the front of your seat. When a person reclines, their seatback goes back from 5-7&quot;. That means that any tall or large person has to stand up at an angle to get out of their seat. This is almost impossible without grabbing on the seatback in front of them.

Soccr:
While I am sure that there are some flyers such as you describe, most of those who recline don't fit that category. For those that don't fit that description, it would still show a lot more consideration for fellow passengers if they didn't recline, especially on shorter, daylight flights. Do you disagree?

Got to love Ann41's logic:

1) By fully reclining, you're an idiot.

2) It's OK to fully recline if the person (idiot) in front of you has reclined -- the domino theory revisited.

Stunning, absolutely stunning.

The ``idiot'' did something well within her rights. If the cabin lights were turned down, the airline was obviously encouraging slumber. If the ``idiot'' was bothering Ann, and Ann didn't try to mediate, then her passive aggressive act was far more discourteous than the reclining.

WOW ..... This is actually a debate ! ? ! I have always considered myself very considerate of others , have actually been told so many times . I am always overly concerned with others feelings and also what they think . WELL , guess what , I put my seat back , NO , not during take - off , nor during meals . But ..., when I please otherwise . It was never a huge deal to me when a passenger did the same in front of me , big deal , I adjust my book , he has the right . BUT , now I am an idiot , inconsiderate ,insensitive jerk , blah blah blah .... incredible ! I had no idea this was an issue and thats the truth . Will I put my seat back next time I fly ? Yup .... I will . If the chap in front of me does the same , no problem . Bigger things to complain about . Faith

Faith, I just have to ask, you're not by any chance our own faithonholiday from some months ago, are you?

Faith
Until coming to Fodor's, I had no idea this was an issur either. I am sure others are in the same boat. I sit in my seat, I can recline a couple of inches, I had NO idea it made some people angry! I still don't get why a few inches would make a difference to one behind you.

Marilyn , faithonholiday , no , that was not me . I post as faithie because Faith , my real name , was unavailable . Why ? Was she or he notorious !!!? lol , perhaps I s hould say yes ! Faith . CD , I am still baffled ,....... Faith .

Whether or not your are a &quot;habitual recliner&quot;, this topic has at least made many travelers aware of different points of view. That, in and of itself, is a good thing.

To Marilyn and CD , I just went back and read both your previous posts on this issue , seems we generally agree , and guess what , .... we dont read like jerks or idiots either . Message , keep politely reclining !!!! Happy Travels , Faith , who would love to be on holiday !

Faith, some thought she was a troll, but others, including myself, were very amused by her travel dilemmas. Try searching for her by name and see if you can find the threads about going to Venice with her cousin Bambi.

Kay, the periodic discussions of this topic here have definitely made me more aware and considerate. I now look back before I recline and try to make the person behind me aware that I'm about to put the seat back. Before, I can't say I ever thought much about it, although as I said earlier, no one ever complained. I would have been compassionate if anyone had ever had a problem.

Had to post again , simply was stronger than me , Thought I would add that I am tall , and have also had a DVT ( deep vein thrombosis ) so I am always aware of the need to move my legs , And guess what , even flying coach , with a seat reclined in front of me , with my long legs , I have never had a problem . Food for thought from a happy recliner ..... Faith

I don't have a legroom problem when the seatback in front of me goes down - I just stretch my legs out under the seat. I just don't like having the seatback so close to my face when the seat is reclined. It's so claustrophobic - especially if you get stuck in the dreaded center seat.

It seems that MOST airlines don't have their coach seats reclining as much as they did several years ago. It use to be recidulous, but now they just go back several(6 to 10 inches???),,,even on overseas flights. We fly mostly on American, Continental, and recently Air France., so don't know about tahe other airlines. I don't think anyone (myself included) really likes to have the seat in front reclining, but isn't that a person's right, as it is YOUR right also)?. I always ask the flight attendant (or the person in fron themselves) if they could please raise the seat upright during food service, and have never had a problem.

I have to say that it bothers me when a person just slams the seat down in front of me, it is just a rude way to do it, like I am not even there, a mere foot or so behind him. When you are shorter the top of the seat is about even with your face so even though our legs can go onder the seat our face is inches from the person's skull.

Like I posted earlier, I have pleasantly asked the person to at least wait until I am through eating before they put their head in my lap, well I don't say it that way, but I am thinking it.

I have even asked the person behind me if they have enough room as I recline my seat. We are all in those flying metal tubes together, can't we all just get along?

Jack, yes, I disagree. Logic will tell you that unless I've only ever sat in a bulkhead seat, I've been &quot;reclined on&quot; as often as I've reclined. I'm not thrilled with those who fully recline, especially if I have to get out of the seat or eat; and as a matter of personal practice, I don't recline fully on those short flights.

Logic also is on the side of not assuming that reclining is more discourteous than being forced not to recline.

Logic is also on the side of suggesting that you have no way of knowing whether any of the conditions are involved (other than pregnancy, obesity or the visible neck brace), nor of knowing with a certainty what percentage of all passengers would be more uncomfortable being forced to sit upright versus forced to have someone recline into them.

I remain firmly in the camp of those who believe it should be 50-50 -- space, courtesy, assumptions, and all.

This is a discouraging thread. It seems like the flight over to Europe will be filled with disgruntled people tusseling over the seat backs.

I read that alot of you agonize over the probability of offending people in foreign lands so how about on airplanes, does your courtesy start when you land? Do you battle over seats and seatmates only to emerge from the airport with a change of attitude? For every one of you who worries about offending a waiter by ordering cappucino after noon two of you are thinking about the seats on the flight home?

Now did I say that my seatback was yanked upon by the passenger behind me when my seat was fully reclined? Absolutly not and in fact more often it is used as a stand up device when my seat if fully erect, which is usually the case if not on a long overseas flights and I'm trying to sleep!!
My issue is obnoxous passengers using my seat to stand up because its just plain easier than using their armrests to push themselves up...for move obnovious and unthinking than anything else while flying!!!!

I usually fly American to Europe, and the seats don't go back far enough to cause a problem - at least I've never thought so. I recline to sleep, (well, TRY to sleep) and everyone else seems to recline, too. American has more leg room in economy class, so maybe that helps, too. Anyway, I'm surprised at this thread. As someone else said, why would they make reclining seats if you can't recline them?? I never imagined this to be a problem - and I fly quite often.

Sue,
Yes AA has great leg room but its only temporary, they now from the crunch have to crunch as well. That is where leg room and reclining is of biggest issue. I was once on a UA flight to west coast and reclined on a night flight and heard a scream of pain from behind me, I quickly righted my seat and dealt as myself was knees shoved into the seat in front of me, and I'm not tall! So it all depends on the situation, the airline, config, etc!

I would like to make a comment about 'Margie's' post.....I work for a cell phone company and last time I checked you can not use phones on places...various reasons. One is there are no towers in the air (very hard on the signal) Second hmm can we say interference with airline equipment. No not enough to make the plane crash but it can interfere. Just had to put my two cents in. By the way the whole reclining thing is a touchy issue. I dont fly often so I guess when I do it does not bother me. If I was frequent flyer I am pretty sure I would have a whole different perspective

About 10 years ago, in the days before they installed seat back videos, Singapore Airlines would ask everyone to recline their seats on overnight flights so that people could easily watch the movie.

I think people need to relax a bit more on their flights and not sweat the small stuff ! Now , not only is it an issue of offending someone by putting a seat back , but also possibly offending them if you touch their seat while trying to stand .Please ...... do you really , really , think this makes them obnoxious , rude , unthinking , etc. , etc. ??? I like to believe people are generally good , and if someone uses my seat to help himself up , well....... BIG DEAL , has it hurt me , caused bodily harm ,they are not out to get me when they put their seat back or use it to assist them in standing . I truly absolutely fail to see the issue with this . Loosen the neckties , and un-do the top buttons , there are more important things to gripe about . Faith

How tall are you, Faith?

A solution to this issue is for airlines to offer reclining and non-reclining sections just like they used to in the bad old days of smoking and no smoking sections. In no reclining the seats would be locked upright so no cheating would be possible.

I am in the anti-reclining camp for reasons that have already been well stated but observe that many people like (need?) to recline. Peacefull co-existance through separation.

I am not holding my breath while I wait for this to become reality.

OMG this thread is giving me nightmares! That settles it, I'm going to use all my FF miles to upgrade to first class on my next overseas flight!
; )

Hopscotch , I am 5,9 ? My husband is much taller , never heard him complain . My issue is with how intense the anti-seatback group is . To clump people who put their seats back into a group , calling them idiots , jerks , etc. If you go back and read the posts you will see the remarks are rather hostile , and IMO an over-reaction to a small issue . Faith

OOPS !! Almost forgot , rude , selfish , and we do not have an ounce of courtesy ...... . And by the way , if after the meal I did attempt to put my seat back and the passenger behind me RAMMED their knees against it , I would have to say that would be a bit un-thinking . If that same person would simply and politely explain they were very tall and were un-comfortable , I am very certain a polite compromise could be reached between two civil , mature , adults . Faith