A Terrible Idea
 

Back in August, I had a terrible idea. My husband and I are considering starting our family in 2006 (no, that's not the terrible idea!), and I thought it would be appropriate to have one last hurrah, so to speak, before we become parents. I was thinking of a trip to Italy.

To be more specific, I was thinking of a looong trip to Italy, like a month or so, in which we'd travel together for the first 10 days, and then he'd come back to the states (he can't take much time off from work), and I'd see if I could stay a bit longer. Like, 15 days longer. (Is that crazy? I haven't traveled alone much when abroad. I've always been with someone.) Anyway, it's probably a totally improbable concept, and I'm sure we couldn't afford it, but it's been nagging at me, calling to me.

Here is my dream itinerary:
Rome: 10 days
Siena: 4 days
Florence: 5 days
Venice: 6 days

I was thinking we'd head out in mid-September, once the crush of tourists has gone home. We may flip it around, flying into Venice first to avoid the late-fall flooding that seems to occur there.

My struggle with this is that it is a selfish way to spend money. And it would be a large amount of money that we'd be spending. I would have to save up most of my disposable income between now and September just to be able to consider it. With that kind of cash, we could have a new patio put in, buy a shed for the backyard, re-tile the master bathroom floor, etc. But . . . Italy is a dream of mine. I have always wanted to go, but I haven't made it yet. I am still struggling with this decision, but I need to start saving soon (and talk to my boss about some unpaid leave time!) if I'm serious about this. What do you guys think? Am I totally crazy? (Sometimes I wonder!)

Italy ... or home improvements? No contest :)

'You got to have a dream.
If you don't have a dream ...
How you gonna make your dream come true'

Not crazy at all :) Hey - go for it!
If you don't, you'll always regret it, methinks ...

Steve

Yes and no.

Wanting to take time for something like this before you start a family is a good idea.

Having money set aside for for lack of income during pregnancy is a very good idea. Planning your finiances during the period is also a good idea. Is there money left over, will you be in a bind? Any monies left over after planning could be used for the trip.

You may consider cutting back on the time. Two weeks can be very enjoyable, and is better than nothing.

Why don't you just go for 10 days so you won't be pushing your budget.

I think it's really important for soon to be first time parents to get a lot of traveling done before the baby comes. Even if you have the best baby in the world, it's unlikely you'll be going to Europe with the baby for the first 3 years.

You'll always remember the trip as the last trip where it was just you and your husband.

Hi B,

>My husband and I are considering starting our family in 2006...

>I was thinking of a looong trip to Italy, like a month or so,

>I'm sure we couldn't afford it,...

Italy .... or Baby

You decide.

((I))

Personally- I tend to do things that I want to do Now and worry about what we will do Later.
Usually, Things work out anyway- and I am not wishing I had gone to Europe or done what I reeeeally wanted to do.
The house will still be there, you will still save some money and get the patio done, it just might happen later..but all the while, you will have memories of that trip you two took, before the babies came.
I agree - if the guilts are too much for you, take a 10 day trip instead of a wacky month away :D
Good luck, not such a bad dilemma to be in ~

I don't think it's crazy, but as long as you asked, I do think it is very self-indulgent and irresponsible and shows you have a poor attitude towards money which isn't going to work very well for a baby. I wouldn't think that if you had plenty of money saved for this trip already and if it weren't a major dent in any savings, but you don't even have the money for this trip and you say it will use up every bit of your disposible income for the next 9 months! That is incredible to me that you would even consider doing such a thing. You know that taking unpaid leave is just spending more money (lots of it).

I wouldn't even consider taking a vacation that cost me 9 months of savings and I never have in my entire life.

Whenever I go on a trip, even if I'm really excited about the trip, I go through a little phase of feeling bad about spending money that I could be saving. I think this is normal and that a lot of people do this too. However, these feelings of guilt are quickly abandoned when I go on the trip.

But, I have never gone on a trip that I really, really couldn't afford. If this is one of those momentary guilt things that you are feeling even though you know you can afford it, then I would go.

If you know that you really can't afford it then I wouldn't go.

I agree with Christina. It is fine not to worry about money and to live it up if you have disposable income but if you don't, well, it is time to realize that putting the baby first might mean even up to the point when you are considering having the baby.

Responsibility takes many forms and parenthood shouldn't be taken lightly.

starting a family in Italy is a good ideia

As a mom who traveled a lot before kids and has traveled with kids, I would suggest a compromise. Most of us on this forum chose a lower standard of living in order to travel - we drive older cars, we don't have boats, motorcycles or other toys that our non-traveling friends purchase. Some of us also travel economically. Why not trim the trip down to 15 days and stay in budget accomodations? (not dumps, but rather B & B's without pools, two-star hotels etc.) You may want to travel in October or November when airfare is cheaper. Do picnics and lunch specials, rather than expensive restaurants. Scrimp and save at home, both before and after the trip, and you will have the money for the trip, the home improvements and the baby.

How does your husband feel about your idea?

I don't think its a terrible idea to want to get your traveling to Italy done before you have your baby, but I do agree that it isn't a good idea to take a vacation that you really can't afford.

I personally would never take a vacation that we can't really afford. My DH and I love to travel as much as we can, so we set up a seperate savings account, and aside from money that goes into it each month from our paychecks we also put any tax return money, Christmas money, etc. into it when we can. We then plan our trips around that money. If you have to scrimp and save for nine months and use all extra money you will have on your trip, then you really can't afford to go on it and probably shouldn't.

As mentioned above, perhaps you could compromise and take a two week trip instead? You could visit some great places, have a wonderful time, and not break the bank doing so.

Tracy

Part of your question is extremely personal and only you can answer it.

But part of it I can help with. Traveling in Western Europe as a solo female is not very difficult. I would suggest taking the train between cities, finding modest hotels, pensione or convents to stay at, keeping food costs low to save your budget. 2-3 weeks after your husband has gone back home is not terribly long of a time to plan or pay for.

So to answer your blunt question, no you aren't crazy but you do sound pretty confused about priorities in your life at the moment.

I would like to remind you that September is still very high season for alot of the hotels and airfares to Italy.My recommendations would be to go at the beginning of October;go for no more than two weeks(seriously,most of us are ready to go check our mail and lives at home after about 12 days away?)and start the baby making in Italy.The 10 days in Rome, 4 days in Siena and 5 in Florence could be trimmed down along with 6 in Venice. I would start in Rome(or vice versa) and then head up to Venice by way of what cities you want to visit. You can really see alot in 12-14 days in all of these places along with having the chance of relaxing time with your husband. I would like to pass on what my OB/GYN doctor said to me many years ago..........."there is never a good time to buy a house or remodel it;go back to school or have a baby so just do it and don't look back!"

"...I'm sure we couldn't afford it..."

<u>Sure you can!</u> Take the trip. Put it all on credit cards. When the bills come, pay the minimum. Keep spending for that baby and the home improvements, also on the cuff. Pay that minimum every month until you can't any more, then cash out the equity in your house and hope interest rates don't rise or you're thrown out of work by a medical emergency or recession. It's the American way.

PLAN B:

Take the vacation and defer the family until your finances are healthy.

I don't regret any of the trips I took before my kids, but I do regret some of the remodeling jobs (LOL). Seriously, I think it comes down to modifying your plans, as other posters have already said.

You could probably shorten your trip, go during the shoulder season ( starting in October), stay at inexpensive hotels or B&amp;BS and not feel as though you need to bankrupt yourselves or put all your dreams on hold until the kids are old enough to travel.

Another very economic option to consider is renting an apartment in Rome, Florence, and Venice. Many places will rent for short stays, and you can get a lot of info about agencies and rentals from other posters here on the forum.

Anyway, whatever you decide, best of luck, and keep dreaming! You can always go off to Italy for that month or so when the kids are grown. Believe me, it happens WAY too fast...

it really is the american way to live beyond one's means.

a good example of this is when we were planning for our honeymoon. we had just finished law school, as did several other couples that were getting married and going on honeymoons at the same time. we found a good deal that we could afford. they financed their honeymoons via credit card and HAD to stay at the Four Seasons and Ritz Carlton.


they are still paying for those honeymoons.

If you take this trip, will you still be able to afford to take some time off when the baby comes? As much as I'd want to go to Italy, that is an important consideration. You can never get that time with the baby back. If that's covered, and it's only a matter of putting off the patio or shed, I'd go for it, but it doesn't sound as though that's the case.

I also think shortening the trip would be a good idea. With 2 weeks, you could stay in the 4 places you mentioned and have enough time to have a wonderful trip. I would do 3 nights Venice, 3 nights Florence, 2 nights Siena and 5 nights Rome.

As far as traveling alone, I spent 18 days in Italy alone in Sept (Venice, Florence, Siena, Pienza, Rome) and had a fabulous time! I stayed in Rome in a convent for 45E per night, in a great hotel in Pienza for 50E per night, ate cheap lunches and spent a little more on dinners. You can do it inexpensively with a little research.

Only YOU will know about the money situation....and how much time you want to spend away from your husband. You could both see a LOT of the 4 cities you mentioned..in 12 to 14 days. Could/would he take that time?
It would be a great trip.
(I don't know you, of course, but if you struck out alone for 15 more days it could be that you would wish you were with your husband OR that you were not spending the money)...especially with a possible baby coming to you later in the year.
And yes...as someone else said, Sept is often still high season in Europe as far as prices of accommodations etc., and as well as tourism crowds (just not usually as many children).
You and your husband could have a wonderful, memorable trip for two weeks or under in the places you described (driving a rental car OR train).
You COULD stay a few more days alone 5 or 6 perhaps...but 15 sounds way too much. Well, to each his own. You have picked some beautiful , interesting area and cities.

If it was me, I'd not go to Italy unless I actually had the money without scrimping on something else. And I had plenty of &quot;emergency money&quot; in the bank. I'd also shorten it to 10 days.

I don't know if you really realize how much having babies costs. If you are thinking of going back to work after the baby's birth, you may change your mind when that time comes. You may have a difficult pregnancy and be in bed for six months before the birth (sure was a surprise for me!). Disability does not pay well.

You and your DH need to sit down and really think through the baby idea. What the costs are, emotional and financial, and see if you're ready for the commitment. I do agree that often there is NOT a perfect time to have a baby, but you should be reasonably prepared and have money in the bank. You owe it to this new life for whom you'll be responsible for at least 18 years.

I tend to be with Scarlett on this.

Ok maybe it's a bit irresponsible, but things do have a way of working out.

I am a single mum with 4 teenage 'children'. We do travel a fair bit, and to do so we do swing by the seat of our pants! I am a card tart, constantly searching around and juggling for the best rates, I am about to become a mortgage tart as well, and why not? If being a tart can save me 4,000 GBP a year, then I shall just take another holiday and go for it. OK, my shower needs retiling, the garden landscaping, my kitchen needs totally replacing, I need a new central heating system and the gearbox/clutch just went on my car, but those 'problems' will still be here next year - and in the meantime I want to enjoy my time with my children (in your case, before you have children) so what the hell, go for it....

I'm kind of shocked by some of the personal attacks that bradshawgirl's post brought forth. I think you neither crazy, selfish (why is thinking about postponing a new shed selfish?), nor immature. As one post said, most of us who really enjoy travelling make some &quot;sacrifices.&quot; A friend of mine who doesn't travel remodels her house and bought an acre of land in the mountains; I live with floors that need refinishing, put in new patios by myself, and travel abroad once a year. I'd go for it - paying attention to my budget, of course!

I'll tell you what I tell my friends who spend thousands on weddings and honeymoons they can't afford, Is it worth is starting your life (with your baby, in this case) with so much debt?

Debt causes a lot of strain in a marriage alone, I can't even imagine what it would be like when there is a child involved. I have a friend who spent more than they can afford for their wedding this summer and are still paying for it. She sounds miserable when I speak to her. I'm sad for her that as a newlywed, she doesn't sound happy.

If you can afford to go for two weeks, then go and enjoy your time with your husband. We went to Italy in May for two weeks and spent $4K. We went on a budget and we saved for about year to go since I'm in school and don't work. But we came back without any worries of paying off the trip.

The decision you make is obviously up to you but sit down and talk about this with your husband. Put in perspective how much it costs to raise a child, including day care costs, and having some money on hand for something that may come along that you don't expect.

There is nothing wrong with following your dreams. It's what you have to deal with when you come back that you have to ask yourself if it's worth it.

Speaking of &quot;perspective&quot;....bradshawgirl said...<i>we could have a new patio put in, buy a shed for the backyard, re-tile the master bathroom floor..</i>
I imagine most of us would be happy to take the trip rather than re-tile a bathroom floor.
One can wait, the other, you never know..
I , for one, find it a bit on the judgemental side for anyone to volunteer any analysis of her maturity levels or marital and financial situation..since she asked about traveling before a baby comes..not tossing the baby aside while she has a fling in Europe. lol.

so far the Most Terrible Idea might be asking this question on a Travel forum :D

I am so glad that my post provoked such a response! Thanks so much to everyone who has weighed in. Your replies have really got me thinking.

To aid in the advice-giving: As our finances go, we have no credit card debt, although we do have a house payment (we own our home) and one car payment. (The other car is paid for and in good shape.) We also have an emergency savings fund, but I would NOT consider dipping into that to finance this trip. (That is for emergencies ONLY.) I would use the time between now and September to save up money precisely so I wouldn't be putting the trip on credit cards. (I can't enjoy myself if I know that I will return to a mountain of debt.)

I am not currently pregnant (of course) and, if I did decide to make the trip, I would not begin trying to start a family until my return. (If I decided not to make the trip, however, that would allow us to start our family that much sooner.) I guess I am counting on my nine months of pregnancy to save and prepare for the baby. I will still be working full time during that period (unless I have a very problematic pregnancy), and my employer allows for 8 weeks full-paid leave when the baby is born, so I'm not worried about that so much.

Personally, I really don't think it's particularly immature or irresponsible at all to be just considering the idea of a trip. In fact, I think it shows that I am responsible, to be thinking about it, checking the numbers, and trying to decide if it's right for me.

Per the advice posted so far, I do like the idea of shortening the trip, maybe to two weeks or so. That option would definitely bring the cost of the trip down, and perhaps my husband could spend the entire two weeks with me, alleviating my concerns about traveling alone.

I guess what I've been wrestling with is a concept that has come up in previous responses to my post: is spending money on a vacation as justifiable as doing something like re-tiling the bathroom? I mean, re-tiling the bathroom adds value to the largest investment we have (our home), and in some ways, the money will come back to us if we decide to sell. Whereas, if we take a vacation, that money is gone, gone, gone. And when I'm thinking of taking a big vacation like this, right before I'm going to begin starting a family (which is probably the most adult decision of my life), I wonder if I'm being frivolous and selfish. And maybe I am? Thoughts?

Per the poster who asked about my husband - I think he would rather re-tile the bathroom, put in a patio, etc., and generally feather the nest before we start trying to have a baby. And I definitely think he has an excellent point. We are still talking about it between ourselves. We have (of course) not made any decisions yet. Keep the advice coming, please!

I collect experiences, not stuff. Who needs a silly shed when you can day dream or look at your photo album of your trip to Italy.

Go go go go! Children will change everything. Don't wait 18 years (22 if college is in the works)! Be a child yourself one more time before you have to do everything for your own baby.
You can't foresee the future-do it now while you are young and able. Yes, maybe scale back on the time so you can keep some of your dollars around, but don't wait for a more convenient time!

Your question is impossible to answer because people have different priorities.

For me travel is WAY more important than home improvement would ever be (as you could tell by the shape of my condo -lol). I value my travel experiences and trips abroad more than any material object. But if how you see it is this trip being is money &quot;gone gone gone&quot; then no, I wouldn't do it.

I agree with those that say if you have the money, better a trip to Italy than retiling the bathroom. You will have many years to retile and to buy a shed. It will be a lot harder to get to Italy with small children. Compromise, reduce the trip to 2 weeks, have a wonderful time and come back and start saving for the patio.

A two week trip with your husband is a VERY different thing than 10 days with him plus 15 days solo. Since you mentioned it in the first place, I would try to carefully consider if it is an experience you would like to have, memories you would treasure. For me being alone in Europe was priceless, an amazing time or growth and stretching my comfort level (on the other hand, I am single and did not leave someone behind to do it).

Lol, you want MORE &quot;advice&quot;? Seems like you have more than enough from complete strangers already.

If you decide to go, be sure and have fun!

If one restricts one's thinking to economics (i.e., investing in a house as opposed to investing in travel), two things seem pertinent. First, when do you plan on selling your house? If not in the foreseeable future, wait - you can always retile later (even better, you can learn to lay tile yourself, and save lots of money that way). Second, how much would new tile add to the value? At least once a year I read newspaper and magazine articles that actually break down what various remodelling projects will add to the resale value of one's house. Though I remember that remodelling often adds less than what homeowners expect, my point is that there is some empirical research on this topic. So if you're really worried about that, I would call up a real estate agent or start Googling about remodelling and resale value.

However, in the end I think this whole issue is about competing notions of value. Do we spend on our money on things that promise some return on our investment, or do we &quot;waste&quot; our money on things that make us happy but that don't promise such a return? Frankly, I regard travel as an investment: people who travel tend to be more informed and open-minded than those who don't. But even if I didn't believe that, if I were you I would take the trip. You are about to enter the most time-consuming job imaginable: motherhood. You will not often have time for yourself, and in the early days, probably not even for your husband. If you can afford it (and it sounds as if you can), I would take the trip - and point out to your husband that it will be a prime opportunity to spend time together before a third party arrives on the scene!

My husband and I went to Europe the first time for 23 days &quot;before we started a family&quot;

Since then, I've had 2 miscarriages, faced unexplained infertility, and have taken one more trip to Europe.

All I'm saying is, you just never know when life will deal you something different than what you planned.

In the meantime, it's very nice to go to Europe before you get saddled down with kids and look at people like me with that pea-green with envy look that new parents get when they see my pictures from another trip. I'd trade places with them in a heartbeat, but in the absence of that, I'll go to Europe.

Jules

Well, I am pretty firmly in the camp that a trip to Italy wins out big time over home improvement, but here's another perspective (one that will no doubt bring on another wave of criticisms):

Why do you have to stay at home once you have a baby, or even once you're pregnant? We traveled to London when I was 6 months pregnant with my first. When she was 11 months old we took her to Italy for 2 weeks with us. Next summer, to France. Then, when I was pregnant with my second I traveled to France for a week (alone, on business), and when he was 8 months old we took the two of them to Europe. Have been doing it annually for 18 years, and many of those trips have been just me and the kids for at least part of the time because I can take a lot more time off than my husband.

It's a different kind of travel, to be sure, but having kids and traveling to Europe are not mutually exclusive.

Of course, if the entire idea of this is a &quot;last fling&quot; as a non-parent, my perspective is useless.

You have already received a lot of good advice but since I am in a similiar situation, I thought I would share my perspective.

I am going to Europe in February with my husband. This will be our last &quot;big&quot; trip before we start trying to conceive. We are only going for 10 days and we can afford it. I've really budgeted well for the trip and we have cut back on a lot of frivolous spending. I've also changed reservations from hotels to hostels to save money. We are splurging on an apartment in Amsterdam but besides that we will be doing Europe on the cheap. I guess my point is if you don't stay in 4-star hotels and cut out frivolous expenses (Starbucks, eating out, etc), you can probably do the trip without breaking the bank.

Jennifer

Go to Italy. My DH and I had a last hurrah before we had kids 4 years ago. Now we have two. And it was a great decision. We never looked back. We find we always have home improvement projects, but never enough time to do things like travel. Life is too short. You will have plenty of time to finish things on your house later. That is MHO.

PS, we are going to HI in 4 days, ALONE, for the first time since our &quot;last hurrah.&quot; We probably should fix our driveway, but we decided that life is too short, and we will always have other things that need fixing. But if we don't focus on our marriage, that might not be able to be fixed someday! (LOL)

This is how I think about this type of decision. Some of my friends think this is a macabre logic...

The patio, backyard, kitchen, etc will alway be with you in some way to be done in the future

But suppose you find out later that you can no longer travel to Italy no matter how much money you are willing to spend (medical, personal obligations, etc). Would you kick yourself at that point &quot;Even though the finance was tight, I wish I had at least gone to Italy for ... days and gone to ... cities?&quot;

The answer to the above question should define the minimum acceptable trip.

&quot;and cut out frivolous expenses (Starbucks, eating out, etc)&quot;

I don't think I've ever heard that &quot;eating out&quot; on vacation constitutes a frivolous expense. To me, that's one of the nicest experiences to get to know a country and its people, plus it does keep you from starving. Picnics are nice, but not for every meal.

In the pasta vs. patio debate, I'll weigh in on the side of pasta.
((H))

&gt;is spending money on a vacation as justifiable as doing something like re-tiling the bathroom?&lt;

Much more justifiable.

I have been retiling our bathroom, tile by tile, for the past 8 months.

((I))