I wouldn't want to go on vacation if I couldn't eat out. Eating out doesn't have to be expensive.

since I am bored enough to still be reading this - she meant not to eat out or go to starbucks while she is still at home saving for the trip. do I have to explain everything? :D

Well, with the clarification you have given, it doesn't sound as though you're endangering your financial state or giving up time home with the baby after it's born, so in that case I would definitely go!

Home improvements can be done later. Our bedroom could really use new carpeting. My son and his friend were offering to install it, but I said I didn't have money right now for carpet. He said, well, you can afford to go to Italy. I replied, yes, that's why I can't afford the carpet! His comeback was that the carpet would last for years, but the trip would be over in a couple of weeks. I said, and the memories will last a lifetime. :-d

(He couldn't argue with that!)

Interesting thead bradshawgirl.

As a mother and grandmother and someone who is rather conservative when it comes to money here are my thoughts.

When you own a residence there is always work that needs to be done. Some work is necessary (replacing the heater that no longer works, replacing the old roof that is leaking and beyond repair, replacing the stove or refrigerator that has gone out etc). Other work is what we would like such as remodeling the bathroom, a new patio etc. When you own a house or condo you will always have your "wish list" but unless it is work that needs to be done to keep the property in good shape it can wait IF getting away on a trip is important to you.

Personally I, like some others here, feel that taking trips is important for ones mental and physical health, IF the trip can be taken without running up credit card debt that canNOT be paid in full when one returns home. And in your case that sounds like the situation.

Having special time alone with your husband is very good for the health of your marriage also. Unless you have a husband that just absolutely does not want to travel (there are a few spouses like that) and will resent and grumble about the money being spent on the trip. That is another whole problem of course.

Normally after one has a child or children they do take trips and children IMO can be a joy and really add to the journey. There is nothing like seeing the world through a childs eye. And in most cases married couples are also able to get off by themselves from time to time without the children thanks to grandparents, aunts and uncles, close friends etc.

I personally would, with the information that you have shared, take the trip with your husband be it for 10 days or hopefully two weeks. Assuming of course your husband is happy or at least agreeable to this trip.

I just read a saying yesterday which made me think of your situation. It read "Life is like a book. If you never travel you have only read one page of the book".

Best wishes to you and your husband with your decision.

Want a short lecture on Future Value?

If you put the money into the house now, and continue to buy, upgrade, and sell houses, by the time you're 50, you can live in Tuscany every summer and Arizona every winter. If you spend it now, well...it's not going to work for you ever again.

Fact: it you put $2000 into a self-directed brokerage IRA every year and your investment return is 13%, you will be a millionaire at the end of the 35th year. If you can manage 15% RoI, it's the 31st year. Deferred gratification is better than the instant kind.

And if your investment return is 50%, or if it's 100%, or if it's a bazillion %.

Just to add my two cents..

Go to Italy, enjoy yourself, build up fabulous memories, this way when you become a newMom and the baby crying drive you bananas, you can always relive the happy carefree times..

Memories last forever, while a new patio may fall apart after few years.

Life is way too Fragile and too short, dont wait for tomorrow, we dont know if tomorrow bring us happiness or sorrow.

Buon Viaggio and enjoy yourself.

I have so enjoyed reading the responses that you've all been nice enough to write in for me. I posted this thread to get a wide variety of feedback, things like "Well, I didn't go, and I regretted it," or "I did go, and I wish I hadn't," or "Here's why you should (or shouldn't) do it." I thank you all for taking the time to post with your thoughts.

In the 5 years we have been married, my husband and I have traveled alot, and I guess that part of me is worried that once the kids come, that will have to stop. But, as some of you have pointed out, having kids doesn't mean never traveling again. (Although I think it will probably be a little more difficult to save/budget for travel once we have children.)

I think earlier posters are right - everyone has different priorities. And while I definitely value putting money into the house, I think that this trip must be important to me, too. Otherwise, I wouldn't keep dreaming about it like I have been.

I think that the two week trip may be my best option, because it will allow us to have a bit of both - we can still finish up a couple of projects around the house, even though we are taking a trip to Europe.

And, if I have to miss some of the cities on my "dream itinerary," I will just add them to the list for my next trip to Italy . . . whenever that may be!

Again, thank you all so much! I have really been impressed with the advice you've given me!!

Go.

You are not deciding whether to make a house payment or take a trip. You are deciding what to do with some money that you are going to save. Trip or renovate. You are not planning on going into debt to go. I can't believe some of the comments people are making.

It is true. A child will change your life. Take this dream trip now while you can. You can't see into the future. You may not be able to go for many years after a child. You might not be able to afford it, you may not want the time away from your child. By the time your child (children) are older, you don't know what may be happening with you or your husband. One of you may have a health problem and be unable to travel. Go now while you have both the funds and the good health to do it.

This is not a terrible idea. Throwing it all on a credit card is a terrible idea. Planning in advance to take some time for yourselves in advance of starting a family and saving for months to do it is a responsible and... well... deliciously wonderful idea!!

Yes, if you live long enough (not everyone does) and if you don't have health problems that preclude you from travelling 35 years from now. Everything in moderation is my theory on life. Pay the bills on time, never pay interest on anything except for a mortgage, never pay an annual fee for a credit card, don't throw money away on junk and just stuff, save for emergencies and retirement. And also enjoy life. There is no guarantee about the future. The people that I have known that have never given themselves what their heart desired because they saved every cent they could "for the future" have grown into sad and disheartened people. And I have know many that waited until retirement to travel and never did due to serious health problems or dying. The people that have "blown" all their money are constant worrywarts and very negative about life. The people that have known how to balance being finanically conservative along with enjoying life are happy and serene. Even those that can no longer travel due to health problems as they have their memories and consequently feel that they had a "good life". But each of us must decide how we want to handle our life of course. What works for one person will not work for another.

I am thankful that I am happy with the decisions I have made. Now if someone would just drop a nice large check in the mail to me I sure would enjoy more trips, LOL.

"by the time you're 50, you can live in Tuscany every summer and Arizona every winter.."

Or you could die of a heart attack at 49. I bought my first house at age 32 and started my series of Europe adventures two years later. Perhaps I would have been much richer monetarily by now if I had waited until 50 to travel, but my life has been much richer for traveling these past 21 years!
((H))

Robespierre,

Where are you getting 13% on you IRA?

I had a feeling this would polarize into grasshoppers <i>v.</i> ants, and sure enough. I'm not saying that one should wait to travel until one is rich, only that it is better to find that magical balance between spending and saving.

Neither of the extremes is particularly desirable. If every penny is spent the instant the check is deposited (or, much worse, <u>before</u> it's earned), then you will have lots of happy memories to look back on from your trailer in Bullhead City. If you don't spend it until much later - it may be too late.

I only proposed the 30-35 year time frame to point out that a dollar you don't spend now is worth a lot of dollars soon enough. Obviously, we're going to spend on travel before we retire, but the issue is one of <i>how much how soon?</i>

kureiff - disinterestedbystanderatmaildotcom

Peeky,

I agree with Starbucks, but I really don't think dining out is a &quot;frivolous&quot; event. To me, frivolous spending is the money I am losing in my college football bowl pools.
((H))

When I said to cut down on eating out, I did mean before you go on the trip. It would be a pretty depressing to never eat out on vacation lol.

Thanks, Peeky, for helping clear this up before I had a chance to check the thread.

I hope everyone has a wonderful new year.

Thanks,
Jennifer

Sorry,

I meant &quot;It would be pretty depressing to never eat out on vacation lol.&quot;

On and btw, everyone has their frivolous expenses. I was just giving a couple of examples.

Take the shorter trip with your husband, and travel smart, on a budget. You don't want to kick yourself later thinking about what you never did.

Your NOT crazy. Italy was a dream of mine and I finally got there and it was all that and a bolonga sandwich. Nothing can prepare You for Rome. it more than I ever expected.

You will always have time to be an adult with a job and daily blah blah blah, but the chance of a lifetime is within reach, you have to GO FOR IT!

Just go!! LOL!!

Since I was a child my dream was to go to Paris. Yeah most kids want to be a rock star or actor but I just wanted to go to Paris. The past few years have not be great for me. I got divorced on Sept. 28, 2004 and I was struggling with that as some people do. I wanted to turn that negative into a positive. Then it hit me, I have the chance to fulfill my dream and I am going to do it!! So on Sept. 28 2005 I flew to Paris. I am so glad I did. I look back on that date not as a date of sadness but one of sheer joy!! It was probably one of the best things I have ever done for myself!! It renewed my soul and heart. I fell in love with the city and left the negativity way in the past.

And for those who say one cannot predict the future. Totally agree!! Since then I have had some medical problems. Thank God they are not life threatening but, I might need surgery and need to take some time off of work so if I waited, I probably wouldn't have afforded the trip or been able to go due to my health. So when they wheel me into the ER I will be clutching my fave picture of Paris and not having one single regret for going!!

I would have to put myself in the minority and vote for doing the longer trip as it will be a long, long time if you do start a family before you can take time off like this to travel. Would vote for October, possibly even late October or November instead of September to decrease your costs. Consider one week in Rome in an apartment, cutting out Siena which can be easily reached from Florence, and add the Amalfi coast and the Lakes.
Finances are always an issue for many people and as this is a travel board we might value our travel experiences as opposed to material goods more than most people. It is really a question of balance for on one hand you do not wish to be wealthy and old having lived a meager life, nor old and poor but with lots of memories and a great past life.
There are long term and short term issues in one's finances, and I do caution you that having children really takes tremendous bites out of your financial means. Obviously none of us can evaluate your financial status and future but if taking another two weeks off is not a major financial issue you can, I think do the longer trip without much more money than a shorter trip by traveling off season and using apartments, small hotels and being prudent with food. Remember that you have already paid the cost of travel to Italy so another week or two need not be that expensive. If your evaluation of your financial issues allow you to go, I would do the long trip as it need not be that much more expensive than a 10 day trip. You will otherwise need to decide whether you want to start a family now or go on a trip to Europe. Your age may be a factor here.
I know that everything I have said is just a recapitualation of other comments but if you can go without going into debt I would.

My husband and I took a two week tour across America the Summer before we started our family. We saw San Francisco, the wine country, Yosemite, Rocky Mountain National Park...it was wonderful. We have travelled since we had children, but we have NEVER gone away TOGETHER for that long since. (and don't get me wrong, I love our life) Your priorities will change and your $$ situation will change. I think you should go for at leat two weeks while you are young and healthy and start your new life as parents with great memories to look back on. It is not selfish our immature to put a home improvement project behind a trip. Memories last forever.

You love travel, yet you are trying to absorb the possibility of going on a travel-free diet for 20 years. With or without this proposed trip, that's a pretty drastic scenario.

Furthermore, I don't think it is realistic to think that one last trip, whether 2 or 4 weeks long, would somehow ease 'trip withdrawal' symptoms once you began your new life. (One last drink is the rallying cry for alcoholics, and look how well THAT works...)

Rather, I think StCirq has a better approach - consider the prospect of travelling with baby. Don't make such a separation between your 'old' life and the new - sounds like a great way to breed resentment for what is supposed to be a joyous addition to your lives. Postpone this trip for now, and start putting aside money for when all three of you can travel. It might take you longer to save for and execute the trip than you would like, but if you are serious about it, it won't take you 20 years.

By the way, if you are going to compare the value of home renovation projects to travel, you really need to use a common basis of comparison. It won't be very illuminating to consider home renovation projects solely in terms of their value on **paper**, as compared to the **emotional** value of trips. Renovation projects can also have emotional value. You'll be spending a lot more time around home generally, once baby arrives. What was once easy to 'shut the door on' or forget about, might not be so easy to do in the future. Especially if there is any aspect to the current condition of the patio or bathroom that could be a safety hazard, as in uneven floor tile. Even a garden shed, complete with a strong padlock, might be worth the financial sacrifice, given the sharp tools and poisonous substances that could then be safely stored therein.

Good luck with your decision.

Well, I think you should go. Once the children come it will be a long time before you can do it.

Since you are planning on spending several days in each city, do rent an aparment in those cities. It is so much less expensive than a hotel. AND more spacious and comfortable. You can eat breakfasts in and even dinners if you want. If we are going to be in a city for at least three or four days we always do it this way. If we are out sightseeing we often eat our main meal in a restaurant in the early-to- mid-afternoon and then pick up cheese and bread and fruit and wine or deli fare to take back to the apartment for &quot;supper&quot;. If you day's plans include the countryside or a beach we can make sandwiches in the apartment to take along for lunch.

Sites to look for apartments include cyberrentals.com, athomeabroad.com, vrbo.com, etc. etc. If you google the city name and the word &quot;apartment&quot; you will find many more sites.

I don't think you are crazy at all, and if you plan carefully the trip may cost way less than you are anticipating.

Good luck.

I think a very cheap budget, without a car, for this sort of trip, would be
50 Euros per day per person.

A low-moderate budget, without a car, would be 100 Euros per day per person.

Airfare and train transport would be extra.

You mentioned you would get eight weeks of leave after you give birth. Much as I like travel, I'd choose four more weeks at home with a new baby over four weeks of travel, giving you twelve weeks of leave, if that's a choice.

Not terrible, bradshawgirl...

I've been wondering as I read this thread if somewhere out there a chat forum exists for people who like to remodel and renovate. If it's their dream, do they talk about it, ask advice on one another, offer opinions, etc?

Me: if this house is neat and clean, and in working order, I'm happy. Home remodeling, refurnishing, and the rest mean very little to me. We do keep the place up, but little by little, when we can afford it. I seldom catch myself daydreaming about home repair or remodeling. I don't read the magazines, or send away for free information, or attend online forums on the subject.

I do daydream about trips, send for brochures, read travel books and guide books all the time, yearn for places, and more. I NEVER yearn for tile or window treatments.

So for me, it is quite simple: among life's pleasures and adornments, taking my financial situation into account, what will please and gratify me the most? You guys already know the answer.

But for my MIL, who was always redecorating, remodeling, adding, fixing and fancying up, there was a different answer. She read home magazines and books.

Here's the catch: she can no longer live on her own and travel. She never expresses envy of anyone's home remodeling or new furniture, but she is constantly totally JEALOUS of every trip we take, even if it is just a long weekend to visit our married daughter.

Is there a lesson here? I don't really know. However, my parents, who always traveled and didn't spend all that much on the house, seem more content now that they can't do either of those things. They love to talk about the trips they took, and they love to talk about the trips DH and I are taking. MIL only complains about the trips DH and I take.

These are musings, but they may have some meaning...

Just to add a minority opinion, I say forget about having a baby and go to Italy.

And I've never been to Italy.

liz

Life is short. Imagine you're on your deathbed (if that isn't too morbid) and looking back over your life. Can you imagine yourself saying, &quot;I'm just so glad I had a new garden shed, even though I never got to see Italy&quot;?

In the words of the old 50's song: Enjoy yourself; it's later than you think.

It sounds as though you can save the money rather than using credit so it's up to you what to spend your 'disposable income' on. As the last poster said, no-one lies on their deathbed thinking 'Wow I had such a fantastic kitchen when I was younger'.
Go for it. Otherwise it may always stay with you as an 'If only...'
It probably seems more shocking to you as I understand that in the US you don't get a lot of holiday time - so is it more the time you feel guilty about. Well, here in the UK we are all legally entitled to a minimum 20 days a year so your plans do not seem crazy to me for a blow-out trip. What about the people who go off travelling for months on end? Why do think it is crazy to travel for a few weeks?

I wouldn't spend 10 days in Rome though. I love it but it is quite intense and about 4 days is probably a good introduction!

Compromise!
Rome: 3 nights
Florence: 4 nights
Venice: 3 nights

Stay in cheaper hotels, convents or hostels. Eat in cheaper family restaurants.

You've just cut the price of your trip in half.

Never take a trip you can't afford.

It's possible the reason why nobody ever lay on their deathbed pining over this or that is because they didn't have a bed to die on, but were still stuck with that @#$*!!! futon. :)

It's also possible that the reason nobody lay on their deathbed cursing their failure to renovate a kitchen, say, is because they cursed that failure each and every day of their lives, since the regret set in looooong before their dying day or even their dotage! I spent exactly one evening in a kitchen recently where you couldn't open the refridgerator and dishwasher doors simultaneously, because the two were at immediate right angles to each other. Believe me, I found this a lot more aggravating than just a simple case of tacky colour schemes, but even tacky colour schemes could really, really grate on one's nerves, especially when one is serving the demands of a baby.

If you're going to compare relative values, you need to get estimates for how much your proposed renovations would cost. Just as it isn't necessary to have the creme de la creme of a trip, it isn't necessary to have designer marble tile, but it might lift your spirits immensely to have a new paint job, say.

Since far too many have already pontificated, I'll simply add this:

1. Traveling with small children is NOTHING like traveling alone with the one you love.
2. Staying is several glamorous, European hotels inspired me with home redecoration projects. I managed to purchase things while abroad that I couldn't find in America, making my home that much more interesting. What fun.
3. My home is VERY important to me: this is where I spend most of my relaxation time and where I entertain family and guests. If a budget needs to be considered and it has to be one thing or another, I'd choose the home improvement over the trip and plan the trip another time. The things you dislike about your home will be there when you return (depressing) and no amount of memory will fix them. Plus, the return on investment for memory is nothing compared to upgrading real estate.
4. As difficult as compromise can be, it can often provide the best of all options. I'm a firm believer in &quot;I want it all!&quot;

Good luck.

I always tell my family and friends that if I weren't travelling as much I do, I would have easily paid off my student and car loans by now. As far as home improvement goes, my philosophy is: unless it doesn't need fixing on structures or functions (toilets leak, cracked window, broken heater), I don't take them as a priority over my trip - but that is just me.

Again, I am single, so I dont have the circumstances that you might have. I am guessing that if I were going to take family leave for my newborn, I would cut back on the trip, make it 2 instead of 4 wks because travelling is expensive, and so is having a baby. Good luck!

Not a terrible idea. I think someone earlier in the post might have wrongly used the word immature (now to take the $10,000 trip and use only credit cards to finance would definitely be immature). You seem to own your own home, so it sounds like that major investment is behind you.

You have something that you want to do before children. For the places that you list 10 days to 2 weeks would enough.

I do not understand the extended traveling alone segment but you seem to have cooled on that. [My wife's sister went traveling alone, twelve months later, she had to admit that the marriage was a little challenged.]

The decision is yours and your husbands.

Robiespierre - 13+%. I work on selecting and executing investment opportunities full time and often I can't engineer that.

I subscribe to the Graham/Dodd school: buy good companies whose share price is less than their Net Current Asset Value. When the market values them appropriately, sell. Fifteen percent is easy.

maitai tom - I love it when you talk food.

I am still reading this - light a candle for me.

At least you have decided against the extra days alone. It wasn't a good sign to me to want to run off alone or are you the runaway bride's sister?

You can remodel and travel - it does not have to be either/or. some of you think that if you travel you will live in an 1950 pea green house forever and even die saying pea green and pink - I should have painted - hand me a glass of water.

bye now

Just because bradshawgirl was contemplating time in Italy alone doesn't mean she has a weak marriage! She said he can't get as much time off. I spent 18 days in Italy alone in Sept, not because I didn't want my husband along, but because he just didn't want to go to Italy (but understood my need to go). A few weeks after I returned, we celebrated our 30th wedding anniversary, so a solo trip doesn't have to ruin a marriage!

Go Go Go.

My husband and I got around Europe on E155 a day excluding flights and could have done it cheaper. We even quit our jobs. We'll be starting a family next year maybe. But I hope to be away for 3 months this summer as well.

Life is not about money - it is about making the most of every day and what you can experience and learn from it. That is what travelling has taught me.

Money does not make you a better mother. Will experiencing a different culture and way of life?? Who knows.

It is just that I met so many Americans in my travels who thought what I had done was a big mistake, bad for my career and looked horified at the risks we were taking. I know that this is a cultural different between my county and yours now. Neither is wrong or right. Again something else I learned.

(Mind you I still would prefer a big wad of cash to travel on instead teehee).

That's what the American Express is for.

bradshawgirl
I read thru most of these posts and what I noticed was the majority topic was money. IMHO I would concentrate more on how my husband feels and thinks. Does he share your desire to go to Italy? Is it important to him for the two of you to go? Is this something the two of you talk about and plan? And if you stay longer then he, how does he feel about that? How would you feel if he were to stay two weeks longer in Italy without you? Just some questions I wonder if you've thought about since you asked.

&quot;Life is not about money - it is about making the most of every day and what you can experience and learn from it.&quot;

I tried that one down at the Safeway, and they didn't go for it.