A Rant about Tipping
 

There is a recent (ca 1 May, 2001) Fodor’s article (‘When to stiff the waiter’) which quotes a former waitress on the subject of tipping. Of specific interest to me was her comment that a tip of 15 per cent is, to her at least, no longer the 'norm'(it never was for me.) The customer, it seems, is now expected to tip more like 17 to 20 per cent, supposedly to cover a ‘pay raise’ for the occupation. <BR> <BR>As we all know, the service charge or tip is based upon a bill that is fixed in amount. Except, except….over the years, the ‘fixed’ amount paid for a given meal has not exactly remained ‘fixed.’ One does not pay today, for a given meal in a given establishment, what one would have paid five years ago. In other words, quite apart from increases in the percentage one uses to tip, the base upon which tips are calculated has been increasing. Ten per cent of yesterday’s $20.00 meal is $2.00; the same meal priced today at $25.00, tipped at ten per cent, yields $2.50. Therefore, wait staff receive pay raises every time the restauranteur raises his prices, even when the percentage tipped remains the same. Incidentally, while $25.00 times 0.10 yields a tip of $2.50, $25.00 times 0.15 yields a tip of $3.75. The second tip is not five per cent bigger than the first tip, it is fifty per cent bigger! Similarly, ‘raising’ the tip percentage yet again to 17 per cent may not sound like a lot, but it represents an 11 per cent increase in pay over a 15 per cent tip; raising it to 20 per cent from 15 represents a 33 per cent increase in pay over a 15 per cent tip, and a 100 per cent increase in pay over a 10 per cent tip! When my income doubles, or even goes up by a third, I’ll start leaving 20 per cent. Meanwhile….. <BR> <BR>Whether the staff receive a real increase in income, or whether their income will increase only commensurate with inflation, is keyed to the success of the establishment; empty restaurants leave no tips. A successful restaurant can set prices well above its costs, or in other words, increase its profit margins. Now, what would make you willing to pay higher prices, over and above the average for a given category of meal? <BR> <BR>How about…. A reputation of the restaurant for good food, and…… <BR> <BR>Comments, please <BR>

I read this pretty quick so forgive me if I missed something, but tipping in Europe is completely different from tipping in the US. In a lot of Euro countries, tax and tip are included in the prices and you don't HAVE to tip anything, although people generally round the bill up.

mac: <BR>The real problem lies in the fact that restaurant owners are not obligated to pay anything even near the minimum wage. Even if the prices get raised, the only one making any extra money is the owner. Many years ago I worked for a very successful restaurant. GREAT tips, busy place, great food. Many years later, my best friend who still works there is still making the SAME hourly wage! The prices have definitely increased. The food is still terrific and tips are good though the place is not as busy as it once was. <BR>I agreed with the fact that a small tip is more powerful than none at all because you believe that if nothing was left that it was a mistake or the person is a jerk. A small tip shows me you were unhappy, but I would hope that it never came to that and that if a customer were unhappy, the server would be made aware before the customer left the restaurant. <BR>I am happy to say that for the ten years I worked there, I am able to recall just 2! times where I was "stiffed". One an unhappy customer who I was not able to make it better for and once where it was a bunch of teenage girls who ate like hounds and left without paying. My boss never made me pay that check, so it wasn't a total loss. Well, my rant is done!

I read the article, too, and thought it was spot on - it is time for a raise. <BR> <BR>Your logic may seem sound, but the facts do not support it. <BR> <BR>Restaurant menu increases do not, contrary to popular belief, keep up with the cost of living. Case in point? Wendy's , who has had their "99-cent menu" for a decade. I know it's a fast food joint, but it points out the fact that food costs in general have remained incredibly stable over the last five years in particular. <BR> <BR>Also, the waiter's job is not to make the food---it is to deliver it to the table, so the quality of the food should not affect their tip. But it does. Customers are fast to leave a poor tip if the food was sub-standard. <BR> <BR>All tipping is optional, yet restaurants get away with paying criminally low hourly wages---they act as if all customers will tip appropriately, which they do not. <BR> <BR>My belief is that everyone should be a waiter for a day just to see how it feels---people always expect more than they are willing to pay for. <BR>

I think a customer should tip what he or she deems appropriate for the service. If the food is unsatisfactory it is not the fault of the service person...the tip should reflect the level of service. Keep in mind these people (waitstaff) are paid a poor hourly wage relative to how hard they work, so they depend on tips. If they care enough to give you good service, you should tip accordingly, as should you if they provide poor service...that is my philosophy.

I agree with those who point out the low hourly wage of wait staff, but that is just the point. As another poster pointed out, in Europe wait staff are treated as professionals, and paid accordingly. The service charge is included, or at most, one rounds it up a bit. But the principle would be the same; what I expect to do is have the employer pay the wage, and pass on the cost in the prices. I want the employer to do the hiring and the training of the staff, rather than have me 'train' them, via tips, to serve me. Good wait staff are not a matter of luck, and their pay should not be determined by the luck of the draw, either by how much the customer orders, or by how much they tip. <BR> <BR>In addition to the hourly wage, the staff should be receiving a percentage of the profits, which is best administered by the employer, as opposed to the customer trying to accomplish the same objective by paying a percentage of the bill. <BR> <BR>While it is true that Wendy's may not have increased their 0.99 meal, I was not thinking of fast food restaurants which do not offer table service and which do not involve tipping. I am aware that wage rates at such establishments are truly appalling. <BR> <BR>Thank you for your responses, it's always important to get fresh perspectives.

It's very unfair to turn a large part of a waiter's income into a lottery : it's the same work to carry a cheap dish as an expensive one. <BR>The reason restaurants do it is to ensure grovelling, which the customers love, also to encourage selling extra drinks & coffee to inflate the bill, which the restaurant loves. <BR>The waiters hate it, which is why they pool tips in some places. <BR>I don't tip as a %, I try to leave the same amount no matter what I order, more if its a special dish needing waiter input.(flambe etc) <BR>In UK standard tip in a restaurant is 10%.Nobody tips in bars except in special circs. <BR>Every country is different, some eg France have laws about it, but nobody in <BR>Europe gives the high tips given in America.

Yes---and good tourists honor the customs of whatever culture they happen to be in. And if you are in America, the custom is to tip 15% for good service (or more). It does not matter where you are from---that is no excuse for poor tipping! <BR>It just means you are an ignorant tourist.

Mac, you're a cheap bastard. sorry.

I worked for a restaurant that took the AMEX and Visa percentage charges out of my tips--about 2 to 4 percent! <BR> <BR>Talk about criminal!

Just out of interest, if you tip a waiter in the USA, so they get to keep the money. <BR>In England, the usual thing is for any tips to be shared between all the staff. Quite often, there will be a staff box by the exit where tips are placed. <BR>IMHO tipping is a pernicious and degrading practice and people like waiters should be payed a proper wage. Iceland is a good example of a country where it is "not done" to tip. <BR>Of course, when we are in the US we tip everything that moves.

One correction. In the US, there are places where the staff pools their tips. I worked at one when I was in college. <BR> <BR>Call me crazy (and I'm sure some posts will) but I like the practice of tipping. It's one of the few opportunities where you get to decide the value of something yourself right on the spot. People in the US continually complain about a lack of top-quality service (outside of the hospitality industry). It happens because the person you're dealing with gets the same whether they do a good or bad job. So: long live tipping! <BR> <BR>My personal habit is to tip at least 20% if the service is good -- sometimes more if it's exceptional. If the service stinks, I leave much less.

I treat tipping the same way I treat grading my students: <BR>At first, everybody has an A. What they do the rest of the semester will determine how far that grade slips from A. <BR> <BR>Same with a restaurant. I start with the standard tip, and subtract if they are not doing their job in some way. I might even add a little more---give them an A+---if they are exceptional!

Tipping is such a ludicrous practice. I wish there was some way overnight to get rid of it. It sends an incredibly insulting message from the management to the customer. <BR> <BR>It says, "I don't have any idea how to evaluate these the employess (the wait staff) and I expect you to do it for me; I want you to do the necessary compensation research, and set their wages. Oh, and I don't care what you decide. You don't need to tell me about it because I wouldn't compile it and use your appraisal and financial decision in any way to refine my business." <BR> <BR>What if every service business operated this way? What if the hourly rate for a mechanic was $4.00 but it was understood that you would add some fraction of the cost of the parts? What if you really did have to tip the pilot? <BR> <BR>The hospitality industry should be ashamed of itself for expecting its customers to do the NORMAL job of MANAGEMENT in every other service business industry. <BR>

Are you saying that I still have to pay at least 15% even if food is dissapointing or a staff couldn't care less about us being there? Our meal at the Chanterelle came to almost US $200 for two of us but it was not anything to write home about and a staff was nowhere to be found. We always thought that a wait staff suppose to wait. To be more specific we were there on January 2nd. We feel we didn't get what we paid for. Do you still think we should leave at least $30? <BR>Mac I am with you on this one. Thank you for speaking out

xxx is right on. Restaurants do not have to pay a living wage or provide benefits for their employees. Their customers are expected to provide most of the wages, and the taxpayers pick up the tab for the health care. Every business should be so lucky. Cheap labor subsidized by customers and taxpayers.

All, <BR> <BR>I agree that in that article, the writer got a bit carried away. However, I was a waitress for 3 years and I must say that waitstaff traditioanlly does not even make minimum wage--at least not in Massachusetts. I made $2.55 per hour at a corporate restaurant (national chain) back in 1996. The minimum wage was $5.00 or just below at that point. I then went to work for a family-owned restaurant and made $3.50. <BR> <BR>If the service is good, I tip 20%. If it's great, I tip more. Too many people blame the waitstaff for things way beyond their control. Believe me, Mac--wait tables for a living and only then will you ever understand what it's like.

I don't think the article or this discussion is about comparing the job of a waiter to other jobs: Waiters work for tips in America---that's just how it is. It does no good to say "well, we don't tip our mechanics based on the cost of the parts" or whatever. <BR> <BR> <BR>The bottom line is that any cheapskate who leaves a bad tip because he is philosphically opposed to the "system" should stay at home and eat TV dinners...

For wait staff complaining about low wages and depending on tips, I'm curious how many of you actually declare all of your tips to the IRS. <BR> <BR>When I waitressed, we were paid $3.50 an hour (this was 3 years ago), and our boss told us that we only had to declare tips that took the $3.50 up to the hourly minimum wage (forget what it was exactly, but if it was $5.00, we only declared $1.50 in tips per hour). This, of course, is completely illegal, but I was young and impressionable at the time, and believed him. <BR> <BR>How many of us working in office jobs get 75% or more of our income tax free? This is why I ALWAYS tip by credit card, to insure that everyone is paying their fair share in taxes (in part because I pay MORE than my fair share). <BR> <BR>I also waitressed in England, where we shared our tips. I didn't actually think this system was fair. Here I was, a student working at a summer job, getting the same share of the tips as women who had worked in the restaurant for 20 years. <BR> <BR>And I also agree with Mac. Real restaurant prices have increased significantly in the past 5-10 years, and so accordingly the amount I tip has gone up, but not the percentage, unless I receive outstanding service.

I'm into acting instead of reacting. If service stinks, I complain to the manager or maitre d' (and I mean when it's really lousy - rude is the thing that puts it over the edge for me); if the food is not good, again, I speak up. If you leave a small or no tip, the waiter just thinks you're a cheap bastard; management never knows that you were miffed or why. <BR> <BR>I leave around 20%, 'cause leaving pennies is ugly. Example: w/o tax, tab is $16.80; 15% is $2.52, so I bet most people round down to $2.50; 20% is $3.36, so I can round to $3.25 or $3.35 without worry. <BR> <BR>Oh God I was was with my mother and her friend at a family restaurant; my mother leaves 15% (she sort of guestimates based on what she spent, rounds up a little); her friend PULLS OUT A WALLET SIZE CARD THAT GIVES THE **EXACT** AMOUNT FOR 15% AND SHE LEAVES **$1.33** IN CASH ON THE TABLE. When they went out to the car, I swiped the pennies and left two dimes... <BR> <BR>I personally think the whole tipping thing is wretched; pay the waitstaff a decent wage and include the cost in my meal so I don't have to do math when I'm supposed to be relaxing.

Oh my God! <BR> <BR>I thought I was the only one who had that no-pennies rule! <BR> <BR>And as for my parents, I'm always adding to their tips when I go out to eat with them!

What story are you talking about?

Hello all, I also wish they would decide to include the tip in either price of the food, or as a separate service charge.... Elvira: that is funny you with the dimes, I can see myself doing that too! <BR> Ben: here is a differant take on your comment. wWe took my parents to a nice restaurant, and the service was awful, and that is an understatement! After complaining both to the waitress then the manager, we left very unhappy. As were leaving my mother runs back to put extra money on the table, my son spots this crazy gesture(he was ticked too) quietly goes to the table and picks up the offending money! My mother was clueless......thank goodness, Judy ;-/ <BR>

Just a couple of thoughts. <BR>Some posters feel that if the food is unsatisfactory, this should not reflect upon the server. Well and good. But what if the food was unsatisfactory because it arrived cold? Or wasn't prepared as ordered? If I order a steak medium-well, and it gets served rare and has to be sent back, who's at fault? It's my contention that it's the waiter's responsibility to not serve me a steak (or any dish) that's not prepared as ordered (even if he has to cut into it to verify that it's properly cooked). It's the chef's fault for not cooking it properly, but it's the waiter's fault for allowing it to get to the table that way. <BR>Also, what if the meal is not timed properly (i.e., everything arrives together - soup, salad, main course - or if the courses overlap). Is it the waiter's job to ensure that the meal arrives in sequence, or the chef's? I'm never sure. <BR>And finally, in my usual cold-hearted fashion, I don't care whether or not a waiter makes a living wage or gets decent wages. He can vote with his feet. I vote with my tip. Good service deserves a 15% tip. Exceptional service desrves more (but rarely above 20%), and ANY service that makes the meal even slightly unpleasant (I'm talking service now, not those things out of the waiter's control) should be appropriately penalized (down to zero, if warranted). After all, the reason for eating out (unless you're on a trip) is to make the meal a more or less festive occasion. I also believe it's up to the patron to make it known as early as possible if he's unhappy with the service, but if it's gotten to that point, the meal is probably already unpleasant, and the waiter should be penalized.

Minimun 20%. No pennies. Round up to the nearest dollar. If you can afford to eat in a restaurant (instead of boiling up those 29 cent Ramen noodles) you can afford to tip properly. And if you're dining alone, remember that the waiter does almost as much work for half the tip. <BR>And yes, I do far prefer the European way--waiting tables is a profession and should be paid accordingly.

Amy, <BR>I agree with your statement (slightly re-phrased) that if you can't afford to tip properly, you can't afford to eat out. However, isn't the whole thrust of this thread "what constitutes tipping properly?" And, frankly, a MINIMUM tip of 20% (your suggestion) is ridiculous, no matter what your income is.

I have to say, I agree with the previous poster - 20% is what people leave for a tip these days. Maybe it's an NYC thing. I have no problem with leaving a token dollar if I am dissatisfied, however.

I have been in the restaurant business for most of my adult life. I have worked as a hostess, server, bartender, and manager, so I have worked as a tipped and a salaried employee. I don't expect anyone to tip me 15-20% if I gave them poor service. I am very proud of the job I do and my customers do receive good, attentive service. I also have to tip out other people that help me give good service. 1% to the busperson, 1% to the bartender, and 1% to the expeditor. So I don't walk out with all of my tips. I also don't appreciate people who can't thank you enough for the great job I've done and leave a $3.00 tip on a $75.00 bill. Your verbal gratuities don't pay my rent! I also doubt that any of my customers would appreciate it if I cut into their steak before I delivered it to their table. I also have health insurance so the taxpayers are not carrying me. Believe me, I would be perfectly happy to add a service charge to the bill for service, but I believe you would see an overall decline in service in this country if this became standard practice. I'm sure this will irritate some of you, but I think most of the people who complain about tipping are the one's who don't do it anyway.

Maybe it is a locale thing but I am stupified by the person who said the norm for tipping was 20%. I used to be a waitress in college so I would never stiff anyone or undertip, but here in rural Missouri the norm is more around 12%-15%. I thought I was being generous by leaving 15%-17%!!!!! I agree with the poster that said ther is no reason for the percentage to increase with time. As long as the food price increases and the tips will still be larger on the same percent. <BR> <BR>P.S. There was a similar thread on the US board about a month ago!

Laura, I agree with much of what you say. Les's attitude is beyond ludicrous. How would you really react if your steak arrived at table cut into and the waiter said "I was just making sure it was actually medium rare"? I don't believe you'd say "thanks, I appreciate it," you'd say "what the hell's wrong with this guy?" Cooking the food (except for tableside prep) is NOT the wait staff's job. If you have problems with the food, or the service, you should speak to a manager. If you leave a lousy tip for the wait staff because you didn't like the food, do you really think that will change anything in the kitchen? <BR> <BR>Re the question of declaring taxes, there are currently laws which tax wait staff as a percentage of their sales, so if you bring in $500 in sales on a given night, you're taxed as if you'd earned 15% in tips even if you've been stiffed. <BR> <BR>I do think that waitstaff-not to mention the guys on the line in the kitchen, who earn lousy wages and don't get tips--should earn a living wage and get health benefits. For all the bitching about tipping that people do, though, I don't believe most people in the US would prefer to give up the discretion of tipping and see higher wages, benefits, etc. reflected in he cost of food on the menu.

P.S. to Jamie: it is a locale thing. In NYC, especially in higher-end restaurants, 20% is the norm. But people also don't, or barely, tip cab drivers elsewhere in the country, where in NYC, 15% is standard. Of course, the cost of living here is much higher than in rural Missouri.

One of things I enjoy about eating out is Europe is that the waiters are prefoessionals. There is none of this "hi, my name is..." I wish there was a way to have that sustem in the US. But I guess capitalistic greed will win.

And one of the things I love about eating out in Paris is the half hour wait for a cup of coffee and a crust of bread---makes me appreciate even slow service elsewhere... <BR> <BR>re: Tipping? <BR>You pay for what you get!

Yes, Caitlan, but I'm not interested in sending a message to the kitchen about the food. Or to the management. The food wasn't great, I don't want to hassel over it, the experience (service + food) was worth less than the fee charged, so I give myself a discount. <BR> <BR>Sorry.

To S.Fowler <BR>The "Hi, my name is..." is also one of my pet peeves. I don't do it. I figure if they want to know my name(most don't) they'll ask. At some restaurants that is a rule though.

I have a friend that leaves a preprinted card telling the server that the money that is left is a "gift" not a tip, and therefore non-taxable.

I live on the east coast of the US, and I usually tip around 20% unless the service is bad. I have been known to leave a few pennies to make a point if the service is excruciating, but otherwise my feeling is that as long as the system is the way it is (I wish waitstaff got a living wage too), then if I come into a restaurant I should tip as I'd want to be tipped if it were me. (Never waited tables, but lived with many folks who did; perhaps that's where I got the philosophy.) <BR> <BR>I also know that my dad, who's traditionally a good tipper, and one of my best friends, who tips bartenders like it's going out of style, get some of the best service I've ever seen. Not necessarily nauseatingly obseqious--just great service. And while it may stink that you have to tip well to get that kind of service (rather than it being standard), at least that works...considering that customer service is about dead in America, it seems a small price to pay.

Personally I prefer the waiter/waitress tell me their names. What's the problem? It sure beats calling "hey you" when I need some ketchup for my fries. <BR>John

Things that will never happen: <BR> <BR>1. abolition of tipping in the US in favor of straight wages. Too good a deal for the restauranteurs. <BR> <BR>2. reduction of the "standard" percentage back down to 10-15% -- and the rate _needed_ to rise because while the cost of everything else increased, the ridiculous "wages" ($3/hr. often) paid to servers never does. The difference between 15% and 20% is often a dollar or two, which I suspect you, mac, leave in change on your bureau at night. If you have a rant about restaurant prices, I wouldn't focus on the waitstaff. <BR> <BR>3. waitstaff will never be able to tell off a chef if people reduce the tip because something was wrong with the food or the time it took to reach the table -- at least in the US and I assume even more so in Europe, the chef is 'king' and no server in their right mind would tick off the chef -- too many ways to make the server suffer in retribution. <BR> <BR>Like some others, I believe in starting at 20% (partly because it's so easy to calculate) and taking off points for errors, problems, etc., But if there's something wrong with the food, I make sure the complaint goes to the chef or the management and doesn't stop at the server. <BR> <BR>One sure way to get that tip back down to 10% or less? Argue with me about anything, from choice of wine to whether fish should be cooked medium. Another: be so ridiculously "attentive" that you interrupt conversation repeatedly asking if everything's all right, particularly if you come over and schmooze with everyone at the table as if we were all brand-new good friends. It makes my wife feel guilty about not giving a good tip to "such a nice, friendly person," but not me.

I've been working as a waitress/server for 20 years now, and am currently at a four star restaurant in Western New York. Here are some facts for you. <BR> <BR>I recently got a "raise" in my hourly pay rate, I'm up to $3.30 an hour now. <BR> <BR>I average 17% of my sales, in tips. 25% of that 17% gets tipped out to my bussers and bartenders. According to the IRS, I am supposed to claim the amount of money I made BEFORE I tip out that 25%. My paychecks are always $0.00, because I don't make enough hourly, to cover the taxes I need to pay on the money I make in tips. So, I end up paying money to the IRS every April 15th. <BR> <BR>Any tips put on a charge card, I lose 2% of, for transaction fees incurred by the restaurant. <BR> <BR>I pay out of my pocket for health insurance. <BR> <BR>I don't get any paid time off, for any reason; no sick days, no holidays, no vacation days. I can take as much time off whenever I want, for as long as I want, but then I lose the money I would have made had I worked the shifts. <BR> <BR>I'm not complaining, just letting you all know the facts. I save my money throughout the year to pay my taxes, to invest for retirement, and, of course, to travel with. I would like to make a few comments about service... <BR> <BR>I, personally, care very much that every one of my customers has an enjoyable meal at "my" restaurant. However, with the exception of presentation of the food, there isn't much else I can control about the meal itself. Without sticking my fingers in your food, I don't really know if your meal is hot, I can only be there the very second the chefs plated your meal. <BR> <BR>Same with the temps on your meat. YOU ordered it medium rare, I put the order in as medium rare, I watched the chef check the temp with a meat thermometer just before he put it on the plate, yet you got a well done piece of meat. Because this is a personal pet peeve of mine, whether or not you've complained to me, I WILL notice, and I will take the cost of the meal off your check. <BR> <BR>And, if there is something wrong with the meal, or the service, say something while you are there! If your potatoes are cold, maybe the oven is on the fritz, and no-one has realized it. There are four ovens and a grill on one side of the kitchen alone, it's hot back there. The chefs may not have noticed ONE oven, that is still throwing heat, is not actually up to temp. They will be grateful to be alerted to such a problem. <BR> <BR>With service, well, this one's tricky. There are times the restaurant is understaffed. Maybe one of the servers, or one of the chefs, called in sick at the last minute. Maybe what looked like a slow night requiring minimum staff, gets busy. It happens. I will do my best to make sure you don't suffer for it, but there is only so much I can do. If you want to tip less for what you consider slow or bad service under those circumstances, fine by me, I would understand, but I will know I've done the best job I could, and so will my manager. <BR>