NewbieVenturer

Hello all:

This may be a frequently asked question on this website. In fact, I found a topic or two along the lines of this discussion. However, I was really hoping for a more personalized answer from some Fodor's members!

I am about to graduate college and I start my first job on January 20th. I haven't had the chance to travel abroad yet (partly my fault, partly financial). I was hoping to do either a 3 week, or 1 month backpacking trip. I have to go because I feel if I don't go now, I won't go ever.

I have family in Paris, in which I was planning on visiting first OR on NYE (so I don't spend NYE alone). I would like to visit Berlin, Munich, Prague, Amsterdam, Barcelona, Venice, Rome, Florence (and of course, Paris). Those are my top destinations.

I will be traveling in the winter time and yes, I realize it will be cold. Trust me, I would much rather have the option of traveling in the Spring or Summer. But I will be slaving away in the corporate life for at LEAST two years.

Things I would really like to have the answer to:

1.) I understand hostels are cheap. Everyone I've talked to that has had traveling experience in Europe recommend hostels. Can someone give me a personal opinion on hostels? Are they safe, do you split rooms, are they really THAT much cheaper? Would I be better off on finding cheap hotels?

2.) Train or Airplane: I'm traveling on a budget. I need the cheapest form of transportation. Given my destinations, would train or plane be more efficient? I'm willing to toss out a little more cash if it means I get 8 extra hours backpack time.

3.) Are my destinations too far-fetched? Will I have time to do a little sight-seeing, visiting a few bars, eat at a few cafes, and still get a decent trip out of it? Or, should I consolidate my city choices and spend more time in the places I visit?

4.) I'm backpacking by myself. I don't know anyone who wants to shell out the cash for a 3-4 week stay in Europe. Anyone have any advice for backpacking by yourself? I would REALLY appreciate any.

5.) I'll be traveling with about $13-14,000 in my bank. I don't plan on blowing all of it on a 3-4 week trip. Can anyone estimate a budget that would allow me to backpack a little more comfortable than a homeless person?

I would really appreciate ANY answers. Thank you so much for reading this.

suze

My best suggestion is to check out The Thorn Tree, which is the forum on Lonely Planet's website. There aren't many (any?) backpackers here on Fodor's. Or their experience with this travel style is from many years ago.

PalenQ

Train or plane? Actually your countries listed are in a fairly compact area so trains will be great and if you are under 26 then you qualify for the Eurail Youthpasses, making train travel to several places really cheap - you can hop overnight trains between many cities - like Germany to Italy and save time and save on the cost of a hostel ($25 or more these days a night) - many younger folk take night trains so you may find a convivial atmosphere as well as folks from all over the world your age are riding the European rails.

For lots of great info on European trains and planning a rail trip I always spotlight these IMO fantstic sites - www.budgeteuropetravel.com (download the site's free and superb IMO European Planning & Rail Guide for suggested rail itineraries, rail maps, etc); www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com.

Barcelona and Berlin are outliers on your trip - but there are overnight trains from Berlin to many cities and from Paris to Barcelona - try an open jaw ticket - meaning flying into one city and returning from another - fly into Berlin, fly out of Barcelona for example.

Goldens

Yes, hostels are cheap. Check out www.famoushostels.com and hostel world website. My son and friends went several months. Read current reviews. This will give you an idea on various hostels and you can find the right fit. Some do have a single room (not many), but there are different size shared rooms. The more in a room, the cheaper it is. There are same gender and mixed rooms, depends on the hostel.
Try to book your spot in advance, hostels are popular year round.

Almost all hostels have free walking tours, lounges, laundry and a bar( cheap at times). You will meet others.
For staying in a hostel: bring shower shoes, a sleep sack, sleep mask, ear plugs, a quick dry towel and a lock for the locker. You will be assigned a locker to store your belongings. Lock everything up, even shoes when removed.
Beds usually have a privacy curtain.

I would suggest using a map to trace out a route. In addition to the great rail sites listed above, the German rail site (www.bahn.de) list train schedules for all countries. You can take a look and see how long it takes to travel between destinations. If you travel on a rail pass there is an extra charge on some trains for mandatory reservations. There is also an extra charge for a bunk on the overnight trains.
The nice thing about trains is that they take you city center to city center.

Good luck planning and have fun!

michelhuebeli

There is no such thing as uniform pricing in Youth Hostels, and many establishments call themselves youth hostels but are not a part of the Hostelling International organization. That doesn't mean they're bad, just unpredictable, while the HI establishments maintain certain standards.

Start by looking at the HI website www.hihostels.com and search for the individual cities and what's available in each. Rooms vary, there is multiple occupancy, single-occupancy, separated by gender or not, maybe a kitchen where you can do your own thing (saves a ton of money!), some have cafeteria-style meals - research them one by one and take notes.

Your list of cities might have to be culled a bit, you risk chasing all over Europe in the worst of seasons (short days, good chance of uncomfortable weather, etc.), without getting a really good look at any of the places, so less will be more. You'll be back, Europe has been there since before the Romans and isn't about to go away, despite the gloomy stories in the press...

mlgb

The hostel review website that I like to use is hostelz.com and yes, there is also hostelworld.com

Congratulations on graduating with money in the bank and landing your first job. You deserve a trip!

Jean

Your list involves 6 countries in 3-4 weeks. Too much. You'll spend a lot of time moving around.

I suggest you study some guidebooks, train timetables and a map and reduce your list. You'll probably conclude that some of these destinations are too far for the amount of time you'd likely spend there.

Have you investigated your flight options and the possibility of flying into one city and out of another?

NewbieVenturer

Wow, thank you to everyone for all of the responses and providing resources to look at for the trip.

Suze: Thanks for your advice on looking at another forum for this topic. I will make sure to ask the members on that website these questions as well. Cheers!

PalenQ: I appreciate all of the train information. Maybe I could plan an overnight train ride to Barcelona and Berlin from where I am, and just sleep during the ride - wake up and get going!

Goldens: Sounds like you have some great information from your son's experience abroad. Thanks for those tips, I'll make sure to check out that website you listed as well.

Michelhuebeli: I appreciate you mentioning the Hostel International organization, I have never heard of such a thing. Also, you are one of the two people who have - within 45 minutes - suggest I consolidate my list of cities. This may be a good idea, I appreciate it. And yes (ha!), right you are about Europe not disappearing - however, I sometimes fear I'll get wrapped up in the working world and be limited on travel.

Mlgb: Thank you for the additional hostel review website! Also, for the compliment - I appreciate it! Cheers.

Jean: You are the second to advise I cut down my destination list. I suppose I should be realistic and try to consume as much as I can out of my trip. I'll definitely read a few guidebooks, look at some train timetables, and decide on a list maybe half the size.

I haven't investigated flight options. I'm going to be spending the next week or so digging in to details about this trip - I'll make sure to outline all of my available flight options.


Thanks so much everyone, happy adventures!

suze

You're welcome

Oh, and yes I do think 9 cities in 30 days is a bit too much.

How I do the math is subtract 0.5 days each time you move place to place. So that give you less than 3.0 days in each city and a LOT of time sitting on trains watching the world go by (even if you use a few overnight trains). I'd probably knock at least 2 destinations off you list.

longhorn55

My college-aged kids did a 3-week backpacking tour in Europe a couple years ago. My daughter did all the planning as she had done a year of study abroad in Ireland a year earlier and had done a lot of weekend trips on her own so she was familiar with European airlines, trains and hostels. She filled me in on their plans before they went, so I have a good idea of the back-packing planning process.

First of all, you have way too many destinations for the amount of time you have. If you try to visit all those places, you will be spending a lot of time travelling and not so much time sightseeing.

Second, both of my kids swear by HostelWorld.com. My daughter says the reviews are accurate and very helpful in finding a good hostel. Not all hostels are like a dorm. You can find single rooms too. (They never booked the dorm rooms.) A hostel would probably be preferable to a cheap hotel because you'll find like-aged people to sightsee or travel with.

Thirdly, while I am sure that you are busy in your last semester of school, spend as much time as you can researching this trip. Knowledge is power and you don't want to get to Europe and just be wandering aimlessly because you don't know what to see or do. Checking in here is a good first step.

Congrats on your graduation and job.

NewbieVenturer

Thanks again Suze! Now three people have said that there are way too many destinations on my list. I guess I'll have to go back again sometime...

Longhorn55: I appreciate it! (even if you are a UT longhorn, ha!). I'm working on cutting down on my list right now. I'll definitely check out HostelWorld.com, thanks for the resource. Also, your daughter did it right! I would have loved to spend a year studying abroad somewhere - there's always graduate school I suppose. Thanks for the congrats - take care!

michelhuebeli

If you have three weeks, starting in Paris and ending in Venice would be the max. If it’s a month, add Florence. It will still not be a leisurely trip, but you’re young and impatient, so why not?

You can fly into Paris and home from Venice (the departures from Venice tend to be a bit early in the day, but you can do it), or from Florence. This kind of ticket is called “Multi-City” or “Multi-Stop” on airline websites, (“open-jaw” in the vernacular), and usually doesn’t cost more than a straight return flight, or even if it does, it saves you a ton for not having to backtrack across Europe just to go board a plane.

The most logical route you’d take would be Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin, Prague, Munich, Venice, and maybe Florence.

Travel late in the day if possible, just in time to arrive to refresh and crash, so you don’t waste half a day sitting on a train. Unless you find a bargain that doesn’t go late in the day.

Within 60 or - on most systems - 90 days of your trip you can book tickets and often save money with advance discounts that you see on the individual systems’ websites. Also loook for the "youth" fare (to age 25).

Paris-Amsterdam by fast train takes a good 3 hours. www.thalys.com or www.voyages-sncf.com are your sites. Or save money by taking a coach, see
www.idbus.com/line/paris-bercy-amsterdam -
for as little as 39 Euros, but it takes a lot longer.

From Amsterdam to Berlin you can take the night train lvg at 19:01, it gets into Berlin at the early hour of 04:26, but you’ll find something to eat, Berlin is the most happening cutting-edge modern city of all of Europe (my asbestos suit is firmly in place, expecting flames from Londoners and others...). Or go with www.eurolines.com on a youth fare of 54 euros for example.

Trains at www.bahn.de or the Eurolines coaches get you to Prague, and a somewhat clumsy train/bus combination, also at www.bahn.de, or Eurolines, get you from Prague to Munich. (There are still no high-speed train tracks on that stretch.)

From Munich to Venice (Santa Lucia station) the night train (lvg. 23:40 arr. 08:33) might again be the way to go, saves you the money and time for a night spent elsewhere and gets you there by breakfast time. Check this website for info on night trains and such: www.seat61.com

As an alternative to some of these overland trips you might choose to fly with a low-cost carrier, they are hugely popular in Europe, more than half of all flights are taken on those, but you need to keep an eye on the luggage restrictions and adhere strictly or the flight won’t be low-cost any more. See www.skyscanner.com and whichbudget.com.

Happy planning!

michelhuebeli

About rail travel: With the options of budget flights and cheap coach rides as mentioned in my previous post, it is not an absolute given any longer that a rail pass will save you money, but in your case it might. You have to do quite a bit of homework to figure it out. Do it at these sites:

www.railsaver.com
www.ricksteves.com/rail/rail_menu.htm
www.eurail.com

dulciusexasperis

I agree that in travel, less is more. The less you move the more time you have to see and do things in places.

I also second checking the Thorntee. All you have to do is a little lurking reading some of the numerous posts there on backpacking in Europe to see the same answers being given over and over.

Received wisdom is that a backpacker staying in hostels, eating supermarket food and paying for the occasional museum entry or odd beer (odd as in rare, not 5 a night)needs at least 50E a day to get by. Roughly $2000 US for 28 days. That does not include transportation costs between places.

Whether to use a rail pass or point to point tickets depends on how many places, how far apart. The best website to get a handle on how to compare the two is http://www.seat61.com/

I do note you have a list of cities. That's what most people do but consider this. A country is often far more than its cities. Some will argue that you could leave out all the cities and learn far more about a country by visiting only towns and villages. You might want to consider a mix of cities/towns/villages rather than just cities.

PalenQ

Whether one wants flexibility to chose which trains to take once there and not have to book often months in advance in stone and then not be able to change or refund is the choice - young folk IME often meet others in hostels, on trains, etc and decide to join up with them - this happened to me and many on our first trips.

So flexibility means a railpass is a great deal for such travel but if you have your itinerary nailed down in stone then see if the discounted tickets are better - but you may not always be able to go one - especially on some international routes and then if you have to pay full price for that - ouch!

Railpasses should not be judged simpluy on dollars and cents -Mn in Seat 61 says this above here or in another thread. And of course the Youthpasses are often better than a string of dicounted tickets and yields full felxibility in most countries .

PalenQ

anyone on this type of trip should get a copy of Let's Go Europe - the Bible for young backpacker Americans traveling around Europe - tremendous rundown of cheap digs to stay - not only hostels but youth hotels, student dorms, ski dorms, budget hotels, B&Bs - critiquing them.

Plus there is a wealth of other practical info that even with the day of the Internet is hard to find as quick as you can in a book like this.

Mimar

Traveling in December imposes certain conditions on your trip. The days are shorter, many sights outside the cities may be closed, others have shorter hours. So it's better to stick to cities in the winter.

But you still have a long list to edit. I look at the photos in the DK guidebooks and check the ratings (worth a journey, worth a detour, etc.) in the green Michelin guides. Also Rick Steves lists the sights to see if you have 3 days in a city, 5 days, etc. Hopefully you have time to do some of this research.

dulciusexasperis

Huh, I thought Lonely Planet's Shoestring Europe was the 'bible' PalenQ. But I do agree that reading several guidebooks beforehand is a good way to start getting ideas.

You can borrow them from the library or buy then used NewbieVenturer. Here's a tip re guidebooks. Even a brand new just published version is up to 18 months old (in terms of when the data was collected) when it reaches the bookstore shelf. And that is for the info that was in fact updated in the latest edition. Much of the info hasn't been changed in years.

So the point is, most info is fixed anyway, the Colosseum in Rome hasn't moved since they built it. What changes is places going out of business, prices, etc. So you can't count on any of that kind of info being certain which means a guidebook that is a few years old is pretty much as good as a brand new edition.

PalenQ

Huh, I thought Lonely Planet's Shoestring Europe was the 'bible' PalenQ. But I do agree that reading several guidebooks beforehand is a good way to start getting ideas.>

Well I am talking about one book to take along for low-budgets - LP's coverage of accommodations IME is paltry compared to Let's Go Europe - the other info very good. Look at the accommodations in LP - more and more upscale.

anyway I often check several guidebooks out of the library and photo copy the relatively few parts of the huge guides that are relevant to my places - then dispose of them as I go - yes nice to have several sources but awful lugging around several books.

dulciusexasperis

It's called 'download' PalenQ, no need to photocopy which I believe is a copyright issue in any case.

You can download each chapter you want from an LP guidebook to your iPad or whatever. Weighs nothing. ;-)

LP has gone upmarket in its accommodations though I agree. Trying to appeal to a broader market.

Ah the days of 'Europe on $5 a Day' my own first 'bible' to Europe.