Hi,

above all - do not let this ruin your vacation!!! cannot stress that enough. this is your vacation! as unfair as she may be.

I know you're not confrontational, but you might want to either buck up and lay it out for her, and don't back down, or, just resign yourself that you'll be shorted certain times and just resolve not to let it get to you.

how does your mother feel about it? who invited her? you know, since it's her friend, you could if you wanted ditch the two of them every so often and just go off on your own once in a while.

reedpaints

Chances are, no matter what plan you make at you pre-trip dinner, you will still run into moments of "frugality" on the trip. You must decide in your own mind not to let these moments affect your mood or ruin your trip. While I don't like to think that you will be treated unfairly when paying the bill, prepare to grin and bear it since you're stuck with your mom's friend and her unfortunate attitude.

As flygirl said, since it's inevitable, don't let it get to you. Take amusement that, yet again, she's succombing to her money mania. Give your mom a wink and a nod as it happens. Pay the bill and think of it as paying for the joy of traveling with your mom. I would gladly treat every fodorite to dinner if it meant I could share just one more meal with my dad who passed away a few years ago. Think of this trip as precious time with your mom and forget about her friend. Keep a scorecard of Frugal's transgressions and give us a full report when you return. We'll all share in the laughter and express the appropriate amount of amazement and sympathy at such unfriendly behavior.

It seems women are the worst when it comes to paying a check. Splitting the bill is a major imposition and usually the one who makes the less money is the one who readily agrees to pay the equal share.

Mimosa:

You are SO right. I did not want to get involved so to speak but, I can say that with men I have never encounted any of this bill splitting crap...never.

Again, as stated on a thread like this a few years ago: I do not dine with penny pinchers or cheap folks.

We...my very close group of friends... all take turns picking up the "ladies who lunch" tab or the "Diva's Dinner" tab or the cocktail tab or the brunch tab or whatever the tab might be. That is what friends do in my circle.

Friends of friends who are invited to join us they follow our lead. The first time they are treated...the second time they grab the tab...by the third time they are in the rotation.

We do not have calculators nor do we pause when the check comes. One picks it up and discretely takes care of it!

And again, as I said last year or the year before men often pick up our whole tab just because. When asked why? they reply because you looked like you were having so much fun...or, you all look beautiful or, we were wondering how many of you are single!

It's all in good fun, flirtation and the like. No man has ever had to be whacked upside the head with our designer purses...we just smile and continue chatting, sipping or whatever.

Sorry, I do have to disagree about the men vs. women thing. In a social setting, maybe you are correct, but the only moochers I've run into in professional situations and/ lunches with work colleagues have been men. Like the guy who NEVER brought his wallet, and never paid up. One time we conspired to break this behavior. We all said we'd left our wallets or purses back at the office (keeping a straight face as we went around the table was tough!), and we insisted that he go back to retrieve his while we waited for his return. By the way, this guy is extremely wealthy. Hmmm.

Hey what's with this term "moocher"? A moocher in my book is someone who loiters, hangs about, skulks.

Is "frugal" the description you're looking for? To me "frugal" is thrifty, careful: someone who pays their way but who will choose the cheapest thing on the menu (and who therefore won't want to split the bill down the middle or "take turns" at picking up the tab).
Not fun to travel with, but not too bad either.

The ones to watch are the "bludgers", those with short arms and deep pockets who are never around when the bill arrives or never have the cash on them at the appropriate time and who are quite happy to let others pay for them.

Hi everyone! I?m back from my month in Italy (trip report as soon as I recover) and I need to update you on this particular issue. Or should I say VENT about this issue! Of course those of you who warned me about the differences of cheap vs. frugal, etc. were right on the money. Now add in (come to find out after 30 days traveling together) DISHONEST as well as CHEAP, and you have a trip from hell.

But I digress: Before I say any more, please let me preface this entire update with the fact that my mom and I had a wonderful, magical, absolutely fantastic trip despite our travel partner. I wouldn?t change anything if it weren?t for her. She is the ONLY downer to the entire vacation, by and far.

You were all right. Absolutely right. And it started almost from moment one: I had explained to her that all of our accommodations were to be paid for via cash. She had argued and told me she had traveled extensively and she could use her credit card. I explained that the apartments were cash only. I even gave her a print out in black and white of what her portion was for each and every stop. We get to Rome and we meet with the first apartment manager and begin to sit down to pay and she asks if she can pay with her credit card. Of course he tells her the same thing I did and she pouts for two days about it. Then she proceeds to ask my mom for money (cash) as she has not brought enough. I kid you not. I think she had about 400 euros on her to start and only her credit card. She didn?t even get an ATM for the trip (she said ? and I quote ? ?I don?t live my life like that?). Well my mom knew that I had explained all of this and she knew going in so she was not about to front her the money and the woman ended up having to go to the American Express office and get a cash advance on her credit card. Then she had the audacity to tell me that I had not been clear enough and she pouted for another few days. It went on and on like this.... She fought over the littlest of things and I?m afraid restaurants weren?t even the worst of it. Frankly, after two meals together, we just stopped eating together. The only other meals we had together (and there were very few) we made sure we were at places like Cafe Brek where you pay separately (I know you foodies are fainting right about now). At the first meal she ended up practically in my lap yelling about what my mom and I owed and pointing her finger at both of us. Then, after we paid far more than our share (neither one of us is good at confrontation or figuring out money when someone is pointing a finger!), she got home and said we owed her 10 euros more! It was just worse from here. She wouldn?t tip without a fight. A BIG fight. Her idea was that she would never see these people again. And when we did tip (and I always made sure we did!) she would get mad at what I would pay. Or she would say things like ?I don?t owe him because I didn?t ask him to carry my bags.? It was just absolutely horrible dealing with someone like this. She slept with her purse (I am NOT kidding) like we were going to steal her money while she slept. She would never leave the apartment before we did as if she was afraid we would go through her things (although she certainly had no problem going through ours as I caught her at it red-handed a few times). She was mad almost the entire trip and faught about each penny. I can?t even begin to explain all the other little things that happened as there are so many... just suffice it to say that that one should choose who they travel with very wisely. I thought I knew this person. My mom thought she knew this person. We ended up not knowing her at all. She lied about things, she was beyond cheap and she was the absolute ?Ugly American? tourist that I?ve heard so much about. It was embarrassing. My only revenge in this entire situation is that I?m pretty sure she had the worst trip of her life (although I?m certainly convinced it was at her own hand and doing) and we had the best one. She spent a lot of money to get to these places and ended up doing very little. She didn?t like art so she went to about one museum. She didn?t like churches. She didn?t like the Italians (and they HATED HER which was really quite funny). One time in particular in Venice she was trying to figure out the cost for a Vaporetto ticket to the place where we were staying and she shoved the piece of paper in the window with the name and expected the ticket man to read the name and tell her what she wanted. He just sat there and stared at her. I mean, STARED AT HER. In all the weeks we had been in Italy not once had she tried to speak their language. Not once had she said thank you. Not once had she said anything to them and this was the moment of truth to me. Right then and there I loved the Italians more than I ever had. His stare said a thousand words. They had never been anything but kind to me even when I murdered their language. The point was, I tried and it was appreciated. I got pretty darn far with my limited repertoire and I had no trouble. On the other hand, this woman couldn?t get a word out of most of them. Money is the most important thing to her in the world and it must have really hurt to spend what this trip cost her and hate every minute of it. I am a nice person and I don?t like saying these things particuary but when I say she deserved everything she experienced for the past month, I truly mean it. She coud have easily ruined this trip for us but we made it work regardesss of her. In the end, it ony served to amuse us that someone this educated coud be so bloody stupid and cheap. It?s sad that it didn?t work out but it?s certainy a good lesson for all. Most of al, US. Anyway, just thought I?d send this updated version!

Wow! This is way beyond frugal, this is pathological! I'm glad that you and your mom didn't let her spoil your trip.

I'm sorry that our predictions happened !! Some of have similar experiences and know how you feel now and when you were on the trip.

I am glad though that your mom and you had a good time in spite of the psychopath!

I can't wait for the trip report!! Rest up and then give it all to us.

Thanks for the update and I am so sorry for the anguish and annoyance this person caused you. I do hope you did get confrontational back a few times!!

I think I will never bicker over anything with my husband again...!

I just re-read your account because I am so horrified and SeaUrchin said it quite well, what a psychopath!
We are a newly married couple in our mid-twenties and this makes me think twice about accepting offers to travel with other couples we know. We enjoy traveling on our own and I am leaning towards keeping it that way!

Wow. I can totally relate to what it's like with the travel companion from hell.

Went through my own ordeal this past spring - in fact, I recognized a lot of the same behaviors that you listed in the person that traveled with us (except the sleeping with the purse bit - that's pretty paranoid).

There's a difference in "knowing" someone and "knowing" you can travel with someone. Most times it's not the same thing. I speak from painful experience. :)

she sounds mentally ill, frankly. sorry all of our predictions came true. :(

but at least you got rid of her at mealtimes!

and had a nice trip regardless!

..happy that you and your Mother otherwise had a great trip..Have you ever seen an old Audrey Hepburn movie called 2 for the road? If not, rent it. There is a wonderful trip that they do with another couple who turn out to be travel companions from hell. Buy a big bag of popcorn, invite your mother over and have a good laugh!

So glad to hear the cheapie didn't ruin your trip. Can't wait to hear the details of your good times in a trip report.

Just think of all the material you will have for future "worst travelling companion" threads!

I am very happy that you and your mom had a wonderful trip - I also just returned from a trip to Italy with my parents and it was one of the best times we ever had.

Your Mom needs to get rid of this toxic "friend." Even reading about her makes me feel queasy. I think she definitely sounds like she needs professional help.

The Italian people are one of the most gracious, tolerant, kind and well mannered people I have ever met. Causing them to "hate" her must have taken a great deal of unforgivable behaviour.

Hopefully, your next trip will be just you and your mom, and I sincerely hope your mom breaks away from this miserable, common, lowlife.

Ciao, Anne

What a story! I hope that you and your mother won't be seeing this woman again. I am glad that you turned your
trip into a successful one because it could have been totally ruined.
You certainly will have plenty of stories to tell about the traveling companion from hell!! I look forward to your trip report.

reedpaints- Thank you so much for revisitng this thread with the results. This is one of those times it's no fun to be right (as one of the posters who tried to give warning & helpful pre-trip advice).

But a great reminder to the rest of us... be VERY careful who you choose to travel with. I have many dear friends, but only a couple I'm willing to leave the country with!

Ohmyohmyohmy.
First of all, reedpaints, thanks so much for following up. It's a bit odd to be so involved in someone's personal life and then never hear how things turned out, so kudos to you.

Next, I think this is a reinforcement to "trust your feelings, Luke." Intuition is sometimes trivialized or scoffed at, but it usually comes from subtle cues that may not be easily put into words, but that are quite valid -- as you found out.

The Italians, in general, are such a warm, friendly people, that to dislike them and to have them return the feeling speaks volumes about this woman. It's too bad you were in an apartment together, or you could have ditched her entirely and just watched the news for the international incident she was sure to cause on her own.

I'm so glad that you and your mother were able to have a great trip in spite of her.