Here's an alternate suggestion:

Why not put the finances of meals in the hands of the "frugal" person?

You and your Mom can either give her a lump sum and she'll pay for your meals from that lump sum until it runs out; or, you and your Mom calculate your share at each meal and then hand over your shares to the friend and have her pay the total.

Just tell her during your planning stage that responsibilities should be spilt up: she's responsible for paying for the meals, you will be responsible for buying train tickets, and your Mom will be responsible for whatever.

This way you and your Mom will know that you have paid your share and the question of whether the friend is frugal or not does not become your responsibility.

Planning can be fun. She'll probably have valuable input as well. No need to antagonize anyone and get the entire trip off on a poor start.

Hope this helps!

(This is my second attempt to post a response to this thread. Hope the first response doesn't suddenly pop up and everyone is saying, "What the...?")

oh dear - no way I'd trust my lunch money to Frugal Franny. I don't want to live on soup all vacation.

if she's as bad as you say, let her fend for herself. tell each waiter that you need two checks, up front.

I think it will cost you considerably more to put the finances in the hand of the Frugal One.

Don't put the finances in the hand of the "frugal one"! I traveled with someone like that previously. She would count up what eveyone else put in and just put in the difference for the exact total amount. Someone else counted the money as a double check and noticed that we somehow ended up with no money for tip even though everyone else had put in their tip (she NEVER put in a tip).
She also ordered the most expensive dish and most drinks then want to split the bill evenly (still not tipping so we came up short)! We stopped splitting after we saw that.
We also did the pool-the-money-thing for common charges such as taxis but had problems too. She contributed initially then for later collections, would insist she had already contributed when she hadn't (only 4 of us then so it was REALLY obvious).
djkbooks is right about people with this particular trait being difficult in other ways too. She certainly was. Wanted us to cater to HER preferences during the trip. Needless to say we don't travel with her anymore.

Forgot to say how we handled it. Had one person (not "frugal one") tell people what each one owed. She still shorted us but it wasn't worth ruining the trip by constantly arguing with her. We got separate checks when we could (she didn't come with us to Italy). We just didn't include her in any future trips.

I'd be interested to know if this person is frugal in the sense that she will rip you off if you don't watch out, or if she simply likes to economize. If it's the first case, she will be unpleasant to travel with. If it's the second case, it will be easy to add up what her food costs.

niblette has it right. I've also seen a twist: at times the person collecting cash to put the bill on their credit card and hold the cash... finds that certain people were so far off, they are making up a HUGE difference. (tax AND tip, folks - not either/or/neither)

I've seen both kinds, many times - and what annoys you is the same person does it to EVERYONE until they wise up to her. meanwhile same person brags about all the crap they bought... isn't this dress cute tee-hee.

I don't mind paying extra when a friend is short, I especially don't mind when a friend is broke.. but if it's cluelessness or taking advantage of all others' good nature - welp, leave em home and let em wonder why.

This isn't such a big deal, because as I recall, you don't have to worry about tax and tip in Italy (as Ira mentioned). Tell her you are keeping a record of her expenses so she doesn't end up overpaying (she won't quibble with that.) I would take some index cards, or a small notebook. When she orders, write down her items (won't be many, she'll only order the soup...) AND the price from the menu. Tell her you are only writing her orders down because you and your mom have agreed to split the rest, and will be handling finances after the fact so keeping her record is simplest. Then when each bill comes, you can tally up her portion with no quibbling. She ordered it, she pays. Then you just have to worry about the small amount of the tip that is over and above what restaurants include in the menu prices. Thank goodness prices include VAT too.

When we were in college this was a big issue, because some of us were on very strict budgets, and others were extravagant and rich. The index card system was a bit funny, but it worked. (And sometimes we found BIG errors in a restaurants bill...like when they included stuff on our order that went to the next table.)

I agree with ddgattina that this should not be such a big thing. You and your Mom should just handle the check and let your frugal friend pay for what she orders and add in her share of the VAT and tip. If that's 15% then she can pay 5% of what she ordered. It's true that it won't come out quite even for the tip and tax but maybe you can work that out with her.

I just got back from my trip to London and Paris with my two daughters and a friend I have known since high school. She is frugal, doesn't drink and is fussy about what she eats. When we all went to New York together a year ago, we seemed to spend alot of time fussing about restaurants and who payed for what. This time I was not going to let that mess up my trip. Since I was paying for myself and my two daughters it made sense for me to take charge of the bill. My friend gave me her share and it worked out fine. We tried to pick moderate price restaurants and if all she wanted to order was a salad and water, that was her decision. My Mom(who knows my friend)said, "Don't worry about her, if she wants to eat great, if not she is an adult and can make her choice". It's great that you can still get good advice from your Mom when you are 53!

I would definitely not ask for separate checks and there is no way a "frugal" person is going to go for a "pot" or taking turns paying the bill. You and your Mom will probably have the bigger portion of each bill anyway. Don't let it stress you and your Mom out. I had been worried about it on my trip but everything worked out fine (even if my friend was a little hungry a couple of times).

> If that's 15% then she can pay 5% of what she ordered.

Uhuh, she can pay 15% of what she ordered. :-)

Assuming that your mother's friend is simply thrifty and not a cheat (I think that's a fair assumption or she wouldn't be a friend, would she?), I think a simple statement like: "Mom and I don't want you to pay extra, shall I note what you ordered and you can pay me directly" would suffice.

ssachida - Am I dumb or what! You're right that's 15% of what she ordered, not 5%. Obviously my math brain is not working, not that it's any good most of the time anyway!! Thanks for catching that.

Teehee! What a problem! It grows with each additional post!

I posted my suggestion based on thinking that reedpaints had a Frugal Franny on her hands, not Smoocher Sue.

Smoocher Sues are a totally different problem.

Besides, I was also thinking only of the food bill, not the tip. If reedpaints and her Mom pay for their meals, how can Frugal Franny end up Smooching off their share? She HAS to come up with her share of the food bill.

If the tip is included in the bill, then reed and Mom would have paid for meal + mandatory tip. Again, end of calculations. Frugal Franny has to come up with her share of the meal + her share of mandatory tip.

If the tip is not included, why give the tip money to Frugal? Leave your share of the tip on the table. If Frugal wants to contribute, fine. If not, fine. The waiter will notice.

Sigh.

Practically speaking, how many meals are we considering? Are the three of you going to be joined at the hip? Or will you all be wandering off - to different parts of the same museum, to different museums? If you are like normal tourists, you will not all want to see the same things - so this cuts out almost all the lunches. You could all agree on a place to meet for dinner, and it doesn't have to be every single night.

Or, to cut down argument over which restaurant, you've got three weeks and three people. Each person will be responsible for choosing the restaurants for one week and for paying the (combined and presorted through) restaurant checks for that week - no argument from the others, because they each get to choose their favorite restaurants.

Has your Mom never gone out to lunch/dinner with this friend? How do they handle the check when they are dining together?

I still believe that things can be handled diplomatically and everyone can still have fun together. It doesn't seem like that overwhelming a problem.

On the other hand, if the three of you are going to be sharing a room together, your Mom's friend could turn out to be a Snoring Sam. Now, that WOULD be a problem! :)

easytraveler- many excellent points! i would like to think any group (more than 1 person) traveling together heads out on their own now & then (but am worried that might not be the case in this situation). and i'm guessing at home they could get separate checks with more ease. oh dear, i hadn't even thought this 3 might be sharing a room... then we have more to talk about!

if three share a room, truss her up and put her in the closet! saves valuable space that way.

KIDDING. I AM KIDDING. (and giggling).

poor reedpaints, I think we scared her off.

come back?

Why does being frugal end up being labeled the same as cheap or dishonest? Just because somebody is careful with their money (maybe they don't have a lot of money to throw around), doesn't mean they are going to cheat the others. I know I'm frugal, but I completely pay my share and the standard or even more generous tip.

we take an airplane barf bag and each traveller chips in about $25/day for incidentals (someone then is custodian of the barf bag and tries to jot down what we have used it for!) At meals we then just round up checks for the ease of dividing and tipping and divide in our head. everyone then just tosses in their share. it has never been a big problem. just remember once in awhile to gently remind your "frugal" friend if he/she is shorting you. you could give he/she a calculator. that may shame somene into paying their fair share!

nocinonut makes a very good point. All the "frugal" people I've ever known are really trying to get out of paying their fair share, and hope you won't notice or do anything about it if you do. They "forget" about the taxes, don't believe in tipping, forget about something they ordered, help themselves to "just a bite" of what you're having, even finish your plate/dessert.

It's a bit silly to worry whether someone who is trying to manipulate you might "feel slighted".

When traveling with my friends we use this system:

Roughly, we take turns paying for meals, etc. (Fortunately, we do not have a "frugal" person in the group.) Sometimes convenience will dictate one person buying all the train tickets/museum tickets too. We have one person with a small notebook record all expenditures and who paid.

At home after the trip, we figure out who owes who and we pay up when we get together to see trip photos. Meals are divided equally since we all enjoy wine. Interestingly, it all comes out pretty even!

paula1470, the point I made above is that both tax and service charge are included in the amount you see on the menu, so it is very easy to add up what that one person has ordered. If she chooses not to leave an additional tip on the table, that's her business and reedpaints shouldn't worry about it. Once they've figured out what Frugal Friend owes, they can just split what remains. So simple! And as others have pointed out, this type of person will not agree to a kitty.