Barbara

Our family of 5 will be spending three nights/2 days in the Zurich area in late June. We will be on a very limited budget (not a good situation in Switzerland, I know) We plan to rent a car and explore. I have several questions: <BR>1. Do we need to make hotel reservations before we go, or will we be able to play it by ear and find economical lodgings on the spur of the moment? <BR>2. How long does it take to drive from the Zurich airport to Lucern or Interlaken? <BR>3. Is it possible to hike in the mountains or near the top of some mountains in that area without paying exorbitant prices for cable cars, etc? <BR>4. Is the little triangle between the three passes (Sustenpass, Furkapass, etc.) worth driving? <BR>5. Any can't-miss recommendations? <BR>Answers to any of these questions will be much appreciated! <BR>

Bob Brown

Q 1. I wish I could help you on that one. In Zinal, we stayed at a hotel in early September and it was half empty. <BR>The big part of the ski season is over, so I think that you should find rooms around ski resorts. Zurich is a business town, so hotels tend to run full. I have not tried staying in a hotel in the Interlaken area. We rent(ed) an apartment for a week in Lauterbrunnen. <BR>2. We drove to the airport in Zurich from Lauterbrunnen in a driving rain storm in about 2 hours and 10 minutes. <BR>A lot depends on when you do it because Zurich traffic is fierce. You have a choice of routes -- Luzern or Bern. <BR>I recommend going via Bern because you have Interstate like conditions all the way once you leave the airport area. <BR>Going by Luzern involves some slow road and the descent of the Brunig Pass. Luzern is about an hour, depending upon when you try to drive it. <BR>Q3. In a word, not many trails exist that you can hike where the mountain tops are in full view, but there are some. If you have stout legs and don't mind steep approach hikes that eat time, I have found a few trails that you can navigate without a lift. Some of those valley sides are incredibly steep. <BR>There are some walks around Grindelwald where you can see the mountains, but you are looking up. For example,you can hike up to Grosse Scheidegg from Grindelwald and get a good view of the Eiger and others. <BR> <BR>In Val d'Anniviers, we took a hike last year from Barrage de Moiry, near Zinal, to Cabana de Moiry which was a climb of 2,000 feet in short order. No cable lift involved. <BR> <BR>In Lauterbrunnen, you can go to the end of the valley, Stechelberg, and find a trail that goes up to some alpine lakes and mountain hotels. There is no lift on this trail, and it is beautiful. The big giants of the range are right in front of you. It takes some doing to reach the lake (Oberhornsee) and the hotels, but it is lovely. <BR> <BR>From Stechelberg, you can take a short lift ride to Gimmelwald and hike to a mountain dell known as the Kilchbalm. <BR>It is in a deep valley, but to the east the Jungfrau is in near full view. <BR>The trail ends in a cirque where you are entrapped by high mountain walls, ice, water falls, and cows. A lovely place. <BR>Also, a short ride up the lift in Lauterbrunnen takes you to Grutschalp. <BR>From there you can walk to Murren and have the most gorgeous view you will see. You can walk up to Grutschalp from Lauterbrunnen, but the trail is very, very steep. You can also come down it, but it taxes the ankles and knees. <BR>Q4 YES!! And there are trails up there that you can hike. And a place to park your car. But, it can be cold up there. Windy and cold!! <BR>Let me think on Q5. I will consult my hiking guide by Kev Reynolds and see if I can spot something that gets you up without paying lift fees, which are not cheap.

Bob Brown

I need to reword my answer to Question 3. There are not many trails that you can hike where the mountain tops are in full view without taking a lift of some type. There are a few, but most of the hikes that have gorgeous views are on top of something or other. You either ride the lift or take a long approach hike that is steep and taxing. <BR>But there are some, which I tried to identify in my earlier post. I wrote the first one too hastily it appears and did not proof it carefully enough before posting it. (I had a major iterruption.)

Ed

Hotel Reservations <BR>Likely you'll find something in the economical range. Although, June is the beginning of peak tourist season. As well, budget accommodations are limited in Zuerich. (Not necessarily Switzerland, which you'll find less expensive than you may think if you exercise a little prudence.) <BR> <BR>All in all, especially if you're at all fussy about your hotel, I'd suggest making reservations. You'll find a few recommendations at www.twenj.com/swisshtl.htm <BR> <BR>Driving <BR>Luzern is about 75 minutes from city center. Interlaken about 2-1/2-three hours. The road from Luzern southward goes over the (very pretty) Brunig Pass and is a bit slow because of trucks. From Interlaken it's another half hour to the mountains to the south where you want to go. I'd recommend an excursion from Lauterbrunnen to the Schilthorn via Muerren. See www.twenj.com/swissoneday.htm <BR> <BR>Mountain Walks <BR>Zuerich not mountainous. Lovely hilltop walk at Ueetliberg, a short train ride (20 minutes) from the main station. (Train or foot only.) Plenty of walks in the area south of Interlaken. You'll find some sketched in www.twenj.com/swisswalk.htm You'll find suggested mountain excursions (lifts) sketched and priced at www.twenj.com/swmountaintrips.htm <BR> <BR>Three-pass drive <BR>This is my favorite drive in the world. You'll find it quite enjoyably spectacular. <BR> <BR>Unless you have a reason to stay in Zuerich, given your interests you may be better off staying in Luzern. Prices a tad better, and more convenient to things you seem to want to do. Alternatively, Interlaken, Lauterbrunne or Grindelwald. <BR> <BR>Rome.Switzerland.Bavaria <BR>www.twenj.com

Bob Brown

I have reviewed my hiking books and here is what I have come up with so far: <BR>1. Stechelberg to Oberhornsee <BR>7.5 K, altitude gain of about 1150 meters, about 3,700 feet. Quite a bit, depending upon your conditioning. <BR>There are two mountain hotels along the way. Berghaus Trachsellauenen is one of them, Hotel Obersteinberg is another one along the same route. Although these mountain hotels are not cheap, they do offer a way to spend the night well away from the roads. The Obersteinberg advertises a price of 73 chf per day including two meals. That is about $250 for 5 of your. The "dorm rooms" are cheaper, but I have not experienced that kind of communal living. I have been told that you are provided blankets but not sheets. And you sleep in a bunk with a pad or, in some cases, in the straw. Someone more experienced with that type of sleeping arrangement will have to fill us in. <BR> <BR>2. The hike to the Kilchbalm starts in Stechelberg with a climb of about 960 meters up to Gimmelwald. After that the trail is up and down, with no significant change in altitude. You could take the first lift stage, but I don't recall the cost for 5 tickets. None of those cable pulled cabin cars are cheap. <BR>3. Grindelwald to Stieregg. <BR>You can take a cable car, relatively cheap, up to a station that saves about 1,200 feet of climbing. Then you follow a level (as Swiss mountain trails go!!!) <BR>trail to a restaurant at a point called Stieregg. The route is directly above the lower Grindelwald Glacier and leads up a deep valley full of ice. The Eiger is to the East and, as you go farther up, all of the beautiful world of a glacial bowl opens up to you. Many of the Berner Oberland giants come into view that are otherwise seen only at a distance or not at all. The trail beyond the restaurant becomes rougher, and at one point,you traverse a deep gully by clinging to a cable. Plenty of people do it, but it is not for the faint of heart. Just hold the cable and pick you way. How far you go up toward the mountain hut is a function of what you want to do. The Rots Gufer cliffs are a barrier that turn most people back. <BR>4. Grindelwald to the Faulhorn. <BR>The Faulhorn is one of the great viewpoints in the world! You can see the lakes around Interlaken and seemingly the whole of the Berner Oberland range. I have been around the block a bit,but that view took me off my feet, literally, because the wind was blowing briskly. You can take the Post bus from Grindelwald up to Bussalp. I do not know if private cars can drive to Bussalp or not. The SBB rail web site did not have the bus price. It is a stiff walk uphill from Bussalp. <BR> <BR>I looked at the Zermatt hikes, but most of those involve a steep approach hike. And that is farther away. You also have to park, and pay, and take the train to Zermatt from Taesch. <BR> <BR>A good place for scenery that you might want to consider is in Zinal. This is the next range south of the Berner Oberland Range. The little Hotel le Trift in Zinal is a two star hotel way up in the mountains. We spent two nights there last year. The owners speaks English well -- Nicholas Guillhaume and his wife Evelyn. Kirstin the do-it-all girl, spoke French and German. From the area there are several good hikes. We took one to Cabane de Moiry. <BR>Well, this is what I have to say. Good luck.

Mary

Hi Barbara--you have such fabulous advice on hiking! We just returned from two days in Lucerne on the end of a trip to Italy--it was beautiful and had several interesting attractions. We took a boat ride up Lake Lucerne which was lovely and walked around town. Don't mean to be a wet blanket, but Lucerne is pricey--the effect was compounded for us because we had just come from Italy where a very strong dollar made for fun shopping and eating. <BR> <BR>If you do end up in Lucerne, and can stretch your budget, I highly recommend the Old Swiss House for dinner--it looks touristy, but it was full of locals and it was great. <BR> <BR>If you do decide to go to Lucerne, let us know and I'll post some more info. <BR> <BR>Mary <BR> <BR>

Bob Brown

The figure I gave for the elevation gain from Stechelberg to Gimmelwald is not correct. I am not sure what it is right now, but it is not nearly 3,000 feet. I may have confused meters and feet. Wish I had been more accurate. I would believe 1,000 feet. As a general rule, Swiss valley sides are quite steep because most of the landscaping was done by glaciers, which tend to carve U shaped valleys that are characterized by flat valley floors, steep sides, and intermediate shelves of flat terrain anywhere from 2 to 3 or 4 thousand vertical feet above the floor. The peaks can be anywhere from 5 to 9,000 feet above the floor. In Saas Fee, the Dom is at 14,900+ feet (about) while Saas Fee itself sits at the base of a glacier at about 6,000 feet in elevation. That is the most dramatic relief I have seen in Switzerland. For me it did not become mind bending until we took a cable lift up, climbed higher and higher, and the peak seemed even farther away than it did from the level of Saas Fee. I think the height of the mountain is so great that it is hard to comprehend. You know you are looking up, but just how far is difficult to guage.

Ed

Bob, it's 570 meters (~1700+ feet) from Lauterbrunne to Gimmelwald. <BR> <BR>Ed

barbara

I am overwhelmed with all the wonderful advice from Bob, Ed, and Mary. Thank you. I am going to study my map and may have more questions. We don't really plan to spend any time in Zurich (I had already decided that after reading everything on Ed's web page), but Luzern is still a possibility for a quick visit. Our family likes to get out into the countryside more than hang around in cities. I was questioning the value of doing the "Three-Pass" drive, but Ed has made me reconsider that! One other question that I am wondering about: if it rains or is foggy, what would you recommend doing (or not doing, in general)?

Ed

Good question, Barbara. Guess that would make a good added page on the website. Must remember that. <BR> <BR>First, the weather is usually pretty good in the mountains at the end of June, so with a bit of luck you shouldn't have that problem. But there are those days ... <BR> <BR>Which points up the importance of prioritizing your interests. I gather your prime interest is outdoors and strolling through the mountains. <BR> <BR>A strong argument, then, for basing yourself there rather than in a city. If the weather is good, do your thing. If you're based in a city you won't know until you get there, losing valuable time, especially on a short trip. <BR> <BR>If it's not pleasant in the morning, ask the locals if they think it will clear in the afternoon. (Most won't opine ... they take it as it comes.) <BR> <BR>Even with a &gt;bit&lt; of rain or some clouds it can still be quite pleasant to walk in the mountains as we've often done. Low overcast, though, would take away the views. <BR> <BR>So what to do if you decide the outdoors is out? The casino in Interlaken, shopping there, a day trip to Bern or Luzern. Luzern would be my vote, but Bern's nice as well. <BR> <BR>If it's overcast in the mountains but not unpleasant at lower altitude consider a trip on Lake Brienz (or Thun). Visit the outdoor museum at Ballenberg. Take the trip to Schynige Platte to the Alpine Garden if the weather's not too bad ... it may clear, as well, and the view from there is wonderful. Visit Trummelbach Falls in Lauterbrunnen or the Glacier Gorge in Grindelwald. <BR> <BR>Lots of options. Hopefully not needed. Again, the weather is &gt;usually&lt; good in the mountains at the time you'll be goin

Bob Brown

With reference to the elevation differential between Stechelberg and Gimmelwald, I finally found the right book, the one by Kev Reynolds. Gimmelwald is 453 meters higher than Stechelberg. That multiplies out to about 1486 feet. Given that Gimmelwald is on a hillside, I don't know his reference point, but it is a steep walk up there. <BR>I liked Luzern, but I will admit it is touristy. The Transportation Museum is wonderful; a great place to visit with youngsters. There are exhibits on all forms of transportation. The one I found the most interesting was the one on the mountain lift systems because I had never seen an exhibit quite like it before. There are airplanes, train cars, locomotives, and waterways exhibits. If you get a rainy day, that is a good place to go. There are some other good museums in Luzern as described in the Fodors guide to Switzerland. Another fun activity for a rainy day is to visit the cheese factory at a little berg called Afolten. It is located east of Bern. On our visit, we happened upon a cow judging contest. Being an old farm boy, I had fun watching the cows. They were the best of the prize milk cows in all of that part of Switzerland. The best of the bunch received these huge bells to wear. (In case you did not know it, the day the cows go up to the high pasture and day on which they come down is a festive event. The lead cows are dressed with "Christmas Trees" on their heads and every cow has a bell. Traffic is blocked and the cows have the streets for a parade.There is no set day for this event, it depends on the location, elevation and the weather. <BR>As you can imagine, the bells make a considerable clanging sound as the cows amble through the streets.) <BR>In my earlier comments I tried to identify hikes that did not involve expensive gondola trips. If those are to be considered, the hike from the First Gondola station above Grindelwald to the Faulhorn is a fanstasic walk on a clear day. I would rate it it tops for a walk that is easily reachable. The walks over the Sefinenfurka and the Hohturli between Murren and Kandersteg or the Kiental are spectacular, too, but they are arduous -- very tough even for young, strong hikers. Schynige Platte is right up there, too, as a place from which the views are fantastic. But it is reached only by a long, long uphill hike or a special mountain train from Wilderswil. <BR>Well, I have about pumped the well dry. <BR>We will be back this September and objective #1 is the Schilthorn. <BR>

Bob Brown

I have one more hike to suggest that does not involve taking a gondola or other type of cable-pulled conveyence. <BR>If you rent a car, as mentioned in your original posting, and drive over the Grimsel Pass, there is a building near the top known as the Grimsel Hospice. <BR>From there a trail goes to a mountain refuge known as the Lauteraar Hut -- some 10K distant. <BR>You probably will not want to go all the way to the hut because it is a long trip back. You could go as far as the glacier and turn around there. This trip would take advantage of your ascent of the Grimsel Pass by car and it would introduce you to the wild, treeless world of the upper mountains, well above pastures and forest. <BR>I have not actually walked the trail myself, but I have seen the area and looked around. By late June you hopefully will have good weather and much of the snow should have melted, but at that altitude, you have to be prepared for just about anything. I certainly would not plan on walking around up there in shorts and a t-shirt!! (As for snow, even in September you will wander across snow piles left over from the previous spring. So we always have hiking poles. Last summer going up to and coming back from Cabane de Moiry near Zinal we walked across a long snow bank. By that late in the season it was packed hard and very granular. Even with vibram soles on my boots, I would have slipped around considerably had I not been able to ram my pole into the snow for extra support. Of course those poles take up space in the luggage and not everyone needs them. I do because I tend to be a little clumsy.) <BR>I don't know how much experience you have had hiking the type of terrain you will find above the tree line in Switzerland, so if I can be of any assistance on that aspect of your trip, please email me directly. My address is not a phony. Even though I probably should not use it because of all the canned ham of the inedible variety I get.)

barbara

<BR>All your help has been wonderful. I've got more specific questions which I will ask in a new message. Thank you.