JillPowell

We are planning a 14 night trip to Germany and Italy in July-August 2014. It will be our 20th wedding anniversary trip, but we will be bringing our 14yo daughter and 11yo son with us. We will fly into and out of Munich, Germany. We are estimating a few nights in and around Munich and Southern Bavaria regions. We definitely want to spend some time in Munich, visit the Neuschwanstein Castle, and possibly visit Dachau. Then head down thru either Switzerland or Austria and have a day or two in a recommended ski town to enjoy a hike in the Alps (we love skiing and hiking in Colorado Rockies). After that, we will cross into Italy and head south to Rome. We are open to staying overnight somewhere in between or driving straight thru to Rome. Would like to spend three or four nights in Rome and then three or four nights in Tuscany before driving back north on a different route to Munich with a one night stay somewhere close to Munich the night before our flight home.
1. Any recommendations of driving route or cities to stop at on the trip south as well as the return trip north?
We have driven thru Italy 10 years ago and visited Rome, Pisa (for two hours which was plenty), Sienna, Tuscany, Cinque Terra and Lake Como. For this trip, we definitely want to re-visit Rome and Tuscany. My husband travels to Milan, Italy several times per year for work so we can avoid that city as well. Otherwise, no opinions.
2. We did not have our car rental until we left Rome on our last visit. This time, we will have our car rental during the visit (UGH!). Will there be parking garages where a car can be left for several days? How much do they cost? Do any hotels in Rome offer parking?
3. Anything else that I should be concerned about?
Thanks for your time and anticipated responses!
Jill from Pleasant Prairie, WI USA

bobthenavigator

Why are you not flying home from Rome?
I assume you have a good reason.

JillPowell

It is ridiculously expensive to rent the car in Germany and return it in Italy. The return fee was more that the rental fee. Otherwise, that would have been our plan.

nygvic0326

I would personally ditch the car and do this by train. Munich, Neuschwanstein and Dachau can all be done locally from Munich. Oberammergau or a surrounding town can easily be reached by train from Munich and serve as a base to hike, etc.in the Alps. Then train south from there into Switzerland and Northern Italy and down to Florence / Rome. Alternatively, you could hit Salzburg / Vienna in Austria by train from Munich, then train down to Venice, Florence, Rome. To do this by car is going to involve lots of miles, difficulty in parking most wherever you go. Just my opinion on how I would do. Still a lot to cover in 14 days.

nygvic0326

Assuming 2 nights in Munich (not enough), 1 or 2 nights in Alps, 3 nights in Florence and 3 nights in Rome you have 9-10 nights of 13 (assuming at least 1 of your 14 days is either arrival or departure travel). When you factor in the movement time from place to place, in my opinion, you will be rushing yourselves for most of this trip.

JillPowell

We have 13nights/14days. I was thinking 2nights in Munich area. My husband has been there many times, but I have not. So, it is a compromise for me to see a few things. It looks like there are castles and Dauchau all very close together. We usually ski and take a summer trip to the Colorado Rockies, so I am good with just spending 2nights in the Alps. I think we will definitey spend 4 nights in Rome and 4 nights in Tuscany. The last night will be spent within a couple hours of Munich. I am mostly concerned with our travel path to and from Munich/Rome. Something scenic but not too far off the beaten path. And, whether or not we will find parking in Rome and how much the daily fee will be. I am fine with a little rushing around. We had a 24hr flight "layover" in Wash DC and viewed every major monument, white house, capitol building, gardens, visited four Smithsonian museums, etc all on foot in about 13hrs.

JillPowell

Thanks for your advice so far...much appreciated!

iris1745

Jill, listen; Driving time Munich to Rome is 9 1/2 hours and that's not considering any traffic. Then back another 9 1/2 hours.

Rome and Tuscany would be better served on another trip, as you are young people.

My wife and I have a little experience driving in Europe, as we just returned from our 27th driving trip.

If we had a month, we would consider your itinerary.

You have already been given a few alternate suggestions.

Look, if this is really what you want with kids we/I will attempt to help.

JillPowell

We really don't mind the driving. We drive 16hrs straight thru to Colorado twice a year for only 8days. Although, driving thru Nebraska is very different than driving thru Italy with so much to see and experience. OR, can the European traffic be horrific in the summer months turning 9.5hrs into 14hrs? Because that really would be awful and such a waste of our time. I know that as a family, we definitely want to visit Rome. It will probably be the only time we take our children to Europe, and they are both very excited about Rome. Our original trip plans were going to be Rome & Tuscany, but then we decided to add on the Munich portion of the trip as a little bonus. Maybe we should just change our flight to fly home from Rome and pay the huge car return fee. But, I would just hate to waste that much money. Thanks for your help!! I think I need to go to the bookstore and buy the newest Fodor's guide. Mine is 10yrs old.

mama_mia

This is strictly a matter of opinion, but I would think Munich/Bavaria would hold more interest for your children than Tuscany. I am not sure how much of Munich you can see in 2 nights, since that would really only be one full day. Your children would probably enjoy the Deutsches Museum as well as Dachau, and that would easily take a whole day. The Viktualienmarkt and the English Garden, with the surfers on the Eisbach would also be fun. You could visit Salzburg by train as a day trip.

My suggestion, for what it's worth:
3-4 nights Munich
Rent car
4 nights German countryside with car (Garmisch Partenkirchen for hikes and railway to the Zugspitze, various castles, Nuremberg, Rothenburg ob der Tauber)
Return car in Munich and fly or train to Rome
5 nights Rome with day trip to Ostia Antica or Orvieto

Jean

We drive 13/14 hours to Colorado every winter, and IMO driving in Europe is not like driving in Europe. Yes, there are "highways," but if you're wanting to see sights along the way you'll be off the highways quite a bit which means much longer driving times. Also, there are speed cameras on highways throughout Italy, so you won't be driving those U.S. highway speeds. I'd want more time for the itinerary you contemplate.

Things to consider if/when driving in Italy... Just about every small town and big city has restricted traffic zones into which you will not be able to drive (with a couple of exceptions). So, as you're motoring along, you can't just drop into a city on a whim without knowing generally where the boundaries of the no-traffic zone are, how to recognize the boundary signage, where you're going to park outside the zone, etc. Because you'll be parking outside of the historical centers of these cities and towns, you'll be walking in/out and your exploring will take a little more time. Not only will you need a fairly large car to hold 4 people and luggage, but the car must have a large enough cargo area to hold ALL of your stuff completely out of sight.

This article refers to no traffic zones in Florence and Chianti, but the subject matters apply everywhere.

http://www.slowtrav.com/italy/drivin...s_speeding.htm

Aramis

I think we have some settled points;

They have to do around trip because of the rnetal
They are aware of the distances involved
They are comfortable driving those distances
They are comfortable with the length of stays they have noted

so hopefully no more lecturing.


Jill - you have alotted the following "nights" out of 14 available;

Munich 2
Rome 4
Tuscany 4
Munich (close) 1

That leaves 3 to be "discovered".

Munich to Rome is about 9 hours straight driving. You could, of course, do that in one run. About halfway (4:15) is Verona. Well worth a stop and you could use it as a base for Padua, or Vicenza. The alpine towns/cities of Brixen/Bressanone and Bozen/Bolzano are closer to Munich and if you did Neuschwanstein on the day you left Munich you could comfortably continue on and reach them by late afternoon after visiting Neuschwanstein (less than 5 hours total driving to Bolzano). If you stayed there for a few days you could get your hiking in. Stoppin at Neuschwanstein and continuing to Rome isn't a good option as the driving alone is 10.5 hours.

Bolzano to Rome is about 6 hours.

For the return trip, Florence to Munich airport is about 6.5 hours. It would be a little longer if you were staying somewhere else in Tuscany, most of which is south and/or east of Florence.

I can't think of a great place to spend one night within a couple hours of Munich airport near the direct route back except maybe Garmisch, Mittenwald or Salzburg. Those would all pose a 1.5 - 2.5 hour trip to the airport on the day of your flight out. Have you considered driving all the way back to Munich and staying in an airport hotel the night before you leave? That gives you flexibility to stop anywhere you might like along the way for a few hours (Verona?), arrive at, or even after, dinner time, and not have any worry the next day about your driving and flight schedule colliding. I have tried it both ways and have settled on spending the second last day driving back at leisure and arriving late at an airport hotel as my preferred way to deal with this scenario.

These recommendations would give you 2 (or 3) days in the Tyrol either on the way down, or on the way back (if you drove straight to Rome from Munich) and 1 (or none, if you spent all 3 days in the Tyrol) more in Munich Rome or Tuscany.

Have you decided on whether you want to stay in Florence, Siena, or some smaller town/city in Tuscany? If you don't like the thought of having a car in Rome (not being used), the Florence puts you in the same spot and you should conside staying in another spot of Tuscany and taking a train for a day-trip(s). You could stay almost anywhere, even in a rural agriturismo, and just drive the car to the most convenient train station for the trip into Florence.

Yes of course these are expected driving times and some will want to chime in with anecdotal evidence of it taking them much longer or otherwsie just declare it could happen but we all know that. One can't expect to plan a trip on the expectation that there will be a major problem during every leg of the trip or you're not having much fun. Just think about what you could do to address a delay. You have a car, you will make it eventually.

Good luck - sounds like great road trip.

AtlTravelr

Thanks Aramis for your route suggestions. We will be doing a similar trip (booked in and out of Stuttgart with FF points) and so I am interested in what kind of response this post brings. We've never been to Verona-that definitely sounds like a good stop for us.

Jill-we did as Aramis suggested with regards to staying out in the Tuscan countryside (agriturismo with a pool) and used it as a base to explore and also to visit Florence. We did two half day visits to Florence-once driving to the local train station and once driving early and parking in the lots outside the city. Both were easy to do spur of the moment. I would also echo the suggestion to go to Bolzano. My kids were of similar ages and we all enjoyed seeing Otzi the ice man. The whole dolomite region was really beautiful. We stayed in castelrotto and hiked for a day. We did drive our car into Rome and parked it just for the night before we headed to the airport. I don't recall large parking structures like there are in Amsterdam, but research hotels and ask them about parking. For our upcoming trip we are exploring the various ways to get to Italy while still flying in and out of Stuttgart. Ill let you know if we come up with any brilliant ideas that don't include one way car drop. Finally-when wondering if there are things that could impact your car travel times, in a word, yes. We were stopped completely for over two hours on the "freeway" on our way into Rome because of a fatal car wreck. Nothing to be done and nowhere to go. Everyone got out of their cars, eventually making it up the hill to use the trees and bushes as a bathroom. We were only trying to get to Rome in time for dinner, so we were okay, but I'm glad we weren't trying to make a flight!

Dukey1

OK, I agree that if you want to do the Ludwig builds in Bavaria it is most convenient to have a car as opposed to going to Fuessen by rail or to Prien (for Herrenchiemsee), etc.

I honestly do not understand why you are unwilling to consider having a car for the Munich/Bavaria portion and THEN taking a very scenic rail trip over the Brenner Pass and into Italy.

You can easily do all the places you want to do and most importantly will have enough TIME to do by rail including Bolzano, Florence, and Rome.

I know you know how to drive and that you 'don't mind' and all that but IMO a trip like this shouldn't even CONTAIN the words "don't mind" because that means you actually ARE minding.

Aramis

She is only saying "don't mind" because folks won't stop advising her to not do it. Jill hastaking the kind route of explaining her preferences to detractors. The other choices would be to ignore the attempted redirects or something less kind.

No one else has to understand this family's reasons for wishing to take a vacation in a manner that appeals to them. It's like asking someone to justify why they married their spouse, like brussel sprouts, or don't find opera appealing.

Because they are not "you"

mamcalice

You should consider a couple of things in calculating the cost of your trip. What are you going to do with the car in Rome? Probably not drive it. Why not start in Rome, see Tuscany, train to Munich and then rent a car to see Bavaria and the Alps. Fly out of Munich. Just a thought.

Michael

I would consider an alternative (in spite of Aramis' comment about individual choices): Drop Rome, add Venice (which seems to have been left out of your Italian trips) and tour by car Ravenna, Urbino, Gubbio. It might not be Tuscany but will give as good a feel of the Italian countryside and smaller cities and towns and you will not be driving as far. For hiking in the Alps, I would consider the Dolomites which, judging from pictures only, are alpine but more different from the Rockies than the northern Alps.

msteacher

I agree that you may find it cheaper and easier to rent a car for the days you want to explore outside of Munich and Rome, but not needed for days in the city, and to take a train between cities. For example, fly into Munich, spend a day or two exploring the city, rent a car for a day or two to visit nearby areas; take train to Florence and rent car to stay in a smaller town and explore Tuscany for several days; return car in Florence and take train to Rome (or even drive Tuscany to Rome, but don't keep the car in Rome). Best to fly home from Rome, but if you must return to Munich, take the train. Of course, as mentioned above, this could all be done in reverse, or by substituting some other cities such as Venice.

The cost of train tickets will be more than made up for by renting for fewer days, avoiding the drop off fee for a different country, and using much less gas (be sure to check gas prices... you may be astonished!) Train travel will likely be faster than driving too.

JillPowell

Thanks a lot, Aramis, ATl travlr and MamaMia! I am unsure why so many people are opposed to the spontaneity and independence that driving allows. My husband has travelled throughout many European and Asian countries and rented cars. I will admit that the last time that we were in Rome, we only had our car rental the last day and it was a bit "tricky" navigating out of the city, but we managed. We had absolutely no issues with car travel and parking in many of the villages in Chianti region of Tuscany, Sienna, Pisa, Cinque Terra, Lake Como, etc. You may have to park outside of the historic city centers, but then you can walk and enjoy the sites at a slower pace. We have been stuck in many major traffic jams in the US that put an unexpected twist in travel plans, so you just have to go with the flow. I know that there are certain places that I would never rent a car, like India. I do have my limits (smiles). I love all of the dialog and great recommendations that all of you have been offering. I am so happy with all of the specifics that Aramis has offered. That is exactly what I was needing. I will be looking into all of these towns that you mentioned. We are considering a smaller Inn or villa rental with pool in Tuscan village or country-side. I did check out Salzburg for the last night prior to flying home. But, perhaps, we should stay closer to the airport to ensure we don't miss our flight home. I really appreciate all of your valuable time!!

Aramis

JillPowell said

>> I am unsure why so many people are opposed to the spontaneity and independence that driving allows.

You me and at least a few others wonder the same thing. I think it comes from a need to have ones own experiences and opinions validated; a "Do what I did" or "Do what I would do" approach to providing assistance. If you stick around here you will find that those who respond in that manner don't seem to see it and will defend their approach by stating that they are just trying to give the benefit of their great experience and keep the OP from ruining their vacation. They seem unable to understand, or even contemplate, that others might not like the same things they do.

Instead of accepting that some people love to drive on their vacations and will even park the car for days at a time in a city where it is not useful, they will simply state the train is "better", or more convenient. In response to someone who chooses to move frequently and does not plan to stay in any place for at least 3 days (or even longer in a favourite city), you will see comments about how the OP is embarking on a "grand tour" of European rail stations or highways. Frequently, these chidings are concluded with a sarcastic comment along the lines of "But do enjoy your trip!" and that is a mild example.

Watch this very thread for proof (as if 3 examples after my last post aren't enough)