Now that the bulk of the cruise industry has adopted the policy of adding set tips to your sign and sail account..[something like paying the McDonald clerk extra to deliver your hamburger]...it is my opinion that service levels have decayed. Why should they be maintained when there is no incentive for superior service and no penalty for negligence? An automatic tip is simply reducing the labor cost for the cruise line.<BR><BR>I know you can remove all or some of the tip from your account, but my experience is you have to justify this...reveal the whys and wherefores before they will reduce the amount but only after telling you your expectations are too high and their difficulty in obtaining quality personnel. [Carnival Legend]<BR><BR>True, it is convenient not to have to carry wads of $20 bills...but at what price?<BR><BR>

Lew, Why are you expressing such concern? As an alleged CCL shareholder, I thought you would be happy to see another ingenious way for CCL to reduce their labor costs.<BR>In actuality, you do know this system of adding tips to your account is meant as a convenience to most pax, and a way to cut down on the number of nasty pax who would stiff the help. It is not an automatic tip, and as you know can be adjusted up or down at the passengers discretion, absent any explanation.

As a stockholder in 20 or so other companies in addition to CCL, I am not in favor of anyone creating an environment that is not conducive to good order....including creative accounting, environmental abuse and poor customer care.<BR><BR>In my personal experience on lines with mandatory tipping [Carnival, Cunard, Princess, NCL], service levels have not been up to standard, whereas on those with voluntary tipping [HAL, Seabourn], for the most part service has been exceptional.<BR><BR>Therefore, my conclusion that mandatory tipping is not productive. Only once did I attempt to adjust a tip...and the aggravation was excessive.

Lew I would have to say that is the most intelligent commentary on the forced tipping policy I have heard to this date.<BR><BR>I agree. Automatic tipping omits any incentive for the personnel to do a better job than the status quo.<BR><BR>Also, removing tips must be done at the end of the cruise more often than not when people are in a rush to check out. Thereby making it near imposible to adjust the tipping properly. Hence you give up in frustration.<BR><BR>This is one more way for the cruise lines to hide the true expense of going on one of their ships as opposed to an AI. <BR><BR>To the people that promote this system. A question, &quot;How do you propose to get the added sercie that tipping once gave you?&quot;

I personally would NOT have any tippin added to my bill for the exact reasons Lew states-- What incentive do the people have to give good service? Answer: NONE<BR><BR>Also, how do we,as consumers, know for sure if the correct people are getting those enforced tips...<BR><BR>Seems like the cruise lines are making their employees indentured servants...<BR><BR>I, for one, will stay with Celebrity and RCL and Windstar- as I can tip as MUCH as I want ( and not just the minimum pittance that these poor people expect to make.....<BR><BR>I have spoken to too many friends who HATED having the tips added to their accounts and did endure the same abuse at the purser's desk when they wanted them removed....<BR><BR>There is NO WAY that Carnival will ever be like Seabourn,Silversea etc where tipping is not required ( it is a built-in cost) but the service is exceptional and if you want to tip more,that is icing on the cake to the employees....<BR><BR>This is just the cruise lines way of making sure that the TIPS ar taxable income . Aren't these waiters,cabin stewards etc working hard enough for the pittance they are legally paid- Let the tips be just that.....

And Andy--- what country would be getting that taxable income?

On three of my last cruises I asked the waiters which they preferred, automatic or self-tipping. Two stated automatic was better and one said the majority of weeks it was better.<BR><BR>Tips are not pooled. I find that the staff members that work exceptionally hard do get a bit extra from the passengers, as in the past, in an envelope or palmed. The dinner bar waiter does receive a tip the same way even though they are receiving 15% of your bar tab.<BR><BR>The cruise line takes none of this money. It is paid in cash to the staff with no taxes taken out since they are not employees of the U.S.<BR><BR>The incentive to work harder is reflected in the amount of a staff's tip. If a staff member receives a reduced amount he knows he is not doing a very good job. His boss also knows this. In the past, the supervisor never knew how his staff members were performing.<BR><BR>Originally the cruise line was reluctant to initiate the automatic tipping and did away with the alternative restaurant/buffet on the last night of the cruise (tip night). Passengers continued to stiff the staff. <BR><BR>So, if the staff likes the new automatic tipping policy, who is to argue?<BR><BR>Paul<BR>

I'm not sure you made your point, Paul. Just because the staff is happy doesn't mean they're giving you good service. They might be happy because now they can all do a mediocre job and still get good tips!!

Paul= IF a worker gets a REDUCED tip, WHO gets the remainder of the money we have had deducted and put on our bill---<BR><BR>If what you say is true, you are contradicting yourself and defintely making my point correct...IF I want to make sure my wait staff gets what I want to give, I will give it direct to him/her.<BR><BR>A tip is just that-- a person gets paid EXTRA for good service. If they KNOW they will get paid a set amount,WHY bother to work any harder??<BR>It's human nature--most people do NOT work any harder than they have to...

Paul, of course they are happier. They get paid wether they work for it or not. As all others have said, &quot;What incentive do they have to perform better?&quot; Are we supposed to tip them on top of automatic tipping? Then it really is not automatic tipping after all but another way to hide the true cost of the cruise. <BR><BR>Paul you are definitely on the losing side of this debate.<BR><BR>Automatic tipping is a non constructive way of motivating people. It is counter productive.

Lew, I am so impressed with your puff puff shareholder status. Makes you quite the expert.<BR>In fact it is extremely specious to base your comparAtive analysis on HAL/Seabourne vs mass market lines. You know the demographics are totally skewed.

Zach, I think you missed the point--demographics has nothing to do with it. <BR><BR>It is not the difference in demographics, but how the cruise lines pay their staff. HAL and Seabourn pay higher base salaries, and as a result have more candidates than they need. The other &quot;mass market&quot; cruise lines pay lower salaries, have some difficulty in recruiting, and depend on automatic tipping to retain staff. In short, they pass on a good chunk of their labor cost to the consumer by means of automatic tipping.<BR><BR>It should be noted that an advertised 7 night cruise for $399pp actually is $469pp when it includes automatic tipping. This is akin to bait and switch. If advertisements included a notation that there would be a $10 a day/pp surcharge [for that is actually what automatic tipping is] then actual prices would be known.<BR><BR>One woman's opinion: I am a little surprised at your &quot;puff puff&quot; comment. Why such cattiness? A little jealousy?

I don't really know whether I am losing this argument or not.<BR><BR>In the past, self-tipping was the way of rewarding the staff for doing a good job, or if they did an excellent job a common man would tip them more. I agree. There was the incentive to do a better job.<BR><BR>The problem was, the &quot;new&quot; cruiser was tipping very little or not at all. If their water glass was not filled or the ice bucket was not filled they &quot;punish&quot; the staff. You must admit that this discussion has been held in the past and one has to admit the &quot;new&quot; cruiser believes the staff should be treated like &quot;slaves.&quot; Hence the argument.<BR><BR>Now, if the staff prefers the new policy, who are we to disagree. They are making more than they did with the self-tipping policy and they still can excel and receive extra (by putting money in envelopes) for doing a bang-up job.<BR><BR>If a passenger reduces his tip for a staff member, that staff member knows he did not do a good job. His boss also know this. Either he straightens up or he will be gone at the end of his contract. Isn't this an incentive to do better?<BR><BR>I do not believe the cruise lines particularly care for the automatic tipping since it involves more work for their administration staff. Makes sense, right? And if you reduce your tip by going down to the purser's office they have more paperwork.<BR><BR>Remember the cruise lines attempted to please the wait staff by elimating the buffet and alternative restaurant on the last night of the cruise. This policy apparently did not work. <BR><BR>Bottom line: If the staff likes this way of tipping along with many passengers since they do not have to scrounge up money to fill envelopes,<BR>isn't this the better way?<BR><BR>Paul

I have always felt that tipping was a personal thing, and will not have any cruise line telling me what I have to tip. We have always been fair. Cruise lines that add it to your bill will not be the ones I will sail on.

Has no one noticed that the problem of no tipping is on the lines that attract the average &quot;price conscious&quot; (I'm being nice with that one) cruiser.<BR><BR>I also like the fact the when there is automtic tipping it comes out to 17.5% of your total cruise cost. Adding that much in the retail world would be considered &quot;Bait and Switch&quot;. And would result in punitive action (and rightly so) by our government. Ah but we can't do that and they know it flying under foreign flags.<BR><BR>All and all the whole thing is a well played out scam by the cruise lines to hide the value of their cruise.<BR><BR>Bottom line if it wasn't such a big deal they would mark it CLEARLY in their brochures.

Merriam,<BR><BR>Tipping IS a personal thing. The cruise lines give you guidelines to follow which are listed in the back of the brochure and in your final cruise documents. It is just that .... guidelines. You can tip 5 cents if you like. They aren't going to throw you off the ship.<BR><BR>Go to the purser's office and tell them you wish to tip the old way and ask for envelopes.<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR>

Paul, when you refer to the &quot;new cruiser&quot; aren't your really refering to the lowest common denominator? those folks don't tip anywhere much less on a cruise...I agree with the other posters, that this really is a way for the staff to make money without having to work for it. And yes, the aggravation and the verbal abuse is not worth it. My mother did this on a Carnival cruise and the staffmember very sarcastically told her &quot; that she was taking food out of this mans' childrens mouth&quot; her response &quot; he should have thought about it when he was my room steward&quot;. She refused to back down and did get the credit. The whole expereince and the unnecessary comments by staff have left a sour taste in her mouth about Carnival. I tried to tell her that this was not the line for her...but you know how mothers are!!! she did state that for what she paid, it wasn't a bad cruise but the staff attitude was an unexpected bonus. I personally follow Websters definition of a tip, above and beyond the call of duty.Have a nice day!!

Paul, after 14 cruises I know how the system works. We always tip the standard amount and sometimes give extra. We do not tip anyone but the cabin steward, waiter, and bus boy. To tip a dining room manager or some others that people are suggested to tip is not necessary. IMHO

Of course Merriem. The cruise line always stated that one should tip the maitre d' or the head waiter only if they help in some special way. <BR><BR>This is the only $5 that is added to the automatic tipping that I find questionable. The cruise line should spring for the $5 per person and let them earn their tips by doing extra.<BR><BR>Paul

Seems to me the cruise lines have bit theirselves in the rear with their greediness. <BR><BR>In an effort to generate more revenue they have dropped their pricing and standards on their 4 day and inner cabins.<BR><BR>As a result they are now getting the cheapskates of the world on their cruise lines. These are the non-tippers (as well as other colorful remarks) that have become a pre- occupation of conversation on this board.<BR><BR>In order to keep prices down (to attract more people(yeah just stuff them in) they have now instituted this automatic tipping. <BR><BR>They (and Paul) will try to justify it's existance by saying how the staff is happier. Well of course they are. They now don't have to fawn all over Billy bob and the boys and they still get their tips. And the cruise lines down't have to compensate them either.<BR><BR>It's a win win if you work for the cruise lines or own stock in them. It's a lose-lose if you are a cruiser. Since now you have lost the last bit of direct control you had over service.