To JR Pass or Not To JR Pass
May 6th, 2007, 07:01 AM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To JR Pass or Not To JR Pass
We are a family of four visiting Japan for the first time in November.
I've calculated the prices and paying for individual trips would be less expensive than the JR Pass, but having the pre - paid pass seems so much more convenient than paying for each trip. We have taken trains in England and Italy so we are somewhat familiar with trains...but we are also a family who will pay a premium for a good parking lot or valet.
Based on our trip info....what do you think?
Day 1 - arrive Narita Shinkansen to Osaka (Nozomi)
Day 2 - Based at Osaka Hilton - visit Kyoto and other areas
Day 3 - Based at Osaka Hilton - visit Kyoto and other areas
Day 4 - Based at Osaka Hilton - visit Kyoto and other areas
Day 5 - Leave Osaka for Tokyo
Day 6 - Tokyo
Day 7 - Tokyo
Day 8 - Depart Narita
Our trip is 8 days, we will activate our JR Pass on Day 2, since the pass does not cover the Nozomi.
I don't want to waste our $$$$ because I "think" the JR pass will be more convenient.
Thanks!
I've calculated the prices and paying for individual trips would be less expensive than the JR Pass, but having the pre - paid pass seems so much more convenient than paying for each trip. We have taken trains in England and Italy so we are somewhat familiar with trains...but we are also a family who will pay a premium for a good parking lot or valet.
Based on our trip info....what do you think?
Day 1 - arrive Narita Shinkansen to Osaka (Nozomi)
Day 2 - Based at Osaka Hilton - visit Kyoto and other areas
Day 3 - Based at Osaka Hilton - visit Kyoto and other areas
Day 4 - Based at Osaka Hilton - visit Kyoto and other areas
Day 5 - Leave Osaka for Tokyo
Day 6 - Tokyo
Day 7 - Tokyo
Day 8 - Depart Narita
Our trip is 8 days, we will activate our JR Pass on Day 2, since the pass does not cover the Nozomi.
I don't want to waste our $$$$ because I "think" the JR pass will be more convenient.
Thanks!
May 6th, 2007, 09:45 AM
#2
Probably not, but we can't tell for sure because we don't know what "other areas" means.
If you activate it on day 1 then you certainly would benefit by getting the 7-day pass. You break even with the pass by taking the Narita Express to Tokyo plus the shinkansen from Tokyo to Shin Osaka and back to Tokyo. That's just your days 1 and 5 travel. The remaining travel would all be "free".
The trip from Narita to Osaka covers over half of the cost of the pass. Here are the ball park costs:
3000 Narita-Tokyo
13500 Tokyo-Shinosaka-Osaka
3000 for three Osaka-Kyoto roundtrips
13500 for Osaka-Tokyo
1000 for days 6&7 on JR in Tokyo
----
That's 34000 and doesn't count going to Nara or Himeji or Okayama or wherever "other areas" means. The pass is 28,300
Take the limo bus from your Tokyo hotel to the airport for about 3000 yen.
A better itinerary would be:
1) arrive Osaka Kansai
stay in Kyoto
8) depart Osaka Kansai.
If you activate it on day 1 then you certainly would benefit by getting the 7-day pass. You break even with the pass by taking the Narita Express to Tokyo plus the shinkansen from Tokyo to Shin Osaka and back to Tokyo. That's just your days 1 and 5 travel. The remaining travel would all be "free".
The trip from Narita to Osaka covers over half of the cost of the pass. Here are the ball park costs:
3000 Narita-Tokyo
13500 Tokyo-Shinosaka-Osaka
3000 for three Osaka-Kyoto roundtrips
13500 for Osaka-Tokyo
1000 for days 6&7 on JR in Tokyo
----
That's 34000 and doesn't count going to Nara or Himeji or Okayama or wherever "other areas" means. The pass is 28,300
Take the limo bus from your Tokyo hotel to the airport for about 3000 yen.
A better itinerary would be:
1) arrive Osaka Kansai
stay in Kyoto
8) depart Osaka Kansai.
May 6th, 2007, 08:02 PM
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you so much for the info! We are flying on miles and staying at the Hilton on points. I wish we could fly into Osaka and stay in Kyoto...since this is where we would like to be...but business class and a nice hotel for free...we can't complain. As for other areas...we will probably stick closer to Kyoto and Osaka..unless you have some suggestions. The schedules I've checked for the train from Narita to Shinosaka...are all on the Nozomi..unless we want to make a lot of stops. We are considering a flight...but my kids would rather spend the time on the train. The limo bus is a good idea...if we do the JR pass on the first day.
Again, thank you for the info!
L.
Again, thank you for the info!
L.
May 6th, 2007, 10:05 PM
#4
If you are using miles from United or American Airlines or one of either of those airlines' partners then they would have connections to Osaka from NRT (on JAL or ANA). Several airlines fly into KIX. But ok, you are going to NRT.
The shinkansen does not go to Narita Airport. From Narita Airport you have to take a train into the city, to either Tokyo station or Shinagawa station. The best train to take is the Narita Express (the N'Ex) train operated by JR. It is a limited express train, not a shinkansen.
At Tokyo or Shinagawa station you would connect from the N'Ex to the shinkansen to Kyoto.
The Nozomi trains are the fastest and most frequent shinkansen trains. A fast Nozomi can get from Tokyo to Kyoto in 2 hours 20 minuest with three stops. In the morning there are Nozomi departures from Tokyo every 10 minutes or so.
A Hikari train can make the trip in 2 hours 37 minutes with four stops. A Hikari train departs Tokyo every 30 minutes.
You can take the Nozomi if you want, it will save you, potentially, 20 minutes of wait time and 17 minutes of travel time. But it is going to cost you about 40,000 yen or so more for the four of you than if you got the 7-day JR Pass activated on day 1.
The shinkansen does not go to Narita Airport. From Narita Airport you have to take a train into the city, to either Tokyo station or Shinagawa station. The best train to take is the Narita Express (the N'Ex) train operated by JR. It is a limited express train, not a shinkansen.
At Tokyo or Shinagawa station you would connect from the N'Ex to the shinkansen to Kyoto.
The Nozomi trains are the fastest and most frequent shinkansen trains. A fast Nozomi can get from Tokyo to Kyoto in 2 hours 20 minuest with three stops. In the morning there are Nozomi departures from Tokyo every 10 minutes or so.
A Hikari train can make the trip in 2 hours 37 minutes with four stops. A Hikari train departs Tokyo every 30 minutes.
You can take the Nozomi if you want, it will save you, potentially, 20 minutes of wait time and 17 minutes of travel time. But it is going to cost you about 40,000 yen or so more for the four of you than if you got the 7-day JR Pass activated on day 1.
May 6th, 2007, 11:14 PM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I understand that you are using points to stay at the Hilton but it seems to me that you are wasting valuable time if your intent is to visit other places other than Osaka. I would strongly consider paying for a hotel in Kyoto. It would not be that expensive for 3 nights. I also do not see the reason to pay more for the Nozomi as there are many Shinkansen trains running between Tokyo and Kyoto every day. I do not have a current timetable but there is usually about one every hour or so.
May 9th, 2007, 08:45 AM
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you so much for all of the suggestions. I am trying to fly into Osaka from the US. For some reason, when I started researching this trip 329 days in advance so I could grab the mileage seats on AA…..US to Osaka was not available. It is now…but there are no business class seats. I will continue to check the US to Osaka routes and when JAL accepts reservations for the NRT to KIX route, we may add that to our ticket. JAL says they will not release that flight for reservations till 2 mos previous to our departure date. Since I can not buy a JR pass till 2 mos before the activation date…I am going to back burner this for a few months and see what happens with the airline first…for that will change our train travel. As for staying in Kyoto, it seems like the right thing to do, but we appreciate the executive level enhancements at the Hilton and free is better than 2 rooms for 5 nights (made an error on my itinerary).
As for Tokyo, we will be there for ½ day and 1 full day. Should we LOVE Tokyo…we’ll come back.
Any suggestions of places to visit outside of the top 10’s.
Ps. We will somehow take the Nozomi…for it is the only request my kids have made.
Thank you again!
As for Tokyo, we will be there for ½ day and 1 full day. Should we LOVE Tokyo…we’ll come back.
Any suggestions of places to visit outside of the top 10’s.
Ps. We will somehow take the Nozomi…for it is the only request my kids have made.
Thank you again!
May 9th, 2007, 03:01 PM
#8
Yes, purchasing the <u>voucher</u> for the JR Pass can certainly wait. There is no benefit in getting it sooner versus later. The vouchers are <u>refundable</u>.
You should look into the JR Sanyo Area Pass. It can be purchased when you get to Japan (or before I think). It is good from Osaka to Hakata and out to KIX. You can use it on the Nozomi shinkansen. The Sanyo line is where the shinkansen travels the fastest. I believe that is between Hiroshima and Hakata.
There are tunnels that the train goes through that are near Hiroshima. IIRC they are on the Osaka side of Hiroshima, so I don't think you would have to go beyond Hiroshima to experience them. I thought it was really cool going through the tunnels on the shinkansen. You hear the quiet rumble of the train as it speeds thru the tunnel and then, whoosh, it is back into the sun and countryside. Inside the tunnel you don't get quite the experience of moving as fast as you are because there is no reference point, but on exiting the tunnel and seeing the countryside passing by again you get a better appreciation of the speed.
Between Hiroshima and Hakata the train goes under the strait between Honshu and Kyushu.
You should look into the JR Sanyo Area Pass. It can be purchased when you get to Japan (or before I think). It is good from Osaka to Hakata and out to KIX. You can use it on the Nozomi shinkansen. The Sanyo line is where the shinkansen travels the fastest. I believe that is between Hiroshima and Hakata.
There are tunnels that the train goes through that are near Hiroshima. IIRC they are on the Osaka side of Hiroshima, so I don't think you would have to go beyond Hiroshima to experience them. I thought it was really cool going through the tunnels on the shinkansen. You hear the quiet rumble of the train as it speeds thru the tunnel and then, whoosh, it is back into the sun and countryside. Inside the tunnel you don't get quite the experience of moving as fast as you are because there is no reference point, but on exiting the tunnel and seeing the countryside passing by again you get a better appreciation of the speed.
Between Hiroshima and Hakata the train goes under the strait between Honshu and Kyushu.
May 23rd, 2007, 01:53 PM
#10
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i really recommend u either find a hilton in kyoto or just spend the $s ... going back and forth to osaka will be an annoyance since kyoto is so lovely!
also, in tokyo, your kids would likely LOVE to see a sumo match, and i think novemeber might have matches! even if not, u might find a place to see asumo practive but it's tougher to find and very early in the morning!
also, in tokyo, your kids would likely LOVE to see a sumo match, and i think novemeber might have matches! even if not, u might find a place to see asumo practive but it's tougher to find and very early in the morning!
May 24th, 2007, 06:34 AM
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I managed to tack on a flight from Narita to Osaka arriving at ITM around 1945! I am very pleased with this. I suppose we will take the bus/shuttle to the hotel. I am now researching the Kansai rail passes. We will probably spend most of our time in Osaka, Kyoto and Nara. I can't quite imagine why we are wasting time staying in Osaka when the train ride seems quite short to Kyoto 15mins to 30mins
Unless there is something I am not understanding.
We will take the Nozomi from Kyoto to Tokyo.
Thank you !
L.
Unless there is something I am not understanding.
We will take the Nozomi from Kyoto to Tokyo.
Thank you !
L.
May 24th, 2007, 09:20 AM
#12
In November the sumo tournament is in Fukuoka, see sumo.or.jp
CADRMN here are two scenarios:
A) staying in Kyoto
- step outside your Kyoto hotel
- you are now in Kyoto
- walk five minutes or so and you are in Gion, Kyoto
B) staying in Osaka
- step outside your Osaka hotel
- walk, bus, or tax to Osaka station (5 min?)
- buy 540y ticket for Kyoto
- find platform for train and go to platform (5 min)
- wait 10 minutes for the train
- this JR local train will probably be packed with commuters so you will stand
- the trip is 28 minutes, not 15 minutes (you got 15 minutes for the travel time from Shinosaka to Kyoto which would cost about 2700y one-way).
- at Kyoto station find your way to the bus stop
- you are now in Kyoto
- wait 15 minutes for the bus
- ride the bus 15 minutes to Gion
- walk 2 minutes and you are in Kyoto, Gion
Now that you are in Gion, you find that you forgot your camera! Or maybe after four or five hours you'd like to take a short nap. Or you really should have brought your jacket. Under scenario A you go back to your hotel. Under scenario B you spend time and money to suffer.
CADRMN here are two scenarios:
A) staying in Kyoto
- step outside your Kyoto hotel
- you are now in Kyoto
- walk five minutes or so and you are in Gion, Kyoto
B) staying in Osaka
- step outside your Osaka hotel
- walk, bus, or tax to Osaka station (5 min?)
- buy 540y ticket for Kyoto
- find platform for train and go to platform (5 min)
- wait 10 minutes for the train
- this JR local train will probably be packed with commuters so you will stand
- the trip is 28 minutes, not 15 minutes (you got 15 minutes for the travel time from Shinosaka to Kyoto which would cost about 2700y one-way).
- at Kyoto station find your way to the bus stop
- you are now in Kyoto
- wait 15 minutes for the bus
- ride the bus 15 minutes to Gion
- walk 2 minutes and you are in Kyoto, Gion
Now that you are in Gion, you find that you forgot your camera! Or maybe after four or five hours you'd like to take a short nap. Or you really should have brought your jacket. Under scenario A you go back to your hotel. Under scenario B you spend time and money to suffer.
May 24th, 2007, 07:42 PM
#14
Ok, when I was writing about the added cost of the 540y train trip I was wondering if you were staying on points. That makes a big difference esp. since you will probably need two rooms.
KimJapan likes the Osaka Hilton and I believe her family takes the limo bus from Kansai Airport to the hotel. I would expect that a bus from ITM would go there too.
If you are REALLY interested in seeing the sumo tournament then you might like to know that Hakata station is 622.3km from Shinosaka. The Nozomi makes the trip, with four stops, in as short as two hours 28 minutes. That's an average of about 150 miles per hour, including the time for the stops.
The one-way fare is 14890 yen. JR West has a Sanyo Area Pass for 20,000 Adult and 10,000 for a child. It is good for 4 days.
http://www.westjr.co.jp/english/travel/jrp/index.html
This pass would not be good for Kyoto or Nara but would get you to Himeji or Hiroshima.
There is an inexpensive express bus from Hakata station to the sumo arena in Fukuoka (10 minute ride).
From Hakata station to Fukuoka airport there is a subway and it takes only 6 minutes. Japan Airlines has a special fare for visitors where you can get a one-way fare for around 10,000 yen (could be as much as 12,500 yen).
Osaka might have some points of interest for your family, like the Universal Studios. There might be some info here:
http://www.jnto.go.jp/eng/location/rtg/pdf/pg-505.pdf
KimJapan likes the Osaka Hilton and I believe her family takes the limo bus from Kansai Airport to the hotel. I would expect that a bus from ITM would go there too.
If you are REALLY interested in seeing the sumo tournament then you might like to know that Hakata station is 622.3km from Shinosaka. The Nozomi makes the trip, with four stops, in as short as two hours 28 minutes. That's an average of about 150 miles per hour, including the time for the stops.
The one-way fare is 14890 yen. JR West has a Sanyo Area Pass for 20,000 Adult and 10,000 for a child. It is good for 4 days.
http://www.westjr.co.jp/english/travel/jrp/index.html
This pass would not be good for Kyoto or Nara but would get you to Himeji or Hiroshima.
There is an inexpensive express bus from Hakata station to the sumo arena in Fukuoka (10 minute ride).
From Hakata station to Fukuoka airport there is a subway and it takes only 6 minutes. Japan Airlines has a special fare for visitors where you can get a one-way fare for around 10,000 yen (could be as much as 12,500 yen).
Osaka might have some points of interest for your family, like the Universal Studios. There might be some info here:
http://www.jnto.go.jp/eng/location/rtg/pdf/pg-505.pdf
May 24th, 2007, 07:53 PM
#15
Forgot to mention that I am 99% sure that the Sanyo Area Pass covers the Nozomi shinkansen on the Sanyo line - from Shin Osaka to Hakata (Fukuoka).
Going to Fukuoka for a day trip from Osaka would not be an outrageous idea. Several fodorites have done day trips from Kyoto to Hiroshima. That's 2 hours 10 minutes for only 380.6km (slower because a transfer is required when using a JR Pass and Hikari shinkansen).
Going to Fukuoka for a day trip from Osaka would not be an outrageous idea. Several fodorites have done day trips from Kyoto to Hiroshima. That's 2 hours 10 minutes for only 380.6km (slower because a transfer is required when using a JR Pass and Hikari shinkansen).
May 25th, 2007, 04:40 AM
#16
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are traveling with your children?
We stayed at a lovely guest house in the heart of Kyoto. The price is per person, but if you have 3 or more people, you can get the cottage out back.
We loved staying there (Hirota Guest House) and Hirota's English is excellent. We had our own little cottage. DH and I slept in a loft like room and DS slept downstairs. We had a tiny kitchen area under the stairs and our own bathroom (a must for me).
The ONLY downside was the 11PM curfew that most guest houses have.
We stayed at a lovely guest house in the heart of Kyoto. The price is per person, but if you have 3 or more people, you can get the cottage out back.
We loved staying there (Hirota Guest House) and Hirota's English is excellent. We had our own little cottage. DH and I slept in a loft like room and DS slept downstairs. We had a tiny kitchen area under the stairs and our own bathroom (a must for me).
The ONLY downside was the 11PM curfew that most guest houses have.
Thread
Original Poster
Forum
Replies
Last Post
orangeblossom_08
Asia
6
Oct 29th, 2009 05:28 AM
