Fine tuning our Japan itinerary
Sep 11th, 2013, 05:24 PM
#1
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Fine tuning our Japan itinerary
I'm fine tuning our 3 week Nov. itinerary and could use some help from our Japan experts concerning time allotted to certain places, and whether to prioritize scenic train travel or sightseeing in certain cities. I'm having a problem because the sun sets around 4:30, so there isn't much daylight in Nov.
1-How scenic is the train ride from Tokyo to Matsumoto? I'm thinking of taking a 5 PM train out of Tokyo which would get us to Matsumoto iat around 8pm.
2-I can't decide whether to spend about 5 extra hours in Matsumoto sightseeing, or spend those 5 hours on a daylight train from Matsumoto to Takayama. How much actual time is needed to see the castle, the castle museum and the interesting streets in Matsumoto?
3-Can I see the highlights of Takayama in 1 full day and 3 hours the next day.
4- Can I see the the highlights of Kanazawa in one full day and 6 hours the next day. Originally I was planning on spending another day in Kanazawa,and spending only about 2 hours on Myiajima. However, I am now thinking about taking that extra day and seeing Myajima for that day instead of just spending a few hours on Myajiima. Is there enough to keep us busy for a day there. We would do Myajima as a day trip from Hiroshima.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
1-How scenic is the train ride from Tokyo to Matsumoto? I'm thinking of taking a 5 PM train out of Tokyo which would get us to Matsumoto iat around 8pm.
2-I can't decide whether to spend about 5 extra hours in Matsumoto sightseeing, or spend those 5 hours on a daylight train from Matsumoto to Takayama. How much actual time is needed to see the castle, the castle museum and the interesting streets in Matsumoto?
3-Can I see the highlights of Takayama in 1 full day and 3 hours the next day.
4- Can I see the the highlights of Kanazawa in one full day and 6 hours the next day. Originally I was planning on spending another day in Kanazawa,and spending only about 2 hours on Myiajima. However, I am now thinking about taking that extra day and seeing Myajima for that day instead of just spending a few hours on Myajiima. Is there enough to keep us busy for a day there. We would do Myajima as a day trip from Hiroshima.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Sep 11th, 2013, 07:43 PM
#2
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I will also be in Japan for 17 days in November so am interested in reading the feedback you receive. I have two days budgeted for Matsumoto and a full day and overnight budgeted for Miyajima. While I haven't checked any meteorlogical records, I would bet the sun won't set QUITE as early as 4:30 though. Even here in Minneapolis at the winter solstice on Dec. 21, the sun sets around 4:20/4:30, so with it being a month earlier and Japan being south of the 45 degree latitude, I would bet we'll have until around 5:00 or 5:30 most days in Japan during November.
Sep 11th, 2013, 07:52 PM
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Of course everyone's idea of what is important is different so it is hard to say and I can obviously only tell you what I did.
1. I just looked at my photos from the train - I went from Matsumoto to Tokyo - there were some nice mountains in the distance in my photos and a cute castle at Kofu station - and I think I saw Fujisan in the distance but not really anything outstanding if going later works better.
2. I was in Matsumoto only one night - that was my crazy trip - 8 different stops in 12 nights...lol....got to Matsumoto from the Tateyama Kurobe Alpine Route. I walked around the old section when I arrived and the next morning I had a tour of the Castle with a good will guide or whatever they are called there which was great. I went to Tokyo that afternoon. I really would have loved to go to the Ukiyoe Museum but it was closed that day. So a few hours in Matsumoto is okay.
3. Takayama is small and compact - I walked all over - I think a day and a half is fine. I was there two nights and went to Hida Furukawa the first afternoon as there is a famous candle shop there from an NHK drama I had seen so that was important to me. I really liked the Jinja - great history and quite a bit of English info. I didn't go to the museum with the festival floats.
4. I was in Kanazawa three nights - there is quite a bit to see there imo. The castle, garden, many museums and the temple areas to walk through....I was there in the spring so the garden was really nice, not sure if it's such a big deal in the fall. I stayed over in Miyajima on a previous trip so I recommend that but it sounds like you are just doing a day trip....I might try to stay over if possible.
Hope that helps a bit....
1. I just looked at my photos from the train - I went from Matsumoto to Tokyo - there were some nice mountains in the distance in my photos and a cute castle at Kofu station - and I think I saw Fujisan in the distance but not really anything outstanding if going later works better.
2. I was in Matsumoto only one night - that was my crazy trip - 8 different stops in 12 nights...lol....got to Matsumoto from the Tateyama Kurobe Alpine Route. I walked around the old section when I arrived and the next morning I had a tour of the Castle with a good will guide or whatever they are called there which was great. I went to Tokyo that afternoon. I really would have loved to go to the Ukiyoe Museum but it was closed that day. So a few hours in Matsumoto is okay.
3. Takayama is small and compact - I walked all over - I think a day and a half is fine. I was there two nights and went to Hida Furukawa the first afternoon as there is a famous candle shop there from an NHK drama I had seen so that was important to me. I really liked the Jinja - great history and quite a bit of English info. I didn't go to the museum with the festival floats.
4. I was in Kanazawa three nights - there is quite a bit to see there imo. The castle, garden, many museums and the temple areas to walk through....I was there in the spring so the garden was really nice, not sure if it's such a big deal in the fall. I stayed over in Miyajima on a previous trip so I recommend that but it sounds like you are just doing a day trip....I might try to stay over if possible.
Hope that helps a bit....
Sep 11th, 2013, 07:57 PM
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We took the bus from Takayama to Matsumoto. Excellent scenery and got off at mountain resort for thermal baths and mountain walk. Then back on another bus for the rest of the trip. Really liked Matsumoto market area and castle.
Sep 11th, 2013, 08:34 PM
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I didn't do any of the temple walks in Takayama, but saw the things that I wanted to see in about one full day. (As I recall, I got there midday and left the next midday.) If you have any interest in artworks made of glass or either Art Deco or Art Nouveau decor, make sure you leave time to visit the Hida Takayama Museum of Art. I also enjoyed the Hida no Sato, Jinya, morning markets, and various restored/preserved houses in the old town. I'm sure I would have liked more time in Takayama; having left, I can't speak to what I missed.
I spent about a day and a half in Kanazawa and wished I had given more time to it.
I reached Miyajima in time to check into my ryokan (so by about 4 p.m.), got up very early the next a.m. (about 5 a.m., as I recall -- I was still on EDT), and didn't leave Miyajima until mid-day or perhaps even early afternoon. During that time, I explored the town and Mt. Misan. (And had another delicious meal at my ryokan.)
Personally, I would not recommend Miyajima as a day trip from Hiroshima. One of the joys of visiting Miyajima is, IMO, to see the Itsukushima Shrine at both low and high tide. I was very pleased with my decision to visit Hiroshima (A-Bomb Dome, Peace Park, and Peace Museum) during the day, then spend a night at a ryokan on Miyajima, and then explore Miyajima for the morning and mid-day before heading on.
I spent about a day and a half in Kanazawa and wished I had given more time to it.
I reached Miyajima in time to check into my ryokan (so by about 4 p.m.), got up very early the next a.m. (about 5 a.m., as I recall -- I was still on EDT), and didn't leave Miyajima until mid-day or perhaps even early afternoon. During that time, I explored the town and Mt. Misan. (And had another delicious meal at my ryokan.)
Personally, I would not recommend Miyajima as a day trip from Hiroshima. One of the joys of visiting Miyajima is, IMO, to see the Itsukushima Shrine at both low and high tide. I was very pleased with my decision to visit Hiroshima (A-Bomb Dome, Peace Park, and Peace Museum) during the day, then spend a night at a ryokan on Miyajima, and then explore Miyajima for the morning and mid-day before heading on.
Sep 11th, 2013, 08:57 PM
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Although I personally wouldn't travel that fast, I think what you are proposing is feasible. However, there is no direct train from Matsumoto to Takayama (you basically have to go down the Kiso valley almost to Nagoya, than back to Takayama) so it takes many hours. Bus is a better option (faster and better scenery): http://www.alpico.co.jp/access/route_k/index_e.html
I've not taken the train from Tokyo to Matsumoto so have no opinion on the scenery.
There's quite a bit to see in Miyajima: as well as the shrine and temple, there'll be spectacular koyo (autumn leaves) around mid-late November in the park below Mount Misen and you can also go up to the summit (hike or take the ropeway) and get excellent views of the Inland Sea (and feed the deer).
Minbeef: the sun does indeed set at 4:30 in the latter half of November, and rises at 6:20:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldcloc...&afl=-11&day=1
I've not taken the train from Tokyo to Matsumoto so have no opinion on the scenery.
There's quite a bit to see in Miyajima: as well as the shrine and temple, there'll be spectacular koyo (autumn leaves) around mid-late November in the park below Mount Misen and you can also go up to the summit (hike or take the ropeway) and get excellent views of the Inland Sea (and feed the deer).
Minbeef: the sun does indeed set at 4:30 in the latter half of November, and rises at 6:20:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldcloc...&afl=-11&day=1
Sep 12th, 2013, 04:45 AM
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Thanks for your replies.
someotherguy-The train ride down the Kiso Valley does in fact take 5 hours as opposed to 2.5 hours by bus, but I was wondering if the extra time in the train was worth it for the scenery. I will have a JR pass, so the trip would be "free", but the bus ride is very inexpensive, so I don't mind paying for it if I would not be missing anything by doing that. The bus would give me a 2 more hours of daylight in Takayama the day I arrive.
mara and kja-If we add the full day for Myajima we will be doing it from the Hotel Granvia in H where we would not be arriving until 8:30 PM on our first night. (We leave Kanazawa at 4PM and arrive H at 8:30) I did not not want to make a switch for the second night. Hence, we will stay there and day trip. I thought that since sunset is at 4:30, the shrine would be lit up by 5:30 so we could see that before we left the island. High tide is at around 7 PM so I thought we could see the tori in the mud as well as covered by some water. We would then take a boat back to Hiroshima. Although I can't figure out the boat schedule, it seems to me I should be able to get a boat back to H at about 6:30 so we could eat dinner in H.
someotherguy-The train ride down the Kiso Valley does in fact take 5 hours as opposed to 2.5 hours by bus, but I was wondering if the extra time in the train was worth it for the scenery. I will have a JR pass, so the trip would be "free", but the bus ride is very inexpensive, so I don't mind paying for it if I would not be missing anything by doing that. The bus would give me a 2 more hours of daylight in Takayama the day I arrive.
mara and kja-If we add the full day for Myajima we will be doing it from the Hotel Granvia in H where we would not be arriving until 8:30 PM on our first night. (We leave Kanazawa at 4PM and arrive H at 8:30) I did not not want to make a switch for the second night. Hence, we will stay there and day trip. I thought that since sunset is at 4:30, the shrine would be lit up by 5:30 so we could see that before we left the island. High tide is at around 7 PM so I thought we could see the tori in the mud as well as covered by some water. We would then take a boat back to Hiroshima. Although I can't figure out the boat schedule, it seems to me I should be able to get a boat back to H at about 6:30 so we could eat dinner in H.
Sep 12th, 2013, 05:28 AM
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mara and kja-Forgot to ask- Since you've been to both, would you spend:
2 days plus 6 hours in Kanazawa and just a few hours to see only the shrine on Myajima, or
1 day plus 6 hours in Kanazawa, and go to M for the whole day?
We like walking, museums and good scenery equally. I know we'd have a good time whatever we choose. I just wonder what you would choose knowing what you know about both places.
2 days plus 6 hours in Kanazawa and just a few hours to see only the shrine on Myajima, or
1 day plus 6 hours in Kanazawa, and go to M for the whole day?
We like walking, museums and good scenery equally. I know we'd have a good time whatever we choose. I just wonder what you would choose knowing what you know about both places.
Sep 12th, 2013, 08:27 AM
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The train ride down the Kiso Valley is not particularly scenic; the section into Takayama is good, but I assume you will be leaving by that route anyway. The bus journey is really good. I was on the route via Kamikochi/Hirayu Onsen and, looking at the map on page 3 of the JNTO guide http://www.jnto.go.jp/eng/location/rtg/pdf/pg-409.pdf, it may be that you only get the really spectacular part if you do that (i.e., not the route via Norikura). There are other useful JNTO guides (e.g., Miyajima, Kanazawa) here: http://www.jnto.go.jp/eng/location/rtg/index.html
Of your two options, I'd recommend the one that balances the time between Kanazawa and Miyajima.
Of your two options, I'd recommend the one that balances the time between Kanazawa and Miyajima.
Sep 12th, 2013, 10:36 AM
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Oh boy, tough decision.....if you will be there for the fall foliage I am thinking that Miyajima for the whole day might be the better choice (I was there in the spring so only an assumption).....a whole day plus six hours should work for Kanazawa - most of the main tourist sights are pretty much in the same area....
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e4208.html
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e4208.html
Sep 12th, 2013, 11:16 AM
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1. Your train ride will be mostly in the dark.
2. You need at least a couple of hours to tour the keep and the grounds. Take the day train to Takayama after.
3. Haven't been to Takayama but would allow one day to sight see.
4. Skip Kanazawa as it is worth at least 4 nights. Miyajima would be a nice day trip from Hiroshima.
Aloha!
2. You need at least a couple of hours to tour the keep and the grounds. Take the day train to Takayama after.
3. Haven't been to Takayama but would allow one day to sight see.
4. Skip Kanazawa as it is worth at least 4 nights. Miyajima would be a nice day trip from Hiroshima.
Aloha!
Sep 12th, 2013, 04:54 PM
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I'm glad that isn't a choice I had to make! Although I really enjoyed both Kanazawa and Miyajima, I think I'd give the nod to Miyajima. In addition to Itsukashima Shrine, it has some lovely wooded trails and the views from the top of Mt. Misen are stunning. Just be sure to give some thought to your priorities in Kanazawa before you get there so you can maximize your time there. As you say, you should have a good time whichever you choose.
Sep 12th, 2013, 06:00 PM
#13
1. I think that timing fits in with the rest of your itinerary (Tokyo, Nikko, I think) and just chalk it up as a positioning ride, not a scenic one. I got to Matsumoto from Takayama via Kamikochi and then went to Nagano the next day. My memory of the scene about Matsumoto is one of a city in front of a wall of mountain which did make an impression but was more scenic getting towards Nagano. I only spent a couple of hours in Matsumoto to see the castle before going on to Nagano.
2. I don't know. What is your plan for getting to Takayama then, if you spend the time in Matsumoto? You were planning to avoid the bus because your DH might not like the ride. You or someone else mentioned walking some streets in Matsumoto and I am wondering if that is like what you would be seeing in Takayama.
3. Yes. In fact, 1 day + 2.5 hours would be sufficient.
4. Planning a trip to have 2 hours on Miyajima is scaring me.
2. I don't know. What is your plan for getting to Takayama then, if you spend the time in Matsumoto? You were planning to avoid the bus because your DH might not like the ride. You or someone else mentioned walking some streets in Matsumoto and I am wondering if that is like what you would be seeing in Takayama.
3. Yes. In fact, 1 day + 2.5 hours would be sufficient.
4. Planning a trip to have 2 hours on Miyajima is scaring me.
Sep 13th, 2013, 05:40 AM
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Thanks everyone for your replies. With your input I have decided to:
1-take the 5PM train from Shinjuku to Matsumoto
2-spend the full day on Myajima.
I'm keeping both Takayama and Kanazawa in the itinerary and will try to squeeze out as much time as I can in each. Whatever i see is better than not going IMO.
I still have not decided on transport from Matsumoto to Takayama, but I am leaning toward taking an 8:30am train which would get us into Takayama at 1:30.
Thanks again for your help.
1-take the 5PM train from Shinjuku to Matsumoto
2-spend the full day on Myajima.
I'm keeping both Takayama and Kanazawa in the itinerary and will try to squeeze out as much time as I can in each. Whatever i see is better than not going IMO.
I still have not decided on transport from Matsumoto to Takayama, but I am leaning toward taking an 8:30am train which would get us into Takayama at 1:30.
Thanks again for your help.
Sep 13th, 2013, 06:20 PM
#15
You arrive Matsumoto at 8PM and leave the next morning at 8:30 AM? You could leave Shinjuku at 8:12 AM and arrive in Takayama at 13:09.
You must mean you are spending two nights in Matsumoto. If not then I don't think it is worth it going that way. I'll take someotherguy's advice about the Kiso Valley ride not being particularly scenic.
Leave Shinjuku at 5:05PM arrive Nagoya at 19:19 and spend the night there. Or just connect in Nagoya and arrive Takayama at 22:07.
You must mean you are spending two nights in Matsumoto. If not then I don't think it is worth it going that way. I'll take someotherguy's advice about the Kiso Valley ride not being particularly scenic.
Leave Shinjuku at 5:05PM arrive Nagoya at 19:19 and spend the night there. Or just connect in Nagoya and arrive Takayama at 22:07.
Sep 15th, 2013, 04:05 AM
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We are going to spend 2 nights and one day In Matsumoto.
Our itinerary at this point is:
Days 1-6- Tokyo and Hakone
Day 7- Take 5PM train from Shinjuku. Arrive Matsumoto at 8PM
Day 8-Matsumoto
Day 9- Take 8:30am train to Takayama. Arive at 1:30
Day 10-Takayama
Day 11- Take 11am train to Kanazawa. Arrive at 1:30
Day 12-Kanazawa
Day 13- Take 4 PM train to Hiroshima. Arrive at 8:30
Day 14- Myajima.
Day 15- Hiroshima. Take 5 PM train to Kyoto.
Days 16-21- Kyoto with side trip to Nara
Day 22- Take MK taxi to ITM for 8:15AM flight home.
Our itinerary at this point is:
Days 1-6- Tokyo and Hakone
Day 7- Take 5PM train from Shinjuku. Arrive Matsumoto at 8PM
Day 8-Matsumoto
Day 9- Take 8:30am train to Takayama. Arive at 1:30
Day 10-Takayama
Day 11- Take 11am train to Kanazawa. Arrive at 1:30
Day 12-Kanazawa
Day 13- Take 4 PM train to Hiroshima. Arrive at 8:30
Day 14- Myajima.
Day 15- Hiroshima. Take 5 PM train to Kyoto.
Days 16-21- Kyoto with side trip to Nara
Day 22- Take MK taxi to ITM for 8:15AM flight home.
Sep 15th, 2013, 05:37 AM
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We're in Japan longer than you, so we can see/do more than you. We're in hotels at least 2 nights. I don't like a lot of down time or shopping, so I think we'll be ok. with the time allotted if we don't get too lost finding trains and places. I wish we had a guide as you do. lol
Sep 15th, 2013, 09:44 AM
#20
That looks good to me. A 7-day pass activated in Shinuku to start on Day 9 in Matsumoto. Pay for the Azusa L'Ex on Day 7. Good choice of trains.
On Day 9 I would be very tempted to take the JR Taita Line to connect the two limited express trains instead of just connecting in Nagoya. Just to spend some time on a local train in the country to see what the locals are up to. Spend time at Tajimi (9 min) and Minoota (15 min) stations instead of on the Nagoya trains. And it is 13 minutes shorter trip time. These are going to be small stations so, at worst, I would expect that the connections would require going up and over a bridge to the platform on the other side. Or the trains might use the same platform.
The connection at Nagoya (3 min) means crossing to the other side of the platform. No track 9 http://english.jr-central.co.jp/info/station/ so it would be very little effort.
Day 13 is the not so much fun part, but ok. Not so much fun = over 4 hours + mostly at night. Depart Kanazawa at 13:56 and you get more daylight and views of Biwako. Arrive Shin-Osaka before sunset. But that 16:01 departure is good timing.
On Day 9 I would be very tempted to take the JR Taita Line to connect the two limited express trains instead of just connecting in Nagoya. Just to spend some time on a local train in the country to see what the locals are up to. Spend time at Tajimi (9 min) and Minoota (15 min) stations instead of on the Nagoya trains. And it is 13 minutes shorter trip time. These are going to be small stations so, at worst, I would expect that the connections would require going up and over a bridge to the platform on the other side. Or the trains might use the same platform.
The connection at Nagoya (3 min) means crossing to the other side of the platform. No track 9 http://english.jr-central.co.jp/info/station/ so it would be very little effort.
Day 13 is the not so much fun part, but ok. Not so much fun = over 4 hours + mostly at night. Depart Kanazawa at 13:56 and you get more daylight and views of Biwako. Arrive Shin-Osaka before sunset. But that 16:01 departure is good timing.
