I'm just back from four days at the lovely Maya Ubud. The hotel was completely delightful and we hated to leave.

However, I can't say I hated to leave Bali. It has been 22 years since I've been there and I felt like we were in Fisherman's Wharf -- so overtouristed. So many tee shirts, so many bad paintings, so much 'batik', so much traffic, so many people.

We spent a beautiful morning visiting some of the temples outside of Ubud (they were not crowded) and we found some beautiful shops in Ubud, notably Threads of Life. We had a truly amazing, once in a life time meal at Mozaic. At a friend's recommendation, we made the schlep down to Jimbaran and, although we enjoyed our drinks, the view and the cool vibe of the Rock Bar at Ayana, once was enough

But I felt as though we had to fight hard to unearth the treasures of Bali. So, where can you go in Bali to find Bali? Is Lombok a better option?

I'm interested to know people's thoughts. I loved our stay, but am not sure I would go back.

With all due respect as to your opinions, since you are asking for other feedback, here goes....I love the Maya as well, it's locally owned and they do a great job. However, the two other places you mention that you loved are foreign-owned and are specifically targeted towards tourists...and yet you think Bali is too touristy? It's hard to say from your description of where you went, but perhaps in your four days you didn't really have the time to enjoy places outside of town centers? I realize there is a fine line between fine tourist facilities with international standard service, and local traditional villages....and in the 22 years since you have been gone Bali has experienced a large rise in the standard of living of local residents and part of that is unfortunately due to the government's emphasis on development without proper supervision. Bali Discovery has a weekly newsletter which updates many of these issues you are bringing up..and it's very complicated...how to balance economic development with keeping Bali "tourist friendly." I have lived here for many years and have seen lots of changes, and I hate the traffic and busses...but if you do take the time, Bali and it's people are still the same underneath it all...however, I do understand that casual visitors may not have that luxury. I recently visited Luang Prabang, which is very beautiful, and tourist friendly. However, a long-time resident tells me that LP is NOT Laos and is an illusion...whereas to me, Bali is the opposite; the real deal, with a thin outer coating of First World development...

I'm sure many will vehemently disagree with me, but that's my opinion....

Oh, and by the way, Lombok is not Bali. Only a small percentage of the population on the west coast is Balinese Hindu...the vast majority are Muslim Sasak. And there is a large multi-million dollar tourist resort development being built in Lombok by Saudi Arabian investors.

Thanks, kuluk -- just the kind of feedback I am interested in hearing. We were somewhat hampered on this visit by being with my 80 year old mother in law. She herself is a delight, but what she could do set fairly tight parameters for us. I honestly did love Mozaic, and I thought Threads of Life was very special -- I enjoyed finally learning how ikat is created and I found the stories of the women who had woven the pieces altogether fascinating.

What I could glimpse is that, as you say, "Bali and its people are still the same underneath it all." I was simply unprepared for the congestion.

Are there other corners of Bali that you recommend exploring? I would love to hear. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

I also justreturned from Bali, Lombok and Java and feel the same about the wretched situation in Bali today. In Ubud, I stayed at the greatest hotel - Puri Saraswati which is part of the Lotus Cafe and such a great hotel. But I also had been in Bali several times over the past two decades and today the crazy overbuilding in the rice paddies, the chopping down of vast numbers of trees - esp. all Banyan trees, the loss of the birds due to chemicals used on rice & loss of habitat, the noise and pollution of the huge number of motor vehicles all make Bali a has-been destination. There is a theory that 'progress is a trap' which states that the greater the progress of a society, the nearer it is to collapse due to things like building on your most productive land for food - Bali is a prime example of every aspect of the theory. I doubt that in the entire world there are two more ugly and dreadful towns than Kuta and Legian and I fear all of Bali will be like that mess in a decade.

p.s. to the above - due to the insane and obsessive "shopping" addictions of so many foreign women, many places in Bali are nothing more than outdoor malls some with walls along the streets of t-shirts. Actually in Lombok, I watched two women over a period of about five hours, do nothing but shop from vendors of rings, watches, earrings, fabric and anything else they could carry in front of these women. Sometimes they had a line of 8 vendors waiting to show them their goods. The poor vendors need the revenue, but this shopping insanity destroys any trace of indigenous life.

I was first in Bali 25 years ago, and there is no question that Bali has changed in that time. Do you know any place in the world that hasn't changed in 25 years?

And yet I find that you can still find Bali, in spite of the over development in some areas. But you don't find it in downtown Ubud nor in Kuta, the party beach (which has not been reflective of Bali in much more than 25 years!) nor in Nusa Dua, the tourist enclave. You find it in small villages, in temples all over the island.

I enjoy Lombok, though it is culturally very different. Lombok is slated for more development. When I first visited Lombok some dozen years ago, they told me a new international airport was being built at Mataram and would be done in a year. I visited again about 5 years ago and it hadn't been started yet. I expect it will eventually be built.

The whole world is changing. In most places you have to get off the tourist track to see glimpses of traditional life. Bali is no different.

Twenty years from now someone will be posting here how lovely and delightful Bali was 20 years ago, but how it has now been ruined.

i agree with kathie.... everything changes... look at your hometown??

i have visited bali 3 times over 10 or less years... i see huge changes each time.... for instance during my visit to ubud last spring i was surprised at how the downtown had changed in just 2 years---quality of shops deteriorated and it seemed much more "organized"... less offerings on the sidewalks for instance...

BUT, it is easy to get away from all of this and get out into the villages, and i don't mean the villages like celuk and others around ubud... hiring a driver to take you along back roads and into the back country will yield wonderful experiences and the "real bali"... you can do it yourself as well but that is slightly more difficult...

we found the north shore of bali to be very different as well...

lombok--- i think the airport may be off the ground now... we felt that lombok was more like bali might have been 30 years ago, albeit with a different religious background.
we also had the idea that maybe they are pushing forward to be more touristic centrik with little or no oversight...

i think luang prabang is a perfect example of a lovely town that has been consumed by greed and "modernization" all in the name of tourism and "progress"... has this ruined it, certainly not, but is it different, of course... same holds for bali which is a magnificent place to visit and enjoy.

visit kuta and legian and you have modernization at its worst, but that is not to say it still is not very enjoyable.

i would return to bali in a heartbeat and the same for LP and lombok...

I was in Lombok two weeks ago and there was a tourist publication with an article complaining that the new airport which was to have been completed mid-2010 still does not have funding nor even a schedule. Fine with me.
I disagree with Kathie and RHKMK - of course things change over time, but I guess you are happy with the homogenization of GAP, CC, Calvin Klein etc etc over-running indigeous businesses. I guess it doesn't matter to you that the banyan trees are all cut down except for a few protected (religious) sites and the birds are disappearing. Obviously for those who go to spas and high end resorts it does not matter as they have merely shifted their Western style of life to a resort and see little of actual local life anyway.

I guess, merckxxx that you missed my comments about needing to get the tourist track to see traditional life (anywhere). I don't advocate the homogenization of multi-national corps over-running local businesses, and I don't shop at those multi-nationals (even in my own country), I make choices to support local businesses. I don't get to decide whether GAP has a store in Lombok or Kathmandu, but I can decide where I spend my money.

Development is a mixed bag for the locals as well. Many appreciate that they now have electricity, even if they dislike the new expensive stores. When I was last on Lombok, there were many villages in the interior that still had no electricity.

In reply, I wrote a treatise on the positive and negative impact of tourism in developing countries, but had to scrap it as too preachy. I've been to Bali dozens of times since my first visit in 1988 and never fail to find it charming and beguiling.

In Bali development comes in waves and right now it's high tide, but if you look at a map of Bali you will see that the southern beaches and the Ubud area only comprise about 20% of the island.

We all hate traffic, polution, tour buses, shlock merchandise, over building. Having lived in San Francisco I think Fisherman’s wharf is a good comparison. The net result of sanitizing and commercializing a venue that was once culturally dynamic is that those sophisticated travelers will be disappointed by what they find. Look at Bugis Street in Singapore or a lot of what's happening at Angkor Wat.

[I'm a little leary of the they're-cutting-down-all-the-banyan-trees claim; however. I haven't seen any indication that this is happening.]

If you're looking for a Robinson Crusoe deserted beach or an anthropogical museum you're not going to find it in Bali, but if you're selective and focused you will find what you seek, including the "real Bali."

In this morning's Jakarta Post an article by a theater professor at Wesleyan University titled, "Mystic Protection for Toursits in Sanur." The article is about the resortation of a sacred Rangda mask (that's the dread widow witch) that keeps watch over the Grand Bali Beach Hotel. The ceremony involved elaborate religious rites, a community procession and ritual trance dances.

To me this is the real Bali. Wherever you are, just wait, it will come to you.

PS, In answer to the question Is Bali the new Lombok? is no, Lombok is the new Lombok. Lombok is a nice destination that’s attracted a lot of attention lately, due to a good deal of foreign investment. It is not Bali in any way – culture, religion, nature. Bali is unique in Indonesia and the world.

in 3 trips to bali i do not remember seeing calvin klein or gap stores, but they might be there in the malls....so what...

there are plenty of nice local stores you can scout out and local craftsmen of all types...

i dislike applying a PC mentality to any travel destination and that is what seems to be happening here...

Big Bali exhibit coming up at the San Francisco Asian Art Museum. For anyone who doubt that the art and spiritualism are alive and well in Bali.

http://www.asianart.org/

I first went to Bali at 20, 34 years ago. Kuta corner was the end of existence! No Tuban, and Jalan Legion a long peaceful road to cycle along. Yes, I think modern day Legion sucks I can't understand shopping mania - it's no cheaper than an Australian sale day! Bur you all miss what hasn't changed and there is one signifiers of the Bali people. Outside ever shop, every morning tiny woven baskets, with a frangipani flower, a stick of incense. And most of the tourist making an effort to show respect by not crushing it underfoot. We're all just people!

umm, rhkkmk - could you please explain "...applying a PC mentality..." a most bizarre comment. I must be one of the top anti-PC people on earth and cannot imagine what you mean by that.
As to Banyan trees not being cut down, it is a fact. The locals showed me many places where there had been big trees and said it is a trend. Many places where they remain, their are close to Hindu sites that protect them.
What remains of Bali as a specific culture is thin at best and soon will just be four letters on a map. It is somewhat tragic though that the satisfaction of being there somehow blinds many visitors to the massive loss - nay, termination - of species, habitat and culture,

Trying to get back to the original question... I was in Bali on business 2 or 3 times a year for the last five years. Business meant I had to stay in the Kuta - Legian area, which for me is one of the worst tourist areas I've ever visited. However, when I could, I tried to make time to visit other parts of Bali. Ubud is not so bad, compared to the south, but it can still be trying. On my last visit, I stayed in Candidasa for several days, and loved it. No touts, fantastic restaurants, local fishing boats. For me, it was near perfect.

merck... i have said my piece and i do not wish to bore everyone with an explanation of my pc comment...

just go to any local bali celebration and you will see that the culture is strong and not close to extinction... it thrives infact...

I also could write a book with my opinions of Bali...but am afraid I would be too preachy on my soapbox as well. I agree with rhkkmk, the "real" Bali is still there, and the little canang offerings are still put out...but it could really depend on what time in the Balinese calendar you are there....certain times of year demand different offerings and ceremonies.

So, JGMC, to answer your question about what I would suggest, is to not go with an itinerary to "do" certain villages or temples or whatever. One of the great things about Bali is waking up each day to something new and unknown...maybe an interesting ceremony will be happening, like a fiery cremation or a Calonarang (the Rangda one) ceremony, or you will see colorful processions with gigantic offerings on top of womens' heads, with the gamelan orchestra followg, and a few young boys and girls sitting on golden thrones going to the temple ceremony, bringing their Gods to visit other Gods in a neighboring village. These are real events happening, and not put on for tourists, although I have overheard tourists watching a cremation in "my" village cynically say that very thing...and that cremation was just ten minutes out of Ubud downtown, there were about 20 tourists there at the start, and 5 hours later when the bulls were lit all the tourists were gone...

One more thing to add..a lot of the problem with traffic is that the roads are just too winding and narrow...not that there are SO many people and tourists. Ubud has a very strange road and traffic pattern where ALL traffic in downtown has to filter through that one road, much of it one way, and it literally curls around town, so even if you only want to go a few yards to the east by car, for example, you have to make a roundabout of a kilometer to get there! Again, very short sighted planning by the local government, but some of these roads are tied into the local village history, religion and supervision...

Well, I see I have gotten preachy anyway, so just one more thing...Bali holds a special magic not just for foreign tourists, but for Indonesian people as well...and the island's population has grown from about 3 million to over 4 million people...and the government is struggling to handle the development. One local controversy is that the Governor has ordered all buildings (including 5-star hotels) within 5 kilometers of Uluwatu temple to be destroyed, and the local governments are fighting that...

Sorry to be so dogmatic!

I'm originally from Sacramento, and I remember when it was the only thing between SF and Lake Tahoe...things change, usually for better and for worse at the same time. I still can find the California I remember, and I'm heartened to hear that the Bali I recall still exists. I did catch glimpses of it on this last trip but, as I said, our time was short and there were constraints of visiting with my mother in law. Since I live in Indonesia now, I should have many more opportunities to visit.

HI,
I will be spending a week in Bali next month with a friend and a car. I definitely want to be OFF the tourist track!
Are there any particular villages that people would recommend visiting that you have enjoyed recently?
Thanks