faridabobat

Hi all. I have many questions.
To see Acrobatic show in Shanghai,which would be best theatre, and the best seats near stage, since I 'm shortsighted and need to be really close to the performers.There is a VIP cabin, but i'm not sure if this gives you the best view nearest to stage. I'm staying at Charms hotel.

Also in Beijing, to see Kung Fu show and Tang Dynasty Show in Xian.

After reading reports I understand that to get cheapest rates for flights and trains is to book 3-4 days in advance. I'm arrivin in Shanghai on 17 July, and WANT TO fly to HONG KONG on 01 AUG . Should I book this in advance through a tour agent or book it myself whilst in China. I have a planned itenarary, which I planned to book through a chinese tour agent, but i'm not sure now. My trip is-

Shanghai from 17 July to 20JULY.Alone here.

21 JULY go to Suzhou by train ,spend day, in evening take train to Hanghou.

(On 20 July- my two friends arrive in Hangzhou.)

22 July - go to Haining to view solar eclipse and Quiangtang river tidal bore. Then visit tea plantations. In late evening leave by train to go to Shanghai. Three of us now for rest of trip.

23 Ju;y-take flight to Yichang and visit THREE GORGES dam.

24 JULY-In afternoon take train to Zhangjiajie.

25 JULY -Visit Zhangjiajie National Park, take BAILONG elevator.At night take flight to Beijing.

26, 27 28 29 July-in beijing. On 29 July take overnight train to Xian.

30 July -in Xian, visit Terracot army and Kung fu show.

31 July- take flight to Guilin, visit caves.

01 Aug- take Li river cruise , go to Yangshou, then later take flight to Hong kong .

Any suggestions will be appreciated about bookings.

Is it worth takinj[g a day coach tour in Shanghai?

Marija

Unless you're really into engineering, I would pass on the visit to the three gorges dam. We saw it because we were in Yichang at the end of a Yangtze cruise. I would have been very unhappy to have flown there especially to see it. Our entire dam expedition was just 2 hours or so.

faridabobat

Thanks a lot-I included the dam because I thought I thought it would be a shame not to see one of the largest dams and one of my nieces was keen to see it as she is a geography teacher. I am thinking -perhaps we should leave it out and spend more time elsewhere-maybe Hangzhou or Xian or Beijing?

PeterN_H

> I'm arrivin in Shanghai on 17 July, and WANT TO fly to HONG KONG on 01 AUG . Should I book this in advance through a tour agent or book it myself whilst in China.

Book it yourself while in China. About two weeks in advance it the time to start looking. You'd get the best price by buying in Guilin, but you'll be leaving it a bit late for that.

> Ju;y-take flight to Yichang and visit THREE GORGES dam.

What with the acrobats, kung fu, 'Tang dynasty' show, and trip to Guilin/Yangshuo you do seem determined that your trip should be entirely made up of ersatz, overpriced, made-for-tourists experiences, rather than actually seeing China itself. But I would agree with the comment above that you should at least not waste your time with a flight to see the dam, or even to take the Three Gorges cruise.

> 01 Aug- take Li river cruise , go to Yangshou, then later take flight to Hong kong .

That's a lot for one day. You need to be sure there are evening flights on that route.

Cat12345

Bailong elevator is a monster.
Hard to imagine the idea of building a glass elevator onto the side of a cliff, defacing the natural scenery of Zhangjiajie National Park, Hunan.
Eyeglasses and buckteeth on Mona Lisa!

Cat12345

A typical day trip to see the Three Gorge Dam, Sandouping would be a 2-3 hour bus tour making two stops, one near the spill way, the other one on top of a mountain next to the shiplocks.
Bring umbrellas, the area is known for scattered showers.
Upstream Yangtze Cruises used to stop overnite in Sandouping before 1994.

Images2

Most of our flights in China were full. If you need a specific flight, don't wait to close to the date to book it.

The prices I bought tickets for on 9588.com were great. I tracked the prices a few weeks out so knew what a good price was. C-trip actually had a "shop" in the airport at Guilin next to our gate.

2 of our China Southern flights were very delayed. The passengers on one revolted with the gate agents. I've never seen such an arguement with airline employees. There is no english spoken at the Chinese air gates. When there is a problem it's very hard to get details of the delay.

If you go to a ticket agency to buy airline tickets, no one spoke english. We needed help with this the one time we did it. You must also pay cash for your tickets. It's much easier to buy tickets on line. They're e tickets and worked flawlessly.

faridabobat

Thank you very much marija, PeterN-H, Cat12345, Images2 .
If I have to book 2 weeks in advance for flight from Guilin to Hong Kong, I have to start looking as soon as I arrive in Shanghai. What is best way of doing this? I read on report by Indiancouple that they went to buy tickets fron a Travel Agent in Shanghai. I wonder how easy this would be going to China for first time. Also I would have to book all other flights at same time eg flight from Shanghai to Yichang(IF I still go?) on 22nd, Flight from Zhangjiajie to Beijing on 25th, Flight from Xian to Giulin on 31st and Flight from Guilin to Hong Hong on 01st for myself and to Shanghai for my 2 friends. Train tickets are also needed-can I get them from same travel agent -from Shanghai to Suzhou on 21st,From Suzhou to Hangzhou on 21st, Hangzhou to Shanghai on 22nd, Yichang to Zhangjiajie on 24th, Beijing to Xian on 29th.
MY God , what a lot of journeys.

Would appreciate any suggestions as i'm not a very avid travellor.
I believe Summer holidays in China are in July and August- I wonder if fares go up during school holidays, as they do in the UK. This might also mean booking flights and trains slightly earlier?

PeterN_H

> Most of our flights in China were full. If you need a specific flight, don't wait to close to the date to book it.

If you absolutely must have a particular flight and no other, this may be good advice. But when the flight will probably only have sold out in the last couple of hours before it takes off, its fullness is not of itself an argument for not waiting until arriving in China to make a booking.

> The prices I bought tickets for on 9588.com were great. I tracked the prices a few weeks out so knew what a good price was.

But this doesn't actually tell you anything about the prices available through other routes.

> If you go to a ticket agency to buy airline tickets, no one spoke english.

Slight temptation to say, "Duh!" here. This is, after all, China.

Nevertheless, most agents do have a few key words in English, but none are needed anyway. They know you want to buy a ticket, the timetable is bi-lingual, and prices communicated using a calculator or pen and paper. No one without Mandarin need have any fear of buying their own tickets.

Many agents do take credit cards, but there may be a surcharge. Cash is, in China, the usual way to pay for tickets. But with most under US$100, this isn't exactly a hardship.

Peter N-H

indiancouple

Faridabobat, my suggestions are as follows:

1. Instead of buying tickets from Guilin to Hongkong, consider buying tickets from Guilin to Shenzhen, which are about 50% cheaper. From Shenzhen airport to downtown Hongkong, or from Hongkong Intl airport to downtown Hongkong, is not much different in time or cost.

2. Set up an account on "Ctrip" site before you leave for China; it will only take a minute on your computer. Once in China, do all air bookings on the Ctrip site, and select the payment mode of "cash". They will deliver tickets to your hotel at no extra charge. In case of any difficulty, you can call their toll-free number from anywhere in China, and do the transaction over the phone (as we did). Their staff speak excellent English.

3. I endorse what Peter NH says about flights getting full; they get full a few hours before departure. If you are booking 4-5 days before departure, you have nothing to worry about.

4. For train tickets, ask your hotel to refer you to a suitable travel agent (usually different from the ones who do air bookings), or refer you to a "Train Booking Office". Here you may have some language problems, so try to keep someone with you who understands Chinese, and you can do all your train bookings at one shot in 10 minutes.

5. We bought our flight tickets at Shanghai from a travel agent who was 20 meters away from our hotel. Their staff spoke excellent English. We bought our train tickets from a Train Booking Office, which was another 15 meters down the road. At Beijing, we bought flight tickets from Ctrip over the phone, and they delivered the tickets to us in less than 60 minutes.

6. I notice that you are planning to fly from Xian to Guilin on 31st, and from Guilin to Hongkong on 1st. What a waste of time and money to go all the way to Guilin for 1 day; why not cut out some destinations, visit fewer places, and see them properly ? You will also create less stress for yourself. Remember, in travel, LESS is MORE. I would strongly suggest that you re-look at your itinerary, and have a slightly less hectic schedule. However, if you want to do it as you have planned, then booking tickets should be the least of your worries.

PeterN_H

> 4. For train tickets, ask your hotel to refer you to a suitable travel agent (usually different from the ones who do air bookings), or refer you to a "Train Booking Office".

Well, yes and no. Almost any hotel will obtain rail tickets for you, and where there's no official travel office, the reception will do it. Half the time they just pop round the corner to one of the myriad offices with computers on the railway network, pay the official booking fee of ¥5, and then come back and charge you ¥20 to ¥30, which you may well feel is perfectly acceptable for the time saved (although most Chinese would probably not), and expressed as a percentage of the total ticket price can be a pretty hefty commission rate, depending on where you are going and in what class.

If you go yourself to an agent with a ticketing computer on the rail system you'll be able to pay ¥5, too. If you go to the railway station itself you'll pay nothing. If you go to any other agent you'll again typically pay ¥20 to ¥30 including delivery, so you might in many cases just as well get the hotel to do it, unless their commission is significantly higher.

>Here you may have some language problems, so try to keep someone with you who understands Chinese, and you can do all your train bookings at one shot in 10 minutes.

Let's not overcomplicate matters. In straightforward purchasing situations like this you don't need Mandarin, although naturally it helps to have it. All you need is to get someone at the hotel write down your needs and present it: the train number if you have a particular train in mind, and if not then just the destination, the class of berth required, date, no. of tickets, etc. Note, too, that in larger cities there are still often special windows for foreigners or where staff have enough simple English to explain matters, or at least enough experience to be able to communicate (e.g. by crossing out the date you have and saying "No!", then writing in the dates they do have). I haven't looked recently, but Shanghai and Xi'an certainly did have such counters, and they also exist at Beijing Station, Beijing West, and Beijing South (which also has bi-lingual touch-screen self-serve ticketing machines, which will no doubt spread across the system shortly. China will often take you by surprise by leaping from inefficiency to state-of-the-art procedures that may not yet have reached your home town.)

Buying a ticket is mainly a question of whether you view going to the station and working out your own way to a ticket is part of the pleasure of being in an alien environment (like looking round food shops or hutong walking), or a waste of time that might be spent on official sight-seeing. But assuming a modest level of gumption, language need be no barrier in situations such as this.

There are, however, important differences between booking rail and air tickets that need to be understood. Rail tickets are typically only available ten days in advance including day of travel, and while it's a long time since I failed to travel in the day I wanted, it must be recognised that rail ticket acquisition is less reliable than air ticket acquisition. Furthermore, while there are good reasons not to use the on-line air ticket agencies yet in the end they may have their uses, advance on-line purchase of rail tickets from agencies offering such a service (more than ten days in advance, that is) may carry surcharges of up to 70%. It also needs to be understood not only that there are only very limited numbers of return tickets available (and it's only a year or so that there have been any at all for the general public), but these are only between major stations. Furthermore, at any one station you will only be able to buy tickets for trains departing from or run by the same railway bureau (and working out whose trains are whose is not a headache you want to give yourself). You cannot be in Beijing and buy a ticket for a train from Shanghai to Guangzhou, for instance, unless you involve a rapacious agency with nationwide reach such as CITS, which will charge you a fortune simply to call its Shanghai office to go and get you the ticket. The overwhelming majority of tickets for any one train are sold at its point of origin, with allocations of assorted sizes for intermediate stations, depending on the size and importance of each stop. So although your timetable may show many trains from where you are to where you want to go, you are much less likely to end up boarding those that are merely passing through. In short, it is still normal in China to buy or order your ticket back to where you came from or on to your next destination as soon as you arrive.

And in general having a minute-by-minute itinerary worked out and booked in advance tends to lead to considerable extra expense, a loss of the advantages gained from independent travel, and some frustration as the itinerary at some point goes awry. Have a rough plan of attack, be flexible, and make it up as you go along.

Peter N-H

Shanghainese

I agree with the comments to cut out some destinations so you don't overdo it and get exhausted. Leaving out 3 Gorges is good, is there a strong reason to visit Zhangjiajie? The bus ride there is very winding followed by a tiring hike (locals do carry tourists up in sedan chairs). Depending on your interests, you can take a daytrip from Shanghai to a watertown, and add a day to Yangshou or HongKong.

Cat12345

Zhou Zhuang & Zhujiajiao are the two watertowns near Shanghai.
Too much traffic to get any of the two.
The places are always too crowded.

faridabobat

Thank you everyone for your replies.. It is much appreciated and is very good advice. I have one important question, I believe the summer holidays in China are in July/August and a lot of people travel during these 2 months. Will this make it more difficult to get seats on trains and flights if booked in China, only a few days in advance and will the prices go up significantly?

My itenary was planned according to my interest by a chinese travel agent who i got in contact with. he is charging me 15000 RMB excluding a lot of internal tranferes to hotel etc. i now think this price is high and thus want to go Shanghai and do the bookings there myself. im just worried about the holiday period.

itenary: Jul 17(Fri): Arrive in Shanghai 1 pax (Farida) Arrival at O7.1O (AY 0057 Shanghai) . Transfer to hotel on your own.

Accommodation: Charms Hotel

Jul 18(Sat) to Jul 20th (Mon) Shanghai 1 pax Free on your own.

Accommodation: Charms Hotel

Jul 20(Mon): Hangzhou 2 pax (Farida's two friends) Two of Farida’s friends will arrive in Hangzho airport. Transfer and check in hotel on their own.

Accommodation: 4 star Hangzhou Lakeview Hotel

Jul 21(Tue): Shanghai-Suzhou-Haining 1 pax(Farida)
Transfer to Shanghai Railway Station on your own to take expressD5410 08:55/09:34 train to Suzhou. Upon arrival in Suzhou, your local guide will meet me at the railway station and transfer me to visit the Grand Canal by boat, the No. 1 Silk Factory to get more idea of Chinese silk, and the Master of Nets Garden. Then transfer to the railway station to take the express train D5475 19:20/ 21:15 to Haining. Upon arrival at the Haining Railway station, Take taxi and check in hotel on your own,stay with her other two friends.

Accommodation: 4 star Haining Hotel

Jul 21(Tue): Hangzhou 2 pax (Farida's two friends) (B)
Free on your own. Transfer to railway station and buy train ticke to Haining on your own. Arrive Haining 50 minutes later, transfer to hotel in Haining on your own.

Accommodation: 4 star Haining Hotel

Jul 22(Wed): Hangzhou-Shanghai 3 pax (B)
Explore tide bore at Yanguan Scenic area on your own. In the afternoon,buy train tickets back to Hangzhou on your own. Meet our driver at railway station and visit the Dragon Well Tea ( Longjing Tea ) Plantations Region to get more idea of the Hangzhou’s famous Dragon-Well Tea. Then transfer to your hotel.

Accommodation: 4 star Hangzhou Lakeview Hotel

Jul 23(Thu): Hangzhou-Yichang By flight-package included 3 pax
Transfer to airport on your own to connect domestic flight for Yichang. Meet our guide and go to the popular Three Gorges Dam-private tour basis. Transfer back to the hotel after tour.

Accommodation: 3 star Yiling Hotel or similar

Jul 24(Fri): Yichang-Zhangjiajie by train-package included 3 pax (B)
Morning is free for us to arrange our own activities. Then our guide will transfer us to the railway station and take the soft seat train 1473 13:08/18:20 to Zhangjiajie. Upon arrival, Take a taxi to the hotel on your own.

Accommodation: Beidouxing Hotel or similar

Jul 25(Sat): Zhangjiajie-Beijing by flight-package included 3 pax (B+L)
visit the National Forest Park, and the Bailong Elevator, China is the world’s largest exterior elevator.(Private Tour basis) Then transfer to airport for flight CA1360 21:50/00:20 to Beijing. Arrive Beijing, take taxi to hotel on your own.

Accommodation: On your own

Jul 26(Sun) to Jul 28(Tue) Beijing Free on your own, nothing included.

Jul 29(Wed): Beijing- Xian by train based on 4 berth cabin-package included 3 pax
Transfer to to the railway station on your own and take the overnight soft sleeper train to Xian.

Accommodation: train based on 4 berth cabin, soft sleeping bed.

Jul 30(Thu) Xian 3 pax ( private tour basis )
Pick you up at the railway station and transfer to the hotel. Breakfast and lunch on your own. Then proceed to the Terracotta Army. In the afternoon, visit the Great Mosque and the Muslim Street where you will have some free time in the street. Transfer back to your hotel in the late afternoon.

Accommodation: 4 star Xian Hotel or similar

Jul 31(Fri): Xian-Guillin by flight-package included 3 pax (B)
Transfer to airport via private van and take flight MU2329 0755/0930 to Guilin. Upon our arrival, meet our guide and take 2 hrs drive to Yangshuo to the hotel. Half day tour of Silver Cave and West Street.

Accommodation: 4 star Yangshuo Paradesa Resort

Aug 01(Sat): Guilin-Yangshuo-Guilin-Hong Kong (1 pax) airfare included - Shanghai (2 pax) 3 pax ----> 2 pax airfare included
Pick up from your hotel and transfer to Xingping. Take Bamboo boat from Xingping to Yangti and back to Xingping. Transfer to airport via private van and private guide,
Farida will transfer to airport with 2 freinds and board a flight to Hong Kong. End of tour.
.Farida’s 2 friends will transfer to airport with Farida and board the flight to Shanghai. Transfer to hotel via hotel shuttle bus.

Accomodation: Airline Travel Hotel Shanghai Pudong-one standard room

Aug 02(Sun) Farida's 2 friends
Transfer to airport via hotel shuttle bus. End of tour.

Any furhter suggestions will be extermely appreciated.
Indian couple thankyou for your advice setting up an account with ctrip which i will do, the day i arrive in shanghai i want to do what you did i.e go to a travel agency and book flights and then train tickets from a booking office. Could you tell me which travel agent you went to?

I have one day in Suzhou and have to leave that night for Haining, i wonder if i can do this on my own without a guide? also could you tell me the guide you booked in Yangshou

PeterN-H thankyou for your detailed reply, i just need to feel confident that i will be able to do these bookings and get the seats that i want.

thankyou all once again
farida

faridabobat

Indiancouple I forgot to ask -If I get flight to Shenzhen, how far is this from Hong Kong, and how will I get there, where I plan to stay in Tsim Sha Tsui area in a hostel.

thanks

Shanghainese

Charms in Shanghai is in an excellent location, the hotel itself is 3-star at best, very little english spoken, toilet looks like a few inches from the tub, check out TripAdvisor photos. I've stayed at the Hangzhou Lakeview, you'll like it.

Suzhou can be a day trip from Shanghai by bus or train, don't think you need a guide. Haining is close to Hangzhou, unless you want to view the tide at night (you'll hear it, don't think you can see anything unless it's a full moon night which has the highest tide, not sure if you want to stay in Haining.

indiancouple

Once you arrive at Shenzhen airport, collect your baggage, and emerge into the main arrival hall, go to counter A08 (if you have arrived into Arrival Hall A) or B04 (if in Arrival Hall B). These are the counters of the Shuttle Bus service that take you from Shenzhen Airport to downtown Hongkong. You can immediately buy a ticket for 90 Rmb or so. Buses leave every 30 minutes, and they will take you to a decent departure lounge also.

The Bus will stop at the border, where you will have to get down with your luggage, and go through the Customs and Immigration Hall. The Bus driver will tell you the number of the departure "station" on the other side, where another bus will be waiting. Going through the Customs and Immigration in the hall is very smooth and well organized, and when you emerge at the other side, there are a lot of numbered departure points for buses. Go to the number you were told by the driver, and you will find a bus waiting, which will take you to Elements Mall in Kowloon, from where you can transfer to a taxi or metro.

The entire journey, including the immigration clearance, takes about 90 minutes. Buses are good, and there is no hassle during border crossing.

PeterN_H

> I believe the summer holidays in China are in July/August and a lot of people travel during these 2 months.

This is profoundly wrong. The summer is low season for travel in China and there are no public holidays of any length in this period. Certain mountain and island resorts with a reputation for coolness see a lot of weekend travel if easily reached from cities. The northeast is a popular destination for students during the summer. Otherwise bear in mind that still only a very small part of the total workforce has discretionary holiday, and they mostly choose to travel in the spring and autumn.

> i now think this price is high and thus want to go Shanghai and do the bookings there myself.

If you want a trip from tourist trap to tourist trap, planned to the last second, overpaying for nonentity hotels, you might as well just go ahead and pay through the nose for what you already have.

If you're going to book for yourself then do so in the spirit of independent travel, be flexible, and enjoy the cost savings this will bring, too. As it is it's a determination to stick to an itinerary planned to the last millisecond, as opposed to having a general route and list of priorities, that will bring you grief when you fail to achieve it. You don't need to plan to the last millisecond, and in fact you don't need to arrive in China with anything booked at all (although you might want to have your first night's hotel booked, just for convenience while you get your bearings). You don't need tour guides for any of these destinations, but will see more, understand more, and be ripped off less if you just take decent reading material with you when you go.

> the day i arrive in shanghai i want to do what you did i.e go to a travel agency and book flights and then train tickets from a booking office

It has already been explained that you will not be able to buy train tickets in Shanghai for trains leaving other parts of China (unless there has been some very recent development on this front). And you will generally get better prices for air tickets at the point of departure.

Again, if you are flexible you will get everything you want, and you can just make up your trip as you go along. If you really cannot handle that idea (and that's fine--some people simply can't or don't want to), and absolutely really must see the exhausting list of tourist traps on your schedule, then the only way to guarantee that (more or less) is to pay a travel agent and put up with the side-effects of doing so.

Peter N-H

thursdaysd

I would definitely book the first hotel, nothing I want to do less after a long flight than to hunt for a hotel. But other than that I completely agree with Peter's post. The only thing you HAVE to do is make your return flight. There's SO much to see in China that you'll have a great trip even if you miss a couple of the "must-sees".

Shanghainese

Have you done independent travel before? If yes, dump your travel agent who's mis-guiding and mis-treating you. Assume you have booked your international flights, first things first is re-think your itinerary, you have got good advice here. Then look into hotels and how to get from A to B to C ..., note I didn't say book them but if you must,that's your choice and it's ok. 3rd task is easy, how to pack in and get to all the "must-sees" if you want your trip to be that way.