Liz5959

What are the general criteria of when should one use miles, vs paying for a flight vs using miles to upgrade? My uncle called to ask my advice yesterday, and as much as I seached, there does not seem to be any consensus. Also, he is using AmEx miles, which I have no experience with.

Uncle is in Philly. He is going to Paris in July with some flexiblity in dates. Probably would fly from Newark to Paris and then London to Newark for the return. He would like to use the AmEx miles. I suggested that if he couldn't use them for the flight, he could at least use them to upgrade to business class and be more comfortable.

Any thoughts, ideas or suggestions are much appreciated.

BillT

This is how I view this question. It costs 50,000 miles for a Europe ticket in coach on most airlines. Now depending on when you fly a Europe ticket could cost you anywhere from $400- $800 if you bought a ticket in coach. So those miles are worth anywhere from $400 to $800. If you can get tickets for $400 I would not use my miles, but if your ticket is going to cost you $800 then i think its worth using the miles. I personally never use miles for upgrading- as I don't think its worth the cost. others will have different views on this matter so its really up to you.

yk

Given that your uncle has AMEX points (not miles), either your uncle or you need to familiarize yourselves with AMEX rules.

And does your uncle want to fly coach or he only wants Biz?

With AMEX points, he has 2 options:

1) Convert AMEX points to FF miles (usually 1:1 conversion) to a specific airline. AMEX has affliation with multiple airlines but not ALL. Then your uncle can use those FF miles for his flight.

2) Directly book his flight using AMEX points via AMEX travel. He'll just book his flight via AMEX travel and pay the flight with points rather than cash (1 point = 1 cent, so if the ticket is $500, he'll need 50,000 points). This way, he'll have the choice of his airline and ASAIK, will earn FF miles too.

If your uncle wants to buy a coach ticket on X airline and then use FF miles for upgrade, pls let him know that most (maybe all) airlines require:
1) miles + co-pay for int'l upgrade. eg, AA charges 25k miles plus $300 for one-way upgrade
2) an upgradable coach fare ticket (ie, some deeply discounted coach fares are non-upgradable)

yk

BTW, for option one listed above (transfer AMEX points to a FF program), the downside is:
e.g. he transfers 50k points to CO's Onepass program and now has 50k miles. He then checks on CO for FF seats to Europe - ooops, none available. Now he's got all these miles on CO and can't use them.

Jed

The world is divided between those who are satisfied sitting in coach and paying less, and those who like more comfort and going BC. Into which group does you uncle fit?

How many AMEX Rewards points does he have? Enough for a BC seat, or just an upgrade?

Which airline is he looking at - Delta, Continental, other? I assume he is not considering going from PHL since he cannot transfer points to USAir. Is that right?

Personally, if I can afford it, any long flight is worth the points.

Gardyloo

First, there are numerous types of American Express cards. Some have ties to airlines that allow use of Amex points for upgrades, but many don't. Unfortunately you'll need to be more specific as to which card he has - he'll need to consult the Amex website and/or the website of the airline to which his card is tied (if any) in order to see if upgrading is even possible. And of course that's before any question of award space, either upgraded or straight award - is even asked.

There are lots of rules of thumb about when an award makes sense over a purchased ticket. The one I subscribe to goes like this:

I pay, whether I know it or not, around 1 to 1.5 (US) cents for each mile I obtain through credit card purchases and any annual fees charged by the credit card.

Thus I never redeem miles for less than I paid for them. And in practice I never redeem them for anything less than at least 2.5 cents in value per mile. Thus, for example, if the award costs 25,000 miles for a domestic economy trip, I'd regard that trip having a "break even" cost of $375, and I probably wouldn't use miles for any trip with a purchase price of under $600 - $700, remembering that I'll earn miles on the purchased ticket but won't on the award.

For upgrades, the "value" of your miles is usually hugely increased compared to the cost of a first class or business class ticket compared to coach. For example, if a US < > Europe ticket costs $1000 in coach, but I can upgrade to business for 30,000 miles each way (total 60,000 miles round trip) then my miles should be worth no less than 2.5 cents to me, i.e. $1500 for the upgrade on top of the $1000 for the coach ticket. So could I purchase a business class ticket for $2500 or less? Maybe, maybe not.

On a straight business class award, most airlines offer "saver" tickets at 90,000 miles per ticket for US < > Europe. 90,000 x 2.5 cents = $2250, so cheaper than the coach + upgrade, but again, I'd earn miles on the upgraded ticket but not on the award, so that factors in the decision too.

This is just my rule of thumb and others will have different tolerances. But you can do the math and see if it makes sense to you (or your uncle.)

But before anything else he needs to be sure he can use his Amex miles for upgrades at all, or else the discussion is moot.

travelgourmet

Except you should remember that the Amex conversion is (normally) near-instantaneous for several partners, including Continental and Delta, so you can call the partners, have them search availability, and just initiate the transfer online when they find the tickets. You should have the points immediately to finish booking the ticket.

As to whether to use them for flights or upgrades? Well, using them for upgrades can be difficult and expensive. On Continental, for example, if you purchase a discount fare (and remember discount does not mean cheap), you will have to pay a co-pay of up to $450 each way to upgrade with miles. This means that your $800 flight is now $1700 + 40k miles, which is a fair price, but is still expensive. And availability can be very poor on CO (and not much better elsewhere). With other carriers, like Delta, you have to buy a more expensive fare class, in order to upgrade. Again, this means the ticket will likely cost you as much as $2000. At those prices, you might look at L'Avion, which is an all biz airline that flies from Newark to Paris.

Of course, availability for free tickets, in July, can be really tough. So, your uncle may be out of luck.

In general, though, I try to get something in the 3+ cents per mile range for a redemption. For a coach ticket at 50k miles, this means I would use them if the ticket was over $1500.

Patty

When you say Amex miles, do you mean Membership Rewards points? If so, there are 3 levels of MR - MR Express, MR and MR First. With MR Express, one cannot transfer points to FF programs so let's first make sure that's not the one he has. MR Express usually comes with the fee free cards like Blue, Nest, etc. MR and MR First points can be transfered to FF programs.

How many points does he have?

Does he want to travel in economy or business?

yk,
I assume CO will hold awards and transfers from MR are instantaneous, so it shouldn't be a problem to check availability first, hold award, then transfer.

rkkwan

Assuming the OP is thinking about CO...

- Yes, you can hold a Onepass award (till midnight central time next day online or even longer by phone), transfer miles over, and then ticket.

- One has to be very clear about upgrade rules and chances on CO. You are very unlikely to find tickets that are upgradeable at time of booking. Even less likely than finding "Saver Pass" BF awards outright at the 50K/each way level.

Instead, you may have to get on the waitlist. Now, they will deduct your miles right away to get on the waitlist, and refund you if you don't clear. But you can't transfer back CO miles back to AMEX Mileage Plus. So, you're taking a huge risk, unless you don't mind having miles stuck in CO.

Also, most discount fares have a co-pay to use mileage upgrades. Up to $450 each way. You need to compare the cost of the whole ticket vs just buying the ticket outright.

Continental has discount BF fares to Europe in summer. It may be just over $2,000. That's no more than buying a coach ticket + the co-pay.

Liz5959

Thank you all, I've learned a lot and realize I need to ask my uncle some questions.. And yes, he's not looking to fly out of Philly because of the USAir issue. He could certainly go from JFK, but I think EWR is easier to get to from Philly.

I'll be back with answers about his AmEx card and what type of points he has. .

Liz5959

My uncle has a "Rewards Plus" AmEx card and almost 90,000 points.

I looked at the AmEx website. It does look like you can book flights with rewards points directly through that website. I assume that is an advantage over converting the points to a specific airlines' FF miles and then risking not getting a flight (if I am understanding yk's comments correctly). Or are there more airlines available if you convert miles rather than do points? (I don't have an Amex, so can't login to their website to really find out).

Thanks for all the help.

yk

If your uncle books directly thru AMEX travel site, his 90k points will be equivalent to $900. He can choose whichever airline and itin he wants. But of course, $900 is barely enough for coach to Europe.

Just doing a quick dummy booking on CO for EWR-CDG, LHR-EWR for mid-July. Economy is $946. So your uncle will use up all his 90k points plus pay the $46 difference. In return, he will earn CO FF miles for this.

OTOH, if your uncle can find a SaverPass reward on Continental, he can fly the same flights for just 50k miles - so he can save 40k AMEX points.

But the main problem, as others have pointed out, is whether such SaverPass reward is avaiable for July to Europe.

Patty

The Rewards Plus card participates in MR so he can either use points directly to pay for a flight (not good value but not limited by award availability either plus most likely earns miles) or transfer his points to an airline FF program and redeem an award ticket (usually better value but subject to award availability). He can also transfer his points to an airline FF program to use for upgrades but as discussed above this involves purchasing a higher economy fare or copay plus is subject to upgrade availability (which is usually different than award availability).

MR point to mile transfers are available to Delta, Continental, Air France/KLM, Aeromexico, Virgin Atlantic, Air Tran, El Al, Mexicana, JetBlue, Singapore, Frontier, Alitalia, ANA, Air Canada, Southwest and Hawaiian. Transfers to many of the programs, such as Delta, Continental, Virgin and I believe Air Canada, are instant so there's no risk of not getting the flight because you would check availability <i>before</i> transferring and either put a reservation on hold or do an instant transfer while you're on the phone with the airline, then transfer and ticket. This is obviously trickier if transferring to one of the airline programs, such as Air France/KLM or ANA, which is not instant and to my knowledge will not hold award reservations. I would choose a program that either allows award holds or instant transfers.

More info is available at www.membershiprewards.com

With 90K points, he can also look at business class (via transferring, not paying directly). If he needs some additional points, Amex will advance gold cardholders up to 15K points to be &quot;repaid&quot; within 1 year. If not repaid within 1 year, they'll charge him $25 per 1000 points for whatever negative balance he has at that time.