jillp

We are considering taking the Odysseys Unlimited tour of "Southern Africa Odyssey" (Kruger,Jo'burg, Vic Falls, Chobe Park, Windhoek, Sossusviei/Cape Town) in 2010. It's our first trip to Africa and a safari adventure. Has anyone taken this trip with this tour company? What is the best month to go to these locations? Is safety an issue there? We will fly out of JFK or Newark; would you advise flying from the east coast of US to Europe, staying overnight, then continuing the journey?? Any information would be appreciated.

craig_beal

taking into consideration all the destinations, the best months would be may or september. this is taking into account the water volume over vic falls, the game viewing in the chobe, the heat in the namib desert, and the winter in cape town. each month has its advantages and disadvantages but that is my opinion. chobe is best in july-october. vic falls is best mid-april to mid-june, cape town is best october-march. namibia is best may-september..

odysseys unlimited is a great company but i am afraid this is an AWFUL itinerary. i cannot believe anyone would send a client to southern africa for 17 days and spend one day on safari. if this is your first trip to africa, you should have at least ten days on safari for this length of trip. the sabi sands (the optional extension) should be included in the main tour. here are some other points to consider:
3 nights in vic falls is too long
1 night in chobe is WAY too short for your only safari
2 nights in namibia is WAY too short. i would go for at least ten days. maybe on your next trip...
one of the big highlights of cape town in july-november is the southern right whales in hermanus. this amazing event is not included?
why go to the township of soweto when you can visit a township in cape town?
day 10 & 12 - the drive this day is about 6-8 hours in a desert.
you are going all the way to victoria falls it would be a shame not to go on safari in the okavango delta of botswana since you are getting so close.
biggest weakness: NO SAFARI IN SOUTH AFRICA. what's the point of going?

this a very poorly crafted itinerary.

craig beal

atravelynn

Craig Beal responded while I was still crafting my answer offline. He is more blunt than I am. But I'm not sold on this either.

#3 on Travel & Leisure's list of 2008 World's Best Tour Operators.—Not that I put a lot of stock in that, but it shows they are not a scam. They made Nat Geo’s 2007 list of adventure outfitters. BBB is prominent. All good.

Here is their nice deal in bad times:
New Price Reductions! Now save $1,200 per person
on all departure dates; Plus save $200 per person on Kruger pre-tour option

17 days is $5400 to $6400, flight included, with the $1200 savings. That seems like a decent price but when I looked at what you do, many of the activities are not that expensive.

Please tell us WHEN you are going. That makes a difference in the desirability of these places.

12-24 people. I'd ask how many for your itinerary.

The elephant ride would probably make the trip a no-go for me.

Day 1: Depart U.S. for Johannesburg, S.A.
Day 2: Arrive Johannesburg/Sandton

Day 3: Pretoria/Soweto Today’s touring begins in Pretoria, the South African capital just 30 miles from Johannesburg. This afternoon we tour Soweto, Dinner tonight is on our own. B
----Soweto is very worthwhile.

Day 4: Johannesburg/Victoria Falls We fly today to Victoria Falls and our deluxe hotel located in the Victoria Falls Private Game Reserve. Tonight a sunset cruise on the Zambezi. B,D
----If Vic Falls is a key priority, this trip spends a good deal of time there. I find 1 or maybe 2 nts to be adequate.

Day 5: Victoria Falls This morning we tour the Falls Later we visit with children at a local school. Tonight we attend a “Boma” (African place of eating) for dinner and a traditional dance performance. B,D
----I liked the traditional dance performances I've seen at Vic Falls

Day 6: Victoria Falls We enjoy a small group highlight this morning as we embark on an elephant-back safari through the bush in the Victoria Falls Private Game Reserve
----Too often the eles used were obtained unethically, and are deprived of life in the wild. http://www.fodors.com/community/afri...ck-safaris.cfm
More big game is on the agenda on our nighttime game drive. B,D
----Is the night drive in Mosi-oa-Tunya National Park in Zambia? Or where?
----I saw in their optional activities “lion walk with cubs.” Those cubs will likely be sold to hunting farms when they are older and shot with no chance for escape. Not long ago a tourist was killed doing a lion walk with captive lions. Bad choice of activities and I’m not thrilled with a company that supports this.

Day 7: Botswana/Chobe National Park full-day excursion to Chobe, where we enjoy a game drive through this exceptional reserve.
----A trip to Chobe without a late afternoon wildlife cruise on the Chobe River is missing a key element. Where do you stay?B,D

Day 8: Victoria Falls/Windhoek Today we fly to via Johannesburg. B,D

Day 9: Windhoek/Sossusvlei On our drive to Sossusvlei in the Namib Desert today we traverse town of Solitaire, Rehoboth and Klein Aub. Mid-day we arrive at our eco-friendly desert lodge, where we enjoy lunch then embark on an after¬noon nature drive B,L,D

Day 10: Sossusvlei/Namib-Naukluft Park We rise with the sun to see the world’s highest crested sand dunesVisitors are free to climb the dunes – or to just admire them from ground level. We return to the lodge for lunch and an afternoon at leisure in this splendid setting. B,L,D

Day 11: Sossusvlei Today is free to relax by the pool or engage in optional lodge activities, including nature drives, sundowner drives, quad-bike rental, and guided walks. B,L,D
----If a look at dunes of Namibia, but no extensive desert time, was a key priority, then this provides it.

Day 12: Sossusvlei/Windhoek/Cape Town This morning we make the return drive to Windhoek then fly to Cape Town. Late afternoon we transfer to our well located hotel in the popular Victoria & Albert Waterfront area. B,L

Day 13: Cape Town Panoramic city tour and Hout Bay. We also travel to the Cape of Good Hope Nature Reserve, 19,000 acres of protected parkland. Here we ride a monorail to the summit for stupendous views of the “meeting of the oceans, the Atlantic and Indian. After a seafood lunch, we visit historic Simons Town & African Penguin colony at Boulders Beach. B,L

Day 14: Cape Town/Cape Winelands Today we visit the Cape Winelands, South Africa’s renowned wine-growing region just 45 miles east of Cape Town. Ppass through the lovely towns of Paarl, Franschloek, and Stellenbosch. Late afternoon we return to Cape Town. B,L

Day 15: Cape Town Robben Island that once held Nelson Mandela and other opponents of apartheid. We ride by cable car 3,500 feet to the top of iconic Table Mountain. Following an afternoon at leisure, tonight we toast our Southern Africa adventure at a farewell dinner at our hotel. B,D

--overall, nice assortment of Cape Town activities
Day 16: Depart for U.S. Early this afternoon we transfer to the Cape Town airport for our return flights to the U.S. B
Day 17: Arrive U.S. We arrive in the U.S. this morning and connect with our flights home.

If you wanted just a tad of wildlife on your Africa trip, with a focus on scenery and city, this does it. I personally would want more wildlife in a trip of this length. Your day in Chobe will provide a good safari experience. The night drive, maybe. You may see some wildlife in Namibia, but the stunning dunes are the attraction there.

I would ask for transport and drive times between all of these destinations. Then you can see how much time you are spending coming and going and how much time you are actually enjoying what you paid to see.

I cannot imagine foregoing the Kruger extension. Then you'd have more safari time.

Why don't you list the things you'd like from a safari in Africa and the people on this forum can suggest an itinerary or company that will provide you with what you want. I bet when you stop to consider what you are looking for, it won't be this Odyssey trip. And if it is, then you know you are getting just what you want.

ekscrunchy

Ii am from NYC and I took my first trip to southern Africa in 2007. I would give the highest recommendation to this agency; they planned me entire trip and were a joy to work with. You should contact them and see what they come up with.

The guide I had in CapeTown, Charlie Ratcliffe, is leading some tours for them. Having him as our guide was one of the best parts of our entire trip!


http://www.southerndestinations.com/...s/south_africa

ekscrunchy

Also: We flew KLM from JFk to CapeTown with a change of planes in Amsterdam. We did not overnight in Amsterdam, but if I had the time to do so, I would.

There was surprisingly little jet lag upon arrival.

jillp

Thank you for your responses and detailed recommendations. This is my first time using this site and I'm impressed. "Atravelynn" suggested I list what we want to see, etc. Time isn't an issue--2 or 3 weeks, that won't be an issue. We thought South Africa area was the safest area in Africa at the moment to plan to visit. We want to see Cape Town and that area. Seeing whales aren't a priority, have seen them before in Alaska. Seeing the wildlife on many safaris is the big attraction, along with birds, Vic Falls and the Dunes. I want to stay in accomodations that are safe and modern--not a tent or 'rustic'. I want to be confident that snakes won't be slithering into my room, hence the search for tour companies that are more upscale (not luxury prices, though, and we aren't into fancy, expensive dinners and wines in the hotels.) We did take the Odysseys tour of China last year and found it to be excellent and better than our trips with OAT and GCT, but I understand what some of you have said about this particular tour. Help!

sandi

Most group tours as above try to get in so much, they spend more time getting from place to place then actual time spent on the ground. And, when on the ground, the best places are often left out (instead provided as extensions, pre- or post), or too much time at places (i.e., Vic Falls) when less is more than sufficient.

Though for 2010, there are so many deals for airfare direct from JFK to JNB, you can actually arrange separate air and using a good in-country tour outfitter (SA based) to handle the land portion.

As Craig mentions above, time of year will determine weather in the southern hemisphere, wet or dry seasons and price, though their "winter" months, aren't like those we have here in the Northeast.

If you fly into JNB, connect to CPT to start the trip. If into CPT direct, spend the first 4/days here. It's a wonderful keeper of a city. You can do township tour here.

Then head to Namibia (desert dunes and desert game) for at mininum 3/days. Believe from WDH there is a flight to Kisane for 2-3/days at Chobe (safari), then road transfer to Vic Falls. The drive is on decent road and takes about 1.5-2/hrs. Spend 1-2/days only. Then fly into JNB for o/n. Next day fly to Kruger for 3-4/days safari. Back to JNB and homebound.

You'll be perfectly safe on a private itinerary which takes care of all ground arrangements, meet/greet and transfers at airports, guides for city tours, your choice of accommodations at your budget. As to tented camps, these can be as luxurious as you wish, with more room than your own home/apt, ensuite bathrooms with tubs and showers and every imagineable amenity... nothing like sleeping under canvas for a true safari experience. Even the moderately priced camps are worthy of consideration. All are perfectly safe..

Snakes. The only ones I've seen in 14/yrs traveling to Africa was 1) dead mamba in the middle or the road; 2) small garter-type snake that we have here in the States... harmless. Few creepy crawlies, gecko's yes but they eat bugs... also harmless. Most of us have more critters in our own backyards.

Good luck!

atravelynn

So “ 2-3 weeks. “
Budget may dictate your # of days as well, but if you can do about 3 weeks, that’s better than 2.

When to go? You’ll definitely want to skip late May through mid-Aug of 2010 to avoid the World Cup crowd in South Africa. Soccer was not one of your expectations, I noted.

Here is a chart of the best wildlife viewing times in all of Africa. You can check the places you’d like to include a safari. It also has temps.
http://www.africa-adventure.com/dsp_besttime.html

These charts have rainfall as well.
http://www.uyaphi.com/afriweather.htm
http://www.classicescapes.com/sa-weather.html

“South Africa for safety.“
On an escorted or guided trip, it will be quite safe and Namibia is similar in safety. Even though it is in Zimbabwe, Victoria Falls is such an international destination, that it is safe too. If you wanted to see the falls from the Zambian side, you could do that instead.

“Vic Falls.”
Several hours is enough to enjoy the falls, requiring one overnight near the falls. You could even view them in the morning and again in the afternoon, spending a whole day there so that you’d need 2 nights. You could do a night safari one of those nights (probably in the smal park, Mosi O Tunya) and you could do a leisurely sunset raft float the other night. in But 3 nights at Vic Falls is not common unless you are white water rafting and bungee jumping. You also could base yourself in Chobe National Park and do a day trip to Vic Falls. It looked like your itinerary was doing the opposite of staying in Vic Falls and doing a day trip to Chobe, but it was hard to tell because I didn’t see where you stayed the night after visitng Chobe.

“Cape Town but whales are not a biggie.”
How about Great White Sharks? June through Oct, you can see them, and with some luck you can see them breach in their predation on seals. Maybe walk with baboons through baboon matters. A fraction of the cost of gorilla permits, and an outstanding primate activity. The shark and baboon activities can be done in Simons Town, where the penguin colony is.

Regarding Cape Town, I could pose the question again for just this city. List what you’d like to do here. There is so much from culture to nature to scenery.
http://www.fodors.com/community/afri...-cape-town.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...4&tid=35120876


“Seeing the wildlife on many safaris is the big attraction, along with birds”
Then Odyssey falls short here. Maybe the Kruger extension would help. There are many places in Kruger or in the neighboring private Sabi Sands Game Reserve, where you can venture off road in guided safaris, greatly increasing your wildlife viewing. A couple of the more economical places are Arathusa and Elephant Plains.

“ the Dunes.”
A 3 day trip to the dunes from South Africa is not hard to arrange. Odyssey seemed to fulfill this requirement.

“accommodations that are safe and modern--not a tent or 'rustic'.”
No problem. Even the tents at most accommodations are not rustic. They are exquisitely luxurious.

“ I want to be confident that snakes won't be slithering into my room.”
Highly unlikely, just like it is unlikely to happen in warm climates in the US. To reduce chances, go in the dry season.

I was going to mention OAT, but you have considered it. Maybe check Globus, Brendan, GAP, Peregrine, or see what a AAA office suggests for group trips. 2Afrika in NYC does group trips.

That’s good you have positive experience with Odyssey. You could ask to talk with other clients who have done this itinerary.

cwn

I would say three days is too long. We were just in Victoria Falls. Due to the situation there we planned for and spent one night. I am glad we saw the Falls, but one night was enough. We visited two hotels...Kingdom and one out on the River and stayed in Victoria Falls Hotel. All the hotels are in need of repair etc some more than others. The situation in the country is really hurting the tourist industry and the situation in VF is only going to get worse. There were just a hand full of people in the hotels and there were 8 of us on a sunset cruise boat that was builf for 30.

jillp

I appreciate all your input. I've looked at some of the recommended sites some of you gave me. Thanks. We will go either in Nov 08 or Feb 09. I have narrowed the trip to Kruger, Vic Falls (short time there),Chobe, Cape Town, but still want to see the dunes. I have crossed Odysseys Unlimited's tour off our list. Our budget is about $6000/pp, including flights from USA/East Coast. Can some of you give me updated advice?

jillp

oops...meant Nov. 09 or Feb. 2010 for our trip.

Patty

It can be brutally hot at Sossusvlei in Nov or Feb. The best time to go to Namibia is during the southern hemisphere winter. Perhaps consider it for another trip as Namibia really deserves more than 2-3 days just to see the dunes.

atravelynn

Here is a chart of temps and when wildlife is best in different areas.

http://www.africa-adventure.com/dsp_besttime.html

You'll see Feb is not the best time for Chobe. One of Chobe's attractions are the huge herds of elephants that congregate along the river. In Feb there is plenty of water elsewhere due to the short rains so you can expect far fewer elephants and other wildife near the river.

The same principle holds for Kruger and therefore Feb is not a good month for mammal viewing, however birding (which you mentioned at one point) would be good here and in Chobe.

If going in Nov, I'd go as early as possible, again due to rains that often start in Nov.

Namibia does deserve more than a couple of days of dune vieiwng. That assumes you are going back to Namibia some day when you can spend more time. If this is your one shot at Africa and the sand dunes are high on the list, then it may be worth the expense to shoot over to Namibia to see them. I'd ask to have that part of the trip costed separately so you can see what you are paying for the dunes.

So it's South Africa for Cape Town and Kruger. Then I'd stay in Chobe and do a day trip to the falls. Plus the dunes in Namibia.

If you are willing to self drive in Cape Town & Kruger (which I don't do but many people do with no trouble at all) that saves even more.

I'd check with these Africa specialists to see what they can do (listed in no order)--you can Google them for contact info.

Cardboard Box in Namibia--their name is not indicative of the accommodations they book. I haven't gone with them but have been very impressed with my communications with them. Others have had good trips with them. Since dunes are high on your list, they could help you there and even suggest who you could go with for the rest of your trip.

Go2Africa in South Africa

Southern Destinations in South Africa

The Africa Adventure Company in Ft. Lauderdale

Eyes on Africa in Chicago

atravelynn

You know what other company has good prices?

2Afrika in NYC, though I've never used them. But they have offered extended trips in Chobe, one of the spots you wanted to go.

laughternlife

I just came back from a similar tour with an Acacia Overland. I dont have any info on the tour company or the best time of year as I went in Jan/Feb which is not supposed to be good for seeing animals but we saw the Big 5 in Kruger. It was supposed to be the nice time for Cape Town so a gamble either way. Seems that the weather changes when covering this large area as there are two oceans to contend with for weather patterns.

As far as the areas you will see.... it is great! Johannesburg and the west is very different from Namibia so you will alway have different scenery. There is lots to do at all the locations and I never felt unsafe at all. Just regular city safety things you would do at home. The only thing to be aware of is in cities there are guards at bank machines for major banks - those are the ones you are looking for. Otherwise enjoy!

cary999

LL- curious, how did you safari in Kruger? It was part of Acacia tour? Did you stay in Kruger camp or outside of Kruger? We love Kruger and going back in Sept, but, have never seen leopard there and lions only rarely. Everything else especially elephants are great.

regards - tom

laughternlife

We stayed just outside Kruger at the Bushman Adventure Camp. I know if you have seen the Overland companies you are thinking how we ever saw anything with those huge trucks - we had guides come in with safari trucks that took us for full day drives. We did see a leopard with cubs which was awesome as well as lion, lots of elephant, buffalo and rhino. It was very lucky to see them all so quickly! It was not supposed to be the best time of year as it was so green but it was great. If I went back I would like to stay in the park for a few days for sure though.

cary999

Ok LL, understand, thanks.
We fly (from USA) into JNB rent/hire car from Avis and drive to Kruger, about 6 hours. Then simply drive ourselves around seeing whatever. Staying overnight at one of the many Kruger camps. A private comfortable hut, 2 people, is about $70 per night. And doing meals at the camp restaurants.

regards - tom

atravelynn

Laugheternlife,

Your account goes to show that you can go at a time of year that is not ideal and travel with a budget overland company and have a great trip with special sightings. Africa always comes through.

jillp

Your responses have been helpful. I'm waiting to hear back from one company in South Africa with info and we are also considering the "Ultimate Africa" tour with OAT. I'll need more help with clothing do's and don't's and more once we decide on a specific date and location. What do you think of the OAT itinerary--19 game drives, Vic Falls, Chobe, Mudumu Park, Okavango Delta, Hwange Park, extension to Cape Town?