jh6000

Hi, all,

Thanks to all of you for helping me to get to where I am in terms of finalizing a Botswana/Vic Falls itinerary for next June. I would love any final feedback on the following itinerary and questions posed thereafter:

3 nights at Kwetsani Camp
3 nights at Chitabe Camp
3 nights at Chobe Game Camp (have an option for King's Pool, but have a hard time justifying the extra $2400)
2 nights at Royal Livingstone

Specific questions:

1) If we spend three nights at Kwetsani, we would be flying up to Kwetsani from Cape Town in a single day (catching a 6am flight from Cape Town to Jo'burg and a 10am flight to Maun, with connections onward to Kwetsani). Does it make sense to do this (and incur the higher expense of having an extra night at Kwetsani) versus merely flying up to Maun on one day, overnighting there and catching a flight from Maun to Kwetsani the next morning (thus reducing our stay to 2 nights at Kwetsani)?

2) Chobe Game Camp isn't the ideal (it's larger than I'd ideally like), but Savuti is sold out. And, I don't think an additional $1200/person for three nights here makes sense -- could use that money for hiring private guides or other activities. Does that choice make sense? [I want to stay with W-S properties because of the discount for staying 7 days at their properties].

3) Vic Falls: Two questions: Having looked at all sorts of reviews, Tongabezi was my first choice. However, I am waitlisted there. Sussi and the Royal Livingstone were next choices, and -- based on comments about Sussi (state of disrepair, food, and distance from the falls) and a cost that appears to be twice as high as the RL -- I am opting to stay at the Royal Livingstone. Any thoughts on that?

Also, we are flying on frequent flyer tickets out of Jo'burg. If we stay two nights at Vic Falls, we would be returning to Jo'burg on the same day we fly out (we fly out at 7:20pm). If we miss our flights that night in Jo'burg for any reason, there may no longer be frequent flyer seats on any subsequent flights and we could end up paying several thousand dollars to get back to the US. Does it make sense to fly in to Jo'burg the night before our departure date, or is transportation from Livingstone sufficiently reliable such that we need not be that cautious and we can spend two nights in Livingstone? [Note: if we return the day of our flights, I would return on a early-afternoon flight that would give me one fallback flight if needed to get to Jo'burg in case the first flight doesn't leave for some reason].

Thanks so much for your feedback.

Much appreciated.

John H.

ShayTay

Kwetsani and Chitabe are both wonderful camps... congratulations! Almost everyone flies to Maun in the morning (if you can get that flight), then flies on to their various camps. I don't think there is much in the way of accomodations in Maun. It will work out to three full days at the camp because you'll almost certainly have a game drive on your last morning at Kwetsani before you fly to Chitabe.

We were unable to get on that morning flight and didn't make it in to Maun until the afternoon, so we got to Chitabe late afternoon. On the way into camp, we saw a leopard in a tree... great way to start the safari!

We stayed in Victoria Falls, Zimbabwe and were at Ilala Lodge. The flight back to Jo'burg was around Noon, as I recall and we had no problems making connections. It sounds like you'll be in Zambia and I'm not sure what time your flight is. If you make it late morning or early afternoon, you should be fine. You could double-check on what other flights might be leaving after yours. I'm not sure what the rules are regarding frequent flier tickets, once you've started your journey. That might be a question for a FF board such as www.fliertalk.com. I've been to Africa several times on FF tickets, but haven't had that happen to me. I'd like to know, too!

Toshi

You could also check to see how travel insurance would handle the "flight delayed so we missed our international flight home" issue.

Also, all airlines differ, but I believe that it would be the discretion of the airline/gate agent rather than if there were official frequent flyer seats available. For example, last year we had FF tickets to Kenya (Chicago-Toronto-London-Nairobi - it sucked, but it was all we could get). I called a few days before and even though there weren't official frequent flyer seats available, they were able to move us to the Chicago-London direct flight. It all depends what kind of mood they are in, if the flights have open seats, etc.

jh6000

Thanks so much for your responses, Shay and Toshi.

From your response, Shay, it sounds like it would be worth getting up early to catch the 6:00am flight to Jo'burg and the 10am flight to Maun and continuing on to Kwetsani all in one day -- thanks for that input.
Thanks for your input on the flights, Toshi. Your routing is about the same as the one I was able to get for the couple traveling with me: they fly SF-Boston-Frankfurt-Cape Town there and Jo'burg-London-Frankfurt-Philly-SF on the return. Not great routing, but someone at United worked very hard in pulling that frequent flyer routing together, in spite of my request being 10 months in advance of our actual travel.

The airline flying between Livingstone and Jo'burg apparently is a South African airline with a pretty good track record, so that has eased my mind a bit about flying in on the same day as my departure. The real issue for me in terms of missing the flights back to the US are not so much "could we get back home?" as they are "could we get back home in first or business class?" which are the frequent flyer awards we are using. (I'm 6'4, and flying 25 hours in coach would be traumatic, lol).

Thanks again,

John H.

santharamhari

John,

Other alternatives to Kings pool, if you are looking for WS long-stay discounts are: Duma Tau, Selinda, Zibalianja....(the last two are not operated by WS, but marketed by them)....these may be better alternatives compared to Chobe (which will be very crowded, as suggested in a recent trip report).....Any of the 3 camps, i mentioned will make a good alternative for you.......

Hari

jh6000

Thanks, Hari. Duma Tau is booked -- may inquire about the other two. Thanks for all of your suggestions -- they are very much appreciated.

John H.

napamatt

John

I play russian roulette every year, leaving Maun at 2 or 3, getting to Joburg late afternoon for an evening departure to Europe. Once we had engine trouble and had to put down at Gaberone for an hour, and then did make JNB in time for our VS flight to LHR. Another time we arrived JNB to find SAA on strike, at which point our delta award tickets were of little value to us. If I had the time, I would definitely spend a night in Joburg just to be safe, but I don't so I continue to play russian roulette.

Marksafari17

jh6000
What is Chobe Game Camp?

sundowner

I also took a same-day flight from Maun to Johannesburg to fly home that evening. Our flight was late leaving Maun (which I understand is typical of Botswana Air) and we did make it to Joburg in time. We only had about 15 minutes until boarding time and I don't like cutting it that close. Next time I will probably spend the night in Joburg. Especially if I'm using FF miles.

Cindy

jh6000

Thanks, all.

Marksafari17, here's a link for Chobe Game Lodge (it's a lodge rather than a camp):
http://www.chobegamelodge.com/Exclus...-botswana.html

I really will have to do some thinking re: flying in to Jo'burg one night early.

One question: would you shorten Chobe Game camp by one night (2 nights instead of 3) and stay two nights at Vic Falls (or 1 night if we leave a day early for Jo'burg)? Thoughts welcomed.

John H.

santharamhari

Yes, good ol' Air-Botswana.

I think, for next year...some other airlines are going to get the Joburg-Maun route....so hopefully, fingers crossed!!!

Hari

520

We may live to regret it, but we had to make the same choice about the 6 a.m. flight from capetown to Maun--and went instead for the 13:30 flight arriving at 16:00--if all goes like clockwork--which supposedly rarely happens. With that arrival time the liklihood of getting to camp in time for the evening drive was unlikely, and our TA advised us not to do it and to stay overnight in Maun instead--which is what we're doing. We're staying at Crocodile Camp which is about 12 K outside of Maun, and the owners are new and young--and it's supposed to be quite charming. To be honest, $$$ played into it too--it just was hard to decide to pay $900 for dinner and the morning drive...but, as I said, we may live to regret it. (My TA knows the owners of Crocodile Camp and did give it a good recommendation)


one and gave up one night in

jh6000

Thanks, Hari and 520.

We have decided to fly all the way from Cape Town to Kwetsani in one day. Our traveling group of four people just decided we wanted to get settled on safari asap. Also, catching the 6am flight from Cape Town will get us prepared for the first early morning safari wake up call at Kwetsani the next day.

We also decided to take Chobe Game Lodge instead of Kings Pool -- $3000 a couple for three nights at KP versus Chobe Game Camp just seemed like too great a difference in cost to us.

Finally, we'll do the one night at Livingstone and take a 1:35pm flight to Joburg on the day of our international departure at 7:20pm, arriving in Jo'burg at 3:15pm. This gives us a 4-hour safety window before our international flights (including the ability to take a later flight if this one gets canceled for some reason).

Thanks again to everyone for all of your helpful input.

I'll be back with questions about planning our 8 days in Cape Town and surrounding area prior to the safari.

Thanks and happy travels.

John H.

santharamhari

John,

I dont know if you are into adventure activities, but, the white water rafting experiences at Livingstone are fantastic....

Hari

jh6000

Thanks, Hari. Now that the itinerary is set, I can delve more fully into what "enhancements" we might add along the way. Your suggestions (and those from others) are certainly welcome and appreciated. Do you think ,with only one night in Livingstone, that we'd have time to do a rafting trip (and would it be best to do the afternoon we arrive from Chobe or the morning before we take off for Jo'burg (leave Livingstone around 1:30pm) to catch flights back to the US?

Thanks.

John H.

santharamhari

Hi John,

My assumption was you were doing two nights in Livingstone. With only one night.......very difficult to do the rafting, john.....

It is atleast a half day trip (minimum) starting in the morning.

What i did in a two night stay at Songwe village in 2005......Zambezi sunset cruise the first evening on "The African Queen". Next day, left rafting the entire day....evening, wanted to relax so did a short drive to the wildlife park (dont recommend doing that, as you are doing many nice wildlife camps on your trip)....went to see the falls on our final morning.....

Hari

jh6000

Thanks, Hari. Would you (and any others who care to comment suggest changing from our current itinerary (3 days at Chobe Game Lodge, 1 at Royal Livingstone) to spend 2 nights at each location?

I am getting the sense that such much be wise both to take advantage of more days in a new location with new activities, and also just to make sure that the end of our 10-day Botswana/Vic Falls safari is more relacxing than rushed.

Any thoughts/comments are welcome.

Thanks so much,

John H.

santharamhari

John,

That depends on how much you care about the safari portion of your trip. Personally, i wouldn't trade a single safari game drive for anything else........upto you, really.

Hari

jh6000

Hi,

I wanted to thank everyone for helping me to finalize my Botswana/Vic Falls itinerary for next June. Four of us are traveling together and we have finalized the safari part of our trip as follows:
- 3 nights at Kwetsani Camp
- 3 nights at Chitabe Camp
- 2 nights at the Chobe Game Lodge
- 2 nights at the Royal Livingstone (Vic Falls)

I worked with John Davies at www.safaris.com in Bainbridge Island, Washington, and he has been very responsive from the start. He put together an initial itinerary and adjusted it several times based on my whims and ideas (much of which was shaped by feedback from this forum). He always provided the cost/benefit for the changes I wanted to consider, which made the choices easier to make. I would definitely recommend John at www.safaris.com to others.

International air tickets have been issued and I plunked down a 20% deposit for our safaris today, so it has all moved one step closer to reality.

I will look forward in the near future to your thoughts and ideas on Cape Town, once I have done some of my own research and formulated some ideas.

Thanks, again, for all of your help.

John H.

santharamhari

Looks like a good trip, John.......now with 2 nights in LVI, must do the white water rafting..... we were booked by our Lodge to do the white water trip, using Bundu adventures located in Livingstone....we had a fantastic guide with super guiding and instructions and our raft didnt topple even once!!! (i think his name is Tembo or Temba- can't remember)

One thing to note- it is a very tough climb out of the gorge at the end of the rafting trip.....but, an adventure activity in itself....will get those calf muscles active!!!

Hari